Difference between PMT1 and PMT3

[907DAVE]

My truck has the PMT3 PCM and the tunes are for PMT1. I was considering getting the Romulator Emulator cable, but was told that it will not work unless the PCM code matches the the tunes.

What would it take to "convert" current programming to the PMT3 for use with the emulator?

Or would it be easier to re flash the PCM?

[cleatus12r]

Have Bill reflash the PCM to PMT1.

You were told correctly about the emulator. You HAVE to have the same PCM code.

[907DAVE]

So .....its not worth it to use the PMT3 stuff?

[cleatus12r]

You'd have to buy different definition files. I can tell you from experience that a VRAA6 (PMT1) binary will not work with a VRAA7 (PMT2/3) definition and vice-versa.

Since you're using PMT1 tunes and plan on emulation, you will be much better off just shipping your current PCM to Bill (since the truck doesn't run anyway), having him reflash it to PMT1, and email you the PMT1 emulation definition. If you'd like, I can make your current binary the required 32K size for the romulator.

[907DAVE]

You'd have to buy different definition files. I can tell you from experience that a VRAA6 (PMT1) binary will not work with a VRAA7 (PMT2/3) definition and vice-versa.

Since you're using PMT1 tunes and plan on emulation, you will be much better off just shipping your current PCM to Bill (since the truck doesn't run anyway), having him reflash it to PMT1, and email you the PMT1 emulation definition. If you'd like, I can make your current binary the required 32K size for the romulator.

I already have the VRAA7 definition's so I was just curious. I would like to send Bill my PCM, but with his current situation I am concerned that I will have the motor finished before the PCM is. I would hate to put a "rush" on it as I am sure he will be swamped when business resumes. I will just have to ask and see what he can do for me.

Well come to think of it, I don't even have my chip anymore, so it might not matter anyways.:whistle1:

[907DAVE]

and email you the PMT1 emulation definition. If you'd like, I can make your current binary the required 32K size for the romulator.

Whats this about?

Could you give me a play-by-play on the emulator operation?

[cleatus12r]

Sure!

The binary code in the Ford EEC-V PCM is made up of 4 "banks" of memory. They are numbered 0,1,8, and 9.

The emulator uses a 32K-size file that is made up of bank 8 of the binary code in the PCM (where most of the maps are). When using the emulator, the truck operates on banks 0,1, and 9 while the emulator supplies bank 8.

The definition file for the emulator is also different than the standard definition so that it has the capability to change bank 8 inputs to the emulator.

So, the 224K files that you have for your tunes need to be broken down into a 32K file that the emulator definition can use.

The "romulator" is unable to operate all 4 bank changes.

[907DAVE]

Awesome.

Is there things that you cannot change when using the emulator because of it only using the 1 bank of inputs?

How does the emulator work, can you make changes "on the fly", or is it more like make a change, load file into emulator, and continue?

What does it take to change file to the 32K size?

[cleatus12r]

Awesome.

Is there things that you cannot change when using the emulator because of it only using the 1 bank of inputs?

Yeah, there are a whole lot of things that you can't change....namely the "parameters" and a whole lot of "functions". Most everything in the "maps" section can be changed.

How does the emulator work, can you make changes "on the fly", or is it more like make a change, load file into emulator, and continue? Yes, you can make changes on the fly. There are times that you will get a "bump" or momentary loss of PCM (stumble or stall) depending on what you change and when you change it.

What does it take to change file to the 32K size?Hex editing software like HEX WORKSHOP. Then you simply select the 32768 bytes that you need (address E000 to 16000) and paste them into a new sheet, save it, and load it into the emulator definition.

Hope this helps.

[907DAVE]

Is the software included with the emulator, or a separate buy?

[cleatus12r]

Actually you don't need any software. You attach the emulator adapter to the PCM (where the chip goes), hook up the emulator (via serial/usb adapter), go up to the "Romulator" tab in Minotaur, select a COM port, and hit connect. Then you download the 32K file you made, and start the truck. You will need the emulator definition though and Bill didn't charge me for mine since it's basically the same as your existing definition but it's made to work with the emulator.

You can select a box that says "real time update", which changes stuff on the fly or you can make some changes and hit "download" again and download the changes to the emulator. The engine will die when you do this and will require a restart.

[907DAVE]

Ohh... and after you are satisfied with your program, do you have to convert it back to 224K to load it on the chip? How does this work?

[907DAVE]

Actually you don't need any software. You attach the emulator adapter to the PCM (where the chip goes), hook up the emulator (via serial/usb adapter), go up to the "Romulator" tab in Minotaur, select a COM port, and hit connect. Then you download the 32K file you made, and start the truck. You will need the emulator definition though and Bill didn't charge me for mine since it's basically the same as your existing definition but it's made to work with the emulator.

You can select a box that says "real time update", which changes stuff on the fly or you can make some changes and hit "download" again and download the changes to the emulator. The engine will die when you do this and will require a restart.

Ok, how about the HEX WORKSHOP program, included or seperate?

[cleatus12r]

Download off the internet. Free.

Yep, just paste the modified 32K binary into the 224K file and VOILA!!

[907DAVE]

Nice! Well I thought texting while driving was hard, this should take it to another level.:D

[907DAVE]

I just realized since you cannot change any of the "functions" that shift schedule adjustment is out.


DANG!

[cleatus12r]

Oh, my bad, Dave. Yes, the shift scheduling is adjustable. I had a brain fart.

Adjust to your heart's content.

[907DAVE]

SWEET!:woot:

[907DAVE]

Then you simply select the 32768 bytes that you need (address E000 to 16000) and paste them into a new sheet, save it, and load it into the emulator definition.


Am I looking at the right thing here.....




http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt274/907dave9/hex.jpg





This computer stuff is crazy.:crazy:

[cleatus12r]

Yeah. That's it.

What you need to do is delete the first 57344 bytes. Use the "edit" and "select block". Then with the selector in "dec", type in 57344 and hit "ok". Delete that block. You should start with a hex value of "27FE".

Select another block of 32768 bytes and copy that to a new hex editing window.

There's your emulation binary!


When you go back in after changing, use the original 224K binary and insert the modified 32768 bytes into the 224K program.

[907DAVE]

Ok....so bear with me here.

So after selecting and deleting 57344 bytes I am left with this.......



http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt274/907dave9/hex1.jpg




And after selecting a block of 32768 bytes and coping into a new window.........




http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt274/907dave9/hex2.jpg







Then I will save this, and that's my emulator binary?





How does someone learn this stuff? The more I ask about the more I realize how very little I think I know.:disbelief:

[cleatus12r]

'zactly right.

It starts out as a pretty tedious process but after you do it a few dozen times........:cheesy smile:

You wouldn't believe how many times I compared different files and used a hex editor to get the desired results. As long as you know how to do it now, that's all there really is to it.

Just be glad Bill doesn't encrypt his binary...we'd be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. I worked with Sniper stuff for about a year before I bought Bill's version. Sniper's encryption setup is a crock. You can't run a Romulator with it anyway.

[907DAVE]

You wouldn't believe how many times I compared different files and used a hex editor to get the desired results.



So now I am curious, can you explain this?

[cleatus12r]

I have sat in front of this computer staring at binary for longer than I care to recall back when I first started getting into this about 2 years ago. I got some stuff to read PCM memory, got some more stuff to try to disassemble the code, got a lot more stuff to actually graph out the binary values.....to no real success.

Now I use a hex editor a lot just to make different size files (for different types of chips) and for emulation. I usually rehash my tune list about once a week when I pick up something different that works better so I always have to go back and make new 32K/224K/256K binary. It's a viscious cycle.

Anyway, that's boring. :cool:

[907DAVE]

'
Anyway, that's boring. :cool:

Hardly! I think that is some pretty cool stuff, just wish I had a better understanding of all this fancy computer stuff.:D

I need to find a "Computer's For Dummy's" book...........:hehe:

[907DAVE]

I have sat in front of this computer staring at binary for longer than I care to recall back when I first started getting into this about 2 years ago. I got some stuff to read PCM memory, got some more stuff to try to disassemble the code, got a lot more stuff to actually graph out the binary values.....to no real success.

What were you expecting to find?

I am confused about the thought process behind this, why not use Minotaur to do the same thing?

[cleatus12r]

Well my original thinking was that "I can do this myself. No need to pay for something I can figure out."

Well, it turns out that I couldn't do it.....not within the next 5 years or so anyway.....so being a guy and needing everything "right now", I finally did end up buying some stuff (Sniper Delta Force) after trying to get ahold of Bill for his. Unfortunately, PHP was having the same email problems that they are still having and none of my correspondence went through so I ended up with Delta Farce.

However, knowing what I know now about the binary structuring and addressing, there is no possible way that I would have been able to figure out any of my own definitions because I would have had no clue as to how much stuff I actually would have needed to find to get where I am now.

Minotaur wasn't available to the public when I started and unfortunately I have ended up spending an extra $6,000 on something I can't use except for the chip burning function....so I have a $6K chip burning application now that is really inconvenient to use. Phoenix Flash doesn't work with the chips that are coded for my Sniper vendor (David Lott) so I have to make a calibration in Minotaur, save it, open it in Delta Force, save it, THEN finally burn it to the chip. It's a real PITA and one of these days I'll just buy a burner from Bill and start using his coded chips. It's really inconvenient to have duplicates of EVERY flippin' program on this computer.

[soutthpaw]

I'm downloading hex workshop now... have no idea how I will use it but you got me curious

[907DAVE]

Pretty wild stuff.....

[907DAVE]

When you go back in after changing, use the original 224K binary and insert the modified 32768 bytes into the 224K program.

So.......... After I am finished with the file (32k), how do I get it back into the original program?

Do I first select the 57344 bytes, cut them out of there and set them aside (new window). Then select the next block of 32768, delete them, and paste in my modified file, and then paste the first 57344 bytes back in?

Thanks

*Edit* That does not work.

[907DAVE]

Here is what I did, set the offset at 57344, then replaced the next 32768 with the modified set. Seemed to work.:skeptic:

Not sure why my first attempt(s) failed......

On a side note the Hex Editor Neo program does not seem to get along well with Minotaur.......can only use one at a time.:shrug:

Stupid computers.:smiley_roll1: