Engine temps.

[04FX4]

Ok so when I tow my travel trailer, I have been monitoring my engine temps and CH temps on my gryphon. My CH temps are higher then the coolant temps by about 12 degrees. When on the flats I run about 200 and going up hills it will go up to about 216 on the coolant temps. I am concerned but was wondering what other have seen while towing. My gauge on the dash never goes above the half way mark which makes me think everything is normal but the gryphon has me thinking about it. My thermostat is a 195 and my trailers weight empty is about 4000lbs. Should I be worried or is this normal. I am going on a 2 week trip and dont want to have any problems on the way.

[88Racing]

Ok so when I tow my travel trailer, I have been monitoring my engine temps and CH temps on my gryphon. My CH temps are higher then the coolant temps by about 12 degrees. When on the flats I run about 200 and going up hills it will go up to about 216 on the coolant temps. I am concerned but was wondering what other have seen while towing. My gauge on the dash never goes above the half way mark which makes me think everything is normal but the gryphon has me thinking about it. My thermostat is a 195 and my trailers weight empty is about 4000lbs. Should I be worried or is this normal. I am going on a 2 week trip and dont want to have any problems on the way.

Normal.

The ECT is an inferred reading from the CHT. The ECT does run 10 degrees cooler.

Lars

[04FX4]

So are the temps I am seeing normal as well?

[88Racing]

So are the temps I am seeing normal as well?

They seem normal.

Write these down on a piece of paper and put it in your glove box.
From i.ride.suzuki on f150online.

Unsafe temps.

ECT=220
CHT=240
TFT=215

A CHT of 258 will send the truck into failsafe limp home mode.

Hope this helps.

Lars

[Jackpine]

I agree with Lars 100%. When I tow my trailer up a long hill (like the passes in the Colorado Rockies, or the 8000 foot climb we'll be doing tomorrow when we take our 3600# trailer up to Mt Graham here in AZ), I regularly see 214-216 on the CHT. I simply don't monitor the ECT, since it's inferred. And, like you, my dash temperature gauge NEVER moves above "slightly below the halfway mark".

If you want a real thrill, monitor the oil temperature (if you have that capability). I did for a while, but it was bad for my nerves, so I quit. :)

- Jack

[BlackSTX]

I'd hate to imagine what the oil temps looks like,:eek: I never looked, but will have to when I get mine back.
Also, I didn't realize the ECT was actually inferred.... interesting.

[Jackpine]

I'd hate to imagine what the oil temps looks like,:eek: I never looked, but will have to when I get mine back.
Also, I didn't realize the ECT was actually inferred.... interesting.

Yes, the whole ECT thing IS interesting, since we used to have coolant temperature probes into the coolant system (I remember having to replace one once when my engine overheated, ruining it).

But, they had a kind of "fatal" flaw. If the coolant went too low or boiled to the extent they were no longer immersed in liquid, they'd transmit nonsense values. The CHT temperature probe doesn't have these problems, since it simply warms up with the metal in the heads and sends (or passes) a voltage that can be interpreted as temperature. Since the coolant temperature has a clear relationship to the CHT, one can be inferred from the other.

I honestly don't know why we don't just see CHT on the dash gauge and be happy, except that years of the other reading are too hard to let go of.

The ECT dash gauge is really pretty poor in my opinion. About all it's good for is the "warning" that makes it swing to full hot when your engine is going into "limp home mode". It sure does not give you much "incremental" information on temperature changes.

The oil temperature is volatile as hell. I've seen it in the 245 degree range at high RPMs. And, I know from previous experience in an old Mercury, that it has a cooling effect on the engine too. If you let the oil get low, the engine will run hot. In that vehicle, the first symptom of low oil (it was on a long trip from Florida to Arizona when I was reassigned) was a gradually increasing coolant temperature. (I should have been more careful about checking the oil at each fillup).

- Jack

[BlackSTX]

Jack, I have to agree, the ECT gauges are very inefficient. They are not really a true gauge anymore at all, merely a visual toy that amounts to an equivalent of an idiot light. As one of the techs had commented, as long as it remains in a specified operating range, it usually just reads at one set position on the gauge. I suspect this was mostly done since many people today are highly incompetent when it comes to mechanical items and would be returning to the dealership every other day concerned about what the gauges were reading.

Jaguar went to this type of gauge too. They even updated they old gauge in some models to this newer type of system. If you needed to replace your sending unit, the "new" updated part now came as a kit that included a small harness which contained a resistor which then made the old gauge work more like the gauges in newer vehicles.

Unfortunately, I'm think they use a similar type of gauge for oil pressure readings too. I recall how my old Pontiac Sunbird had real gauges that you could see any and all fluctuations in pressure, voltage, and temperature, no matter how small they might be.

[06KingRanch]

Here are the max's i've seen while towing.

ECT 234
CHT 250
EOT 287
TFT 229
IAT 162

I've since installed a Troyer trans cooler, and now my max TFT was 202 on my last trip....and it is usually in the 175 range.

Running all Amsoil oils.

[Jackpine]

Wow! You WERE running hot. The transmission fluid temp was causing fairly rapid breakdown of the fluid. Good call putting in the new cooler. Did you have any kind of a transmission cooler before?

Also, you were only 8 degrees below the Failsafe Mode temperature on your CHT. This may relate to your recent post in the other thread.

How much weight are you towing? What engine do you have and what is your gear ratio?

- Jack

[408F150]

I hit 235 on my TFT gauge towing my toy hauler (was dry and weighed around 6500#) home from LA when I first bought it. This was going up the grapevine in southern cali in 95* heat with 3.73s on 35" tires. I've since upgraded to 4.56s and haven't seen it go about 208 (and now when I tow it's loaded and closer to 8000#) . I purchased a Troyer trans cooler but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to mount and plumb it:bangwall: I'm sure it will help even more

I have the Troyer dual e-fan and they have kept my ECT to 208 max, so they seem to help a LOT when towing. If anyone is having engine temp problems I highly recommend them or a similar setup. The wiring is daunting which is the only downside to them. I build custom in-home movie theaters and it even gave me a few head scratching moments.

Also, if you're running a constant 200* TFT, that seems a little on the high side. Even with just my stock cooler I'm usually between 165 and 180 during average interstate towing.

[06KingRanch]

Wow! You WERE running hot. The transmission fluid temp was causing fairly rapid breakdown of the fluid. Good call putting in the new cooler. Did you have any kind of a transmission cooler before?

Also, you were only 8 degrees below the Failsafe Mode temperature on your CHT. This may relate to your recent post in the other thread.

How much weight are you towing? What engine do you have and what is your gear ratio?

- Jack

Trailer is about 7000 lbs
5.4 with 3.73 rear end
It has the stock tow package, so yes it has the stock cooler. I hooked the Troyer into the return line, so i still have the stock cooler as well.
And yes i was hot...only did one trip and ordered and installed the Troyer and changed the eng, trans, rear diff, and washed out the rad....all good now:2thumbs:

[408F150]

I've heard that running both coolers in series causes an unsafe drop in ATF pressure in an electronically controllers trans, can anyone else either confirm or deny this?

[Jackpine]

I hit 235 on my TFT gauge towing my toy hauler (was dry and weighed around 6500#) home from LA when I first bought it. This was going up the grapevine in southern cali in 95* heat with 3.73s on 35" tires. I've since upgraded to 4.56s and haven't seen it go about 208 (and now when I tow it's loaded and closer to 8000#) . I purchased a Troyer trans cooler but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to mount and plumb it:bangwall: I'm sure it will help even more

I have the Troyer dual e-fan and they have kept my ECT to 208 max, so they seem to help a LOT when towing. If anyone is having engine temp problems I highly recommend them or a similar setup. The wiring is daunting which is the only downside to them. I build custom in-home movie theaters and it even gave me a few head scratching moments.

Also, if you're running a constant 200* TFT, that seems a little on the high side. Even with just my stock cooler I'm usually between 165 and 180 during average interstate towing.

I'm in the 150-170 TFT range on the interstate with my stock 3.73 gears and stock 32 inch tires too. With 35 inch tires, you were really "undergeared", probably an effective ratio of around 3.40! To get back the "stock" performance, you needed about 4.10 gears and going to 4.56 gears has really made it easy on your transmission. I'm pleased to see how much effect that had.

What are you doing for load leveling/equalizing?

I'm interested in all this because of another member's situation (his screenname is TXWolf), and he's pulling a similar load. You two may want to talk. I'm going to direct him to this thread, because I think he could use some help, and, I think you can give it to him.

I'm sorry I don't have any idea about having two coolers in series being bad. There WILL be a pressure head drop, but is it unsafe? I don't know. 06KingRanch seems ok with it. Any "Techs" out there who have an opinion? And, I'm sorry I don't know anything that would help you mount and plumb the new cooler, 408. :shrug:

06KingRanch, please feel free to give TXWolf some thoughts too.

You two are the experts, by virtue of experience! :thumbs up yellow:

Maybe we need a "Towing" forum!

- Jack

[408F150]

I'm using a Reese 800tw/10,000gw Anti-Sway WD hitch (the kind that use break pads inside the WD bar brackets for the anti sway), which seems to work very well. I specifically chose my gearing to put me around 2100 rpm @ 55 mph with the OD locked out. I've geared and modified my truck as much as possible to keep me from having to buy a 250/350 since once you hit 8000#, 150's really start to get tapped out. They can tow it, but it's not fun. Gearing and cooling seem to be the two most substantial ways to make towing easier once you start hitting the 150's limits. My manual says I have a 9100# tow limit, but I'd never, ever pull that much weight in stock form. Next on my list is brakes in case my trailer, God forbid, decides to lock up or lose it's breaks one day.

[Jackpine]

408F150 - I have to apologize to you! I've noticed, now that these threads were moved into this category, that you've been answering my questions all along and I just didn't remember. Sorry!

So, You DO have some extra suspension on the rear? And, reading more carefully, it does make sense.

I think, though, with these loads, I'd take the whole mess to a scales and get the weight on each axle checked. It's pretty cheap insurance.

- Jack

[88Racing]

I'm using a Reese 800tw/10,000gw Anti-Sway WD hitch (the kind that use break pads inside the WD bar brackets for the anti sway), which seems to work very well. I specifically chose my gearing to put me around 2100 rpm @ 55 mph with the OD locked out. I've geared and modified my truck as much as possible to keep me from having to buy a 250/350 since once you hit 8000#, 150's really start to get tapped out. They can tow it, but it's not fun. Gearing and cooling seem to be the two most substantial ways to make towing easier once you start hitting the 150's limits. My manual says I have a 9100# tow limit, but I'd never, ever pull that much weight in stock form. Next on my list is brakes in case my trailer, God forbid, decides to lock up or lose it's breaks one day.

Nice hitch!
I use the equalizer myself. Looked at the reese ones like that but for what I do with trailers the anti sway was a good option but not needed. I kick myself now and then that I should have gotten it.
I have a beefy car trailer rated at 12K that I use from time to time to haul cars for the dealers. The trailer itself is at around 2800.
My buddy called me up one night wondering if I could help him haul one of his broken down handy man vans back to the shop. I said sure. Worst thing I could have ever said. The van was full of the works: tools, materials, and ladders. I know that thing alone was pushing more than 6K. But being a good friend I used the winch and got it on the trailer. To this day I still wonder if I ever did any damage to that 03 f150's tranny. I pulled it to his shop from about 80 miles away the tranny temp never really got above 220. Towed it with od off. But the amazing part was I really didn't know I was pulling anything until it came to the hills.
That old truck of mine was a guinea pig for dakota digital. They outfitted it with a pillar gauge pod that had 3 holes. They threw in their digital gauges and away I went. I only had to stop in every once in awhile to get it looked at. They put in a voltage one, a ect one, and tft one.
Both the ect and tft were tapped and probed into the components. Every once in awhile they would change out the voltage with engine oil temp. They had one gauge that was a combo one, press a button and you could get another reading from a different source. I just thought I would mention the gauges, so know one was thinking about the tft on an edge because it wasn't available.

No edge or gryphon was used or tuner period. But it still felt like that 5.4 2V with 3.73's + stock tires still had power to pull plenty more.

Lars

[408F150]

Anti-Sway has saved me many, many time. With how tall toy haulers are (I think mine is 11' 6"?), wind and semi truck gusts will whip you like crazy. It also saved me one time when one of my 4 ratcheting straps I had my quads tied down with snapped. I had 2 400# quads sliding around the trailer and assumed it was the wind. I could feel the anti-sway fighting it, I don't even want to know how squirrelly it would have been without it.

[Jackpine]

I think anti-sway is important insurance too, especially if you're towing a high profile trailer. That's a huge wind sail back there and it doesn't take too much in the way of sudden crosswinds to have it push you all over the place.

- Jack

[TXWolf]

A question about the anti-sway bars ... When I pulled my new trailer from the RV dealer to the house, I'm assuming that the loud creaking sound that was going on was from the anti-sway bars? Is there any reason why I shouldn't put a little lithium grease on the bars, to cut down on the friction/noise? :shrug:

[soutthpaw]

A question about the anti-sway bars ... When I pulled my new trailer from the RV dealer to the house, I'm assuming that the loud creaking sound that was going on was from the anti-sway bars? Is there any reason why I shouldn't put a little lithium grease on the bars, to cut down on the friction/noise? :shrug:

don't grease the anti sway bar as (most) use friction to control sway,

[zeuss]

My equalizer bars would creak and there was a hole at the top for oil to be added, but like said before, sway control usually works off friction. The ones I had were Reese, but I think nowadays they are incorporating equalizer and sway in one setup. So be careful where you lube. Maybe talk to manufacturer.

[Jackpine]

My Equil-i-zer brand hitch says it's OK to grease the friction surfaces. It says doing this is "optional" and will not diminish the sway control properties, and, it might quiet the hitch.

If you notice the pressure that's exerted on the brackets, I think that's what does the most for sway control.

But the noise IS kind of nerve wracking at first. Sounds like something is breaking, doesn't it?

- Jack

[408F150]

Depending on what type of anti-sway it is, the creaking will be normal. If it's a dual-cam anti-sway, it shouldn't be groaning too loudly. If it's a friction type anti sway (which 90% are), the groaning is the result of metal parts and friction pads under high tension sliding on each other. You can grease the sockets in your yoke that the bars rest in, but anything from the ball back can't be greased too heavily. If you over-lube any of the anti-sway stuff you're just de-frictioning your friction activated anti sway. There's 2 types of friction, static (grip when stationary) and kinetic (grip when moving). The friction the anti-sway relies on is kinetic friction. The part of the groaning that can eliminated comes from reducing the intensity of the force unleashed when switching from static to kinetic mode by lightly greasing the resting points of your sway system (where parts sit when going in a straight line). This gets them from resting to moving more smoothly but doesn't make the amount of grip on the surfaces suffer too much

[Jackpine]

Depending on what type of anti-sway it is, the creaking will be normal. If it's a dual-cam anti-sway, it shouldn't be groaning too loudly. If it's a friction type anti sway (which 90% are), the groaning is the result of metal parts and friction pads under high tension sliding on each other. You can grease the sockets in your yoke that the bars rest in, but anything from the ball back can't be greased too heavily. If you over-lube any of the anti-sway stuff you're just de-frictioning your friction activated anti sway. There's 2 types of friction, static (grip when stationary) and kinetic (grip when moving). The friction the anti-sway relies on is kinetic friction. The part of the groaning that can eliminated comes from reducing the intensity of the force unleashed when switching from static to kinetic mode by lightly greasing the resting points of your sway system (where parts sit when going in a straight line). This gets them from resting to moving more smoothly but doesn't make the amount of grip on the surfaces suffer too much

Right! Sounds like you have a fair grasp of Physics! :bow: Lubrication has to decrease the coefficient of friction, but I suspect the "force" component overshadows that by a great deal. (I would not want to have my finger between the bar and the "brackets". I think my finger would simply become "grease". :throwup:)

- Jack

[hayjayhorses]

In my 2000 F550 7.3, 4r100, 4.88, 4" turbo back gross, stock fuel no chip, gross weight about 40,000 pounds. My gauges have a high temp recall feature.

I have a temp probe in the thermostat housing. On a hot summer day pushing a big hill it will get to 218, with the stock exhaust I got it to 225. on the flat it will stay about 190 (my foot is still in it).

I had a temp probe in the oil cooler port, under a load the oil would run a consitant 20 deggres hotter then coolant. I Have recalled that temp at 240 once.

I have 2 tranny temp probes one in the pressure port (tranny case) and the other in the line comming out of the tranny with my new tranny (Billet multi disk, shift kit, Long tru cool max tranny cooler) in last 15k miles the highest case temp I have seen is 195 and the ECT was at 215 on a 4 mile hill fully loaded, generaly the case temp will run 140 with an empty trailer (17,200# gross) and about 150-160 loaded. The temp comming out of the tourque converter will get to to 200 in town with a hevy load but cools right down to the same temp as the case shortly after the converter is locked up.

I also have a fan on my tranny cooler that turns on @ 160 case temp or by a swith, I turn it on in town with a load, it works very well. I mounted the tranny cooler (long LPD4739) in front of the ac condenser, and an electric fan is mounted in front of the cooler I cut out some of the grill, I will post some pics later.

With the stock tranny and cooler I could easly get the case temp to 220and line temp to 240 and it would take a long time to get to under 200.