NVK4 isn't half bad for DD.

[cleatus12r]

Here's a little background:

Almost 2 years ago I purchased Sniper Delta Force tuning software and spent a ton of money on numerous "templates" (their name for "definition files"). I currently have VRAA6, VRAA7, and VNAA8 for DPC-422 boxes. I don't need them, but I initially ended up with VNAA8/NVK4 from my supplier.

The first thing I found out was the NVK4 didn't work. Great. Well, that's not what I wanted anyway so I bought the one for my present box code, VRAA7/PMT2. It worked so I just used it for a while until I learned of the almighty PMT1. So I paid another ridiculous amount of money for VRAA6.

For the last 2 years, I've pretty much worked exclusively with PMT1 for the 99.5-01 automatics....much the same as most custom tuners do.

I finally got the desire to work with NVK4 again since I have it, I paid money for it, and I was curious as to how it stacks up against the dozens of other automatic PCM codes I have driven.

Well, big surprise again, but it still didn't work. The wait to start light came on, the fuel pump ran, the WTS light went out...OK....Crank....no start. :shrug: No ICP desired during crank....well the map for ICP says that it should have some.

It just so happens that I bought a PCM from a guy on PSN the other day (unmolested NVK4) so I snagged the binary off of it, reordered it, and put it in the VNAA8 definition along with the original NVK4 binary that Sniper sent me. Well, the ICP desired table (map) showed nice, valid numbers for the non-starting binary and the known-good binary straight off of the PCM showed way wacked-out ICP values. Hmmmmm. :hmmm: Bad binary AND a junk definition file. Great. The SOI maps (high and low elevation) are also screwed up in the definition (but the binary seems ok there). :cursin:

I started tuning the fuel/SOI/APP stuff in the VKAE3 definition in Minotaur (since the addressing correlates between NVK4 and VKAE3 in the important maps and the scaling of the graphs is actually useful).

NVK4 works pretty good for daily driving. The only real complaint I have about driving it empty (just daily driving or sportin' around) is the early 3-4 upshift....but that's one of my major complaints for ANY stock 3-4 upshift speed. Easily fixed that. It's just too bad that it doesn't like my horse trailer too much...I certainly wouldn't use it for a truck that tows anything. Besides, I like my torque converter clutch to stay applied when I hit the brakes. It does keep the TCC applied on a 4-3 downshift too which is REALLY nice (the big thing I hated about PMT2 vs. PMT1).

All in all, I don't think I'd be too overly upset with running NVK4 in anything since it does work pretty dang good out of the box. I've probably put 35 miles on it so far and I have a feeling that my wife will love it. She's not a big fan of PMT1 (or the way I like my PMT1 to feel) so I had to molest the heck out of the PMT1 to make her a tune she liked to drive.

It's just unfortunate that I can't mix PMT1 and NVK4 on one chip. :hmmm:

[cleatus12r]

Before anyone goes off about my not-so-happy experience with Sniper, I must say that Chris Stajdel is a helluva guy. He's always been very courteous and punctual with upgrades or sending of different definitions. He actually sent me another VNAA8 template (but unfortunately it's also not right) today. Not that it matters. I like to use Minotaur anyhow because of the graph scaling.

Not knocking them at all....they just have a bigger fish to fry with their gasser software.

[907DAVE]

Interesting.

How many differences is there really between all the different PCM's.

I am going to guess that the largest difference would be in the shift strategies, but how about the engine stuff?

[cleatus12r]

Engine stuff....

Very little.
You're right about transmission shifting and torque converter clutch strategies.

There are those that really suck and make no sense, there are others that work OK but you can't fix them to be perfect, and then there are the ones that really work well.

The list of automatic PCMs I have driven:
MRT2 (super suck)
NVK2 (sucks)
NVK4 (not bad)
MNM0 (NVK2 wanna-be)
MNM1 (not bad)
PMT1 (awesome)
PMT2 (not bad)
PMT3 (not bad either but didn't notice a difference from PMT2)
VDH2 (suck)
VDH5 (super suck)
TDE0 (ok)
TDE1 (better)
NAW4 (absolute crap)
LKM6 (TDE1 wanna be)
YBT1 (garbage)
XLE4 (sucks)
XLE8 (not as bad as 4 but still sucks)

[cleatus12r]

For the most part, the automatic PCM calibrations are tantamount to Rod Stewart and.....uh.......


Rod Stewart.
:hehe:

The fueling and SOI changes are usually pretty minimal. The biggest changes to those maps are the normalizers.

[907DAVE]

Rod Stuart eh....:notallthere:

[Robert6401]

So, what you're saying, Cody, is that my truck is going to perform like I never imagined with a Phoenix chip since my truck has a VDH5 coded PCM? I finally had a few minutes to get to the code today.

[cleatus12r]

Yes, Bill will make that PCM you have perform like none other (actually, probably a lot like a PMT1) .

You're going to love it.

[cleatus12r]

Back to the topic. I've put about 200 miles on this NVK4 (stock as stock can be) and it sucks too.

I get tired of the 38 mph 3-4 shift with instantaneous converter apply.


I can fix it, but the stock sucks.

[907DAVE]

Damn that seems way to low to be shifting into OD......especially with the TC locked.

Probably kills the turbo also.

How low do the R's drop when it does that?

[cleatus12r]

12-1300.

I've said it before and I'll do it one more time.

If I was ever to have been in the market for a new Super Duty back in '99 or '00 I probably wouldn't have gotten one. An automatic at least and ONLY because of the way they were programmed to shift.

[Power Hungry]

The list of automatic PCMs I have driven:
MRT2 (super suck)
NVK2 (sucks)
NVK4 (not bad)
MNM0 (NVK2 wanna-be)
MNM1 (not bad)
PMT1 (awesome)
PMT2 (not bad)
PMT3 (not bad either but didn't notice a difference from PMT2)
VDH2 (suck)
VDH5 (super suck)
TDE0 (ok)
TDE1 (better)
NAW4 (absolute crap)
LKM6 (TDE1 wanna be)
YBT1 (garbage)
XLE4 (sucks)
XLE8 (not as bad as 4 but still sucks)


Cody,

If you ever need any stock calibrations, I have a whole library of every released version since the 7.3L was released.

For reference...

PMT1 --> PMT2 --> PMT3 --> CKX0

PMT2 and PMT3 have zero changes between them.

PMT3 and CKX0 have four changes:


Manual Pull-In changed from 30 MPH to 28 MPH
1-2 TV Minimum changed from 19.5 PSI to 40 PSI
Function FN103 is modified (Unknown)
Function FN1CB is modified (Unknown)


NVK4 --> VNK5 --> MNM0 --> MNM1

NVK4 and NVK5 have a significant number of changes between them.

NVK5 and MNM0 have a significant number of changes between them.

MNM0 and MNM1 have zero changes between them.


TDE0 and TDE1 have a number of undefined changes in what would be considered the "OBDII" section.

In any event, there are a number of files that have very much in common and other that have very little in common, even among the same families. It's always interesting to see which files people prefer for certain types of driving. :)

[cleatus12r]

Cody,

If you ever need any stock calibrations, I have a whole library of every released version since the 7.3L was released.

For reference...

PMT1 --> PMT2 --> PMT3 --> CKX0

PMT2 and PMT3 have zero changes between them. That's what I could tell by driving them. I'm a very intuitive driver.

PMT3 and CKX0 have four changes:


Manual Pull-In changed from 30 MPH to 28 MPH
1-2 TV Minimum changed from 19.5 PSI to 40 PSI
Function FN103 is modified (Unknown)
Function FN1CB is modified (Unknown)


NVK4 --> VNK5 --> MNM0 --> MNM1

NVK4 and NVK5 have a significant number of changes between them.

NVK5 and MNM0 have a significant number of changes between them.

MNM0 and MNM1 have zero changes between them. Really? They felt different and maybe I could attribute that opinion because of them being in different trucks.


TDE0 and TDE1 have a number of undefined changes in what would be considered the "OBDII" section. Maybe Sniper sent me the wrong (or botched) binary. :rolleyes: Not that they're bad folks, but it's happened. Actually, come to think of it, I never got to drive the TDE0 since it wouldn't shift out of first. Maybe I should look at that tonight.

In any event, there are a number of files that have very much in common and other that have very little in common, even among the same families. It's always interesting to see which files people prefer for certain types of driving. :)

That last statement is very true. I tried programming a TDE1 for a guy that was running around an NAW4. He wanted his NAW4 back because he didn't like the TDE1 :shrug:.

My wife (I'll continue to consider her that) doesn't like PMT1. She must be on crack or something. She hasn't driven the NVK4 (especially since I fixed a few little things) but from what she told me about her dislikes of PMT1, I can assure you that she'd be happy with it. MNM0/1 would suit her well too. At least she agreed with me that the PMT2 wasn't much fun to tow with in the mountains. I have personally decided that there won't be anymore NVK4 in my truck while I'm driving it. :whistle1:

[cleatus12r]

TDE0 and TDE1 have a number of undefined changes in what would be considered the "OBDII" section.



You're right (as if there were any doubt :rolleyes: ). With the VCAB0 definition, there are ZERO tuning differences (save for the checksum and cal. ID) between TDE0 and TDE1. When comparing the actual binary, there are quite a few changes though.

I guess I need to find out why my TDE0 doesn't shift. I thought maybe the "template" for VCAA0 (yes I bought that one too :cursin: ) was messed up but I guess not.

[stroker342gt]

so youre saying that with me thinking that my NVK2 runs pretty good with some slight mods that with one of bill's chips i should be royally impressed? damn, i thought i was doing good.:sigh:

[cleatus12r]

You have no idea how good one of these trucks can run until you can put the power to the ground at an effective RPM.

[stroker342gt]

Yea ive only had the truck a month or so, but i noticed tonight that its in 4th with the converter locked at 42 mph, really irritating intown traffic. I sent an email to order a pheonix but havent gotten the email bout how to pay yet, hope it went through, my computer acts up sometimes.

[cleatus12r]

I believe that until you fill out the online order form (which can be found here http://gopowerhungry.com/Downloads/Order%20Forms/Phoenix%20Order%20Form%20v2010-1-1%20-%20Signable.pdf ), I don't know if you'll get a payment request without that.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

[stroker342gt]

yep thats the one i filled out and emailed it to them as per the instructions, maybe they just havent processed it yet.:shrug:

[sideactiondiesel]

maybe someone can tell me why i am able to take ts tunes and put them in my delta force software and take and pull the stock nvk4 out off their disc and then load there stock file and have there be map kpa different and map max and other things wrong with it ?? the temp code is i use is mnm0 nvaa and i load them save them and they seem to work in the truck great to be honest:cheesy smile: but cody i cant agree with u more chris has always helped us out and along with alex and pat also but unfortunately they look at the 7.3 and 6.0 a thing of the past and look forward to purchasing bills software soon:woot: cause u guys keep telling me that i will be happy bill seems like a great guy too !! so cant wait to get there software :happy-dancing: just need the $$ :cursin: but hope this pulling season we can reach out to more ppl and try pushing the tunes and go from there :thumbs up yellow: