Towing and transmission issue

[RGSMDNR]

I have an 07 f150, 5.4 supercrew...

I tow a 25' travel trailer that weighs about 5000lbs. My issue im having is maintaining highway speeds when the tranny heats up. Its fine around 150 or so... but anything above that the truck seems to run like a dog. It doesnt matter if im using the towing tune or running stock. To be honest i dont run the towing anymore because it doesnt have any top end. It seems to run better stock. Any thoughts on why the truck doesnt make any power when the tranny heats up?

thx

[88Racing]

How many miles on the truck and last time tranny fluid changed?
Also what's the highest temp the fluid has gotten to?

Lars

[RGSMDNR]

There are about 34000 kilometers on the truck. Ive never had a tranny service done. I think the highest temp Ive seen is about 200.

[88Racing]

If you have done a lot of pulling with the fluid from the factory I would suggest getting it changed.
Probably a synthetic like royal purple might do a better job than motorcraft if you pull a lot.
But just in case I wll post a note on the mod board.
200 is getting close to break down temp. Let me find that number and get back to you.

Lars

[RGSMDNR]

I guess im just disappointed in the lack of power this truck has while towing. I wasnt sure if it had anything to do with the tranny temps or not. I dont pull all that often, but when i do its just frustrating trying to maintain highway speeds without having to step on it every so often to get it back up to speed. Would the hotter tranny temp be robbing that much power??

[88Racing]

I am going to have to try and draw Bill's attention to this issue.

Lars

[Jackpine]

RGSMDNR, I'm going to move this thread into the Towing forum when I finish this reply.

Tell me though, what rear end do you have on your truck? And, is it equipped with the factory tow package? I'm guessing you have 3.73 gears with the tow package, but I just wanted confirmation.

Now, as you probably know, I tow too, not as much weight as you (about 3600# in the trailer) but by the time we factor in all the other crap that's in the bed plus the bed cap, I'm easily pulling 4000#. I've pulled this all over the Colorado Rockies and over some passes above 11,000 ft and up grades over 7% for 7-10 mile distances. I almost always have to do this pulling in 2nd gear, and the transmission fluid will get up to abut 220F. I can maintain 60-65 mph doing this, but my engine is screaming at 4000 rpm.

There's no way I can do this in 3rd gear. It simply does not have the power in that gear range. I have to be in 2nd. If the transmission doesn't "hunt" between 2nd and 3rd, I'll usually leave it in Drive (with the overdrive turned off). If there's any tendency to shift up and down though, I lock it in 2nd.

I find as soon as the rpms increase above 2500, the TFT starts going up. If you set the shifter in 2nd, there is a power reduction (probably for slippery starts) that is applied until you reach a certain speed. This was discussed in another thread quite a while ago. Supposedly, this reduction is not applied as long as the shifter is in Drive.

The towing tunes are designed to give you more low end torque and are not really designed for high speed torque. Since I try not to exceed 65 mph (about 108 kph, I think), this is not much of a factor for me.

I have not noticed any power reduction caused by high fluid temperatures though.

I try to not let the speed fall off in a hill climb, so I don't have to make it back up, and I've never seen the transmission drop into 1st. I monitor "Comm Gear" when towing and the torque converter is usually always locked up under these conditions too.

It's possible you MAY be expecting too much out of a 150? And, you may have a much higher "combined weight" than you realize. I know I did. When I weighed my truck trailer combination on a scale, I found I was about 60# over the weight limit for the rear axle. I've since made an adjustment to the equalizing hitch to correct this.

Somebody else recently said somewhere that about the most you can "comfortably tow" with a 150 is about 5000#. I know there are people who tow more, and I know having higher rear end gearing will help with that too.

I can't give you any more to address your concern than this. And again, I've never seen the pulling power drop off with higher TFTs.

- Jack

[88Racing]

Here's a thread with some good info for everyone.

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/showthread.php?t=828&highlight=temperature

Jack has posted some good numbers in it.

Lars:2thumbs:

[RGSMDNR]

Yes im sure I have the 3.73s. Next time I tow Ill hit a scale and see what the actual weight is. Maybe I am expecting too much but even on level ground I find the truck slowing down and am having to step on it (to shift it in 2nd) to get back up to speed.

[TXWolf]

RGSMDNR, I recently bought a 36' travel trailer. When it's loaded with everything we just HAVE to have for camping,:giggle:, I'm sure the weight is around 8000 lbs. We just came back from a trip to the Texas Hill Country, and I am SO impressed with the pulling power of my 2008 F150. I was able to maintaing 55-65mph very easily. Now, when I hit a long, gradual uphill grade .... I'd have to mash the pedal, the rpm's would jump up to 4000-4200, but I never felt like the truck COULDN'T handle the weight.

I know that my TFT has been around the 230 degree mark area a couple of times, so I'm going to flush the fluid and go with full synthetic. But even with the TFT up quite a bit more than yours is indicating, I still had plenty of pulling power.

Just my :2cents: :2thumbs:

http://www.fordf150.net/photos/data/500/IMG00168.jpg

http://www.fordf150.net/photos/data/500/P10100056.JPG

[Longshot270]

I'm guessing that you have the 5.4 right? Many of the power curves I've seen show that the engine's peak torque is somewhere around 3000, after that it starts dropping off(slowly though). And yes I admit I could be a little off on this.

Also do you pull with O/D off? Some people say to not tow in O/D but my dad and many others around here have always used it and wont be convinced otherwise. My dad's truck has over 150K and he has had trouble one time but thats because he forgot he had a heavy trailer hooked up and punched it at a light. All that did was throw a code, after clearing that at a local shop it hasn't had any issues what so ever. And that is the only time that truck has ever been at an auto shop.

Another thing, all of the hot rodding auto guys I know swear by Royal purple and their trucks and tranny's have been pushed extremely hard and are still going.

just my $.02

PS: txwolf, how'd ya like pedernales falls state park?
Haha, Txwolf ignore this, didn't see you had a separate post.

[RGSMDNR]

I usually have OD off while towing unless im heading down a hill or something (being in 3rd seems to slow the truck down). I cant see how your truck can pull that 36' trailer, have the TFT hit 200+ and still maintain a good speed. My truck just cant seem to do that.

[Jackpine]

I wonder if your transmission is "slipping" under load and with the fluid hot? Is it still under warranty? If so, set it back to stock, remove the Gryphon and take it to your dealer. I think they may need to "look" at it.

I think I'd do this even if the truck is out of warranty.

This doesn't sound like something I'd like to see continue, because it could be an early sign of damage.

You should NOT be having problems pulling a 5000# load. You'll certainly know it's there, but the truck was designed to do this task.

- Jack

[RGSMDNR]

I wonder if your transmission is "slipping" under load and with the fluid hot? Is it still under warranty? If so, set it back to stock, remove the Gryphon and take it to your dealer. I think they may need to "look" at it.

I think I'd do this even if the truck is out of warranty.

This doesn't sound like something I'd like to see continue, because it could be an early sign of damage.

You should NOT be having problems pulling a 5000# load. You'll certainly know it's there, but the truck was designed to do this task.

- Jack

Im not even running the gryphon anymore because I dont think it makes a difference stock or my custom tow tune. The truck is still under warranty, but im not sure they will do anything if i tell them that it has zero power when the tranny heats up.

[Jackpine]

I'd sure give it a try. The more I think about your symptoms, the more it smells to me like early indications of a transmission problem.

- Jack

[TXWolf]

I'm with Jack ... I'd take it in for service. You own a TRUCK, and it's made to haul stuff! :D If you're not able to pull a trailer that is well within the limits of what Ford says it can tow, it needs to be fixed. Plain and simple. :yesnod:

[RGSMDNR]

Alright, next time I take it in for service Ill see if they will look at the tranny.

thanks all

[04FX4]

You should have no problem towing. I tow a trailer that weights about the same. I have no problems towing on flat or even holding the speed limits going up hills. I tow with OD off and I have up graded to a larger cooler. I have 40Ks on my truck and just serviced the tranny. The fluid looked and smelled like the new stuff but I tow a fair bit and I like to be sure that everything is good.Let us know what you find.

[RGSMDNR]

Im heading out camping this weekend so Ill see how it does. Ill check my tranny cooler to make sure its clean and working properly.

I dont tow with OD on, I usually have it off unless im heading down a hill. Ill see if i cant check the fluid as well to make sure it isnt too burnt. I wouldnt think it should be tho, I dont tow all that often.

[RGSMDNR]

Well i ran my towing tune and i must have something wrong with my head. The truck ran awesome. The tranny temp didnt get over 180 and it was about 33 degrees F outside.

I will have to get Bill to look at the 1-2 shift and 3-2 shift, seems a little hard under heavy acceleration.

[88Racing]

Well i ran my towing tune and i must have something wrong with my head. The truck ran awesome. The tranny temp didnt get over 180 and it was about 33 degrees F outside.

I will have to get Bill to look at the 1-2 shift and 3-2 shift, seems a little hard under heavy acceleration.

Brrrrrr! 33 F!

Your tranny shouldn't overheat at that temp!
I still think Bill needs to look at this also.

Lars

[RGSMDNR]

Brrrrrr! 33 F!

Your tranny shouldn't overheat at that temp!
I still think Bill needs to look at this also.

Lars

My bad.. I mean 33c not F.

We were camping for my buddies stag.. didnt get much sleep. :cool_beans:

[Jackpine]

Your transmission seems to be running just fine if you don't see temperatures above 180 at 91 F. The "hard shifts" - are these at part throttle? If so, Bill might need to adjust something. If they're at WOT, then maybe you could dial back the shift "firmness" a bit.

- Jack

[tjacobs1]

I'm glad to hear that the towing tune seemed to provide a better result this trip. I have tried a bunch of different options this summer towing since I got our travel trailer and I thought I'd share some ideas on what has worked best for me with you from my experience. I tow a 31' Coachman Captiva ultralight with my 06 supercrew 4x4 6.5' bed with 5.4 & 3.73's & 38k miles. I live in TN so basically tow at sea level or slightly above. The only mods I have are a gryphon and an MBRP exhaust. The difference between towing my camper stock vs. with the gryphon and exhaust on level 2 is extremely noticeable. The camper weighs ~5,700 dry and probably closer to 7,000 when we head out to go camping. The biggest difference I noticed with the tune is the improved shifting. I hated the stock shifting when it would downshift so hard at 60mph to 2nd gear. When the truck did that I'd just wanted to let off the gas and get back to a normal gear no matter how slow I'd be going at the top of the hill. I usually baby my truck and I hated having no idea how that was impacting my transmission/motor. I tried everything from varying my speed to using O/D to turning it off prior to hitting a hill or after I started up a hill. I just wanted it to pull the hill in in a gear at about 3k rpms as I felt that was the easiest on my truck and really could care less if I was only going 50 at the top of a hill. I was disappointed with my trucks towing ability prior to buying the gryphon and thought I had purchased too much trailer for an F150 even though Coachmen advertised pulling that exact trailer with a stock Ford Expedition. (I picked that trailer as I thought it would be easy on the truck compared to the 9k # fifth wheeler the dealer was trying to convince me buy b/c my F150 was rated to tow 9,100 lbs). Now that I've got the Gryphon all of that is behind me. On flat ground I can tow with the O/D on without any hunting and on most gradual hills it will just shift gears smoothly (from about 1800 rpms to 2300 rpms) and pull the hill without a problem. If I'm going up a long/steep hill I'll let it shift to the 2300 rpms and then turn the O/D off. The rpms climb to 3000 and I can pull any hill at 65mph. On a recent trip from Bristol back home I pulled up the plateau which is about a 6-7mile nonstop incline at 65mph without any issue. Tranny temp got up to 186 and it was 92 degrees. I'm not sure why, but if I let it shift up one gear to around 2300-2400 rpms and then turn off the O/D to get the rpms up to about 3000 - 3200 it pulls much better than if I just go from 1800 rpms or so and turn off the O/D. I'm sure someone on here can explain that, but I don't have an explanation for that.

I just got my custom 87 towing tune from Bill as well as my custom 93 towing tune. I'll let you know how those work as soon as I get a chance to tow the trailer which should be in the next couple of weeks or so. If the custom 87 performance tune is any indication I will be very happy.

[Power Hungry]

Dan,

Not sure if you caught it but I've got the update files on the server ready for download. I addressed the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts as indicated. Let me know if it works better.

Take care.

[RGSMDNR]

Dan,

Not sure if you caught it but I've got the update files on the server ready for download. I addressed the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts as indicated. Let me know if it works better.

Take care.

Thanks Bill. I havent been running my gryphon for a while but now since towing season is here... Ive updated my unit and test it out shortly.

thanks again,

Dan