The kd4crs/Power Hungry/Gotts Mod (revisited - and with pictures)

[Jackpine]

OK - I've been reading about this approach to a CAI mod long enough that I decided to try it. Here's what I did - and I take no credit at all for any of this, it was just my implementation of the excellent ideas put out by people that came before me.

In the 2004-2008 trucks, the intake snorkel has only a 2" diameter at the end where it goes into the fender well. Other than that, it's a Cold Air Intake - so, the goal is to increase the intake opening.

We start with the intake ducting. Remove the holddown bolt (red circle) in the picture below and pull the snorkel out of the fender wall (red arrow). Once you do that, you can pull the duct away from the filter box. It will make a lot of noise that sounds like something is breaking - just smile and ignore the bad sounds. :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260001.jpg

Now that you've got the intake duct out, turn it over and you'll see two rectangular "bumps" at each end of the bellows that look like they might be "release tabs". They aren't! Instead, they sit over raised areas on the inside tube that act sort of like "tire irons" to separate the bellows from the other parts of the ducting. I separated the bellows from the duct using the circled "bump" in the picture below. (Notice I like to work on the tailgate of my truck). :o

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260003.jpg

To do this, I put the duct between my knees and then twisted the base of the bellows (where I'm holding it with one hand) all the way around, and it comes right off. (I had to use two hands to do this, but in the picture, one hand was holding the camera).

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260004.jpg

Now that it's off, you can see the duct opening, which is 3" wide here and the little square bump at the top that was the "tire iron".

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260005.jpg

Compare the 2" flared opening of the snorkel that fits inside the fender with the 3" opening of the duct upstream of the bellows and you see why the engine might have trouble getting enough air at WOT.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260006.jpg

I went to Home Depot and bought a 2 ft length of 3" ABS pipe and a 3" to 3" rubber coupler. I wanted to make sure my new duct went into the fender as far as the original snorkel, so I marked my new 3" tube with a white line to match the gasket position.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260008.jpg

Now we have a complication. The hole in the fender is an oval, about 3 1/8" high by 3 1/2" wide. There's actually a small "lip" inside this oval too and I got rid of that lip with a Dremel grinding wheel. The resultant hole is now closer to 3 1/4" high and 3 1/2" wide. (Ignore the dirty fender wall). :o

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260009.jpg

The hardest part: I had to reshape the end of my new snorkel tube back to the white line to match the 3 1/4 x 3 1/2 oval opening. I used a "Mouse" sander, pictured here with the end of the tube that I shaped.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260010.jpg

Here's the finished tube, looking straight down the intake end. The outer surface is cut down so it will just fit into the fender opening. The inside opening is a true 3" intake.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260012.jpg

The new snorkel tube will have to be angled slightly from the rest of the intake to fit into the fender properly. (It needs to enter the fender at close to a right angle), so, the other end of the tube was cut at an angle try to match the truck's tube opening angle. The length of the new snorkel on the long side is 12 1/2 ". The length of the short side is 12".

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260013.jpg

Here, I've joined the two pieces with a 3" to 3" rubber coupler. Leave the "hose clamps" loose for now.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260014.jpg

I put my new snorkel into the fender (at a right angle) and it goes in right up to the line where I stopped shaping it. It's actually through the second hole in the inside of the fender at this point. It fits quite tightly through the opening, so I'm not worried about it getting "warm" engine air.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260015.jpg

Next, I reinserted the stock intake into the filter box opening and reinserted the hold down bolt. This pulled the new snorkel out of the fender a bit. :mad2:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260016.jpg

I worked with the snorkel to redirect it back into the opening as far as possible. It's not quite perfect, but I think it's good enough. (A "bellows" connector would be ideal here). Once I got the snorkel in place, I tightened the hose clamps.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260017.jpg

This is the finished assembly. A true 3" CAI for about $13. Best of all, I can return it to stock in just a few minutes if I want to.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260018.jpg

I've disconnected the battery overnight so the PCM will learn a new LTFT strategy and whatever else it has to learn. :confused:

So now, Bill: is there any thing wrong with this setup and, I don't need new tunes, right?

And please, this was not an attempt to one-up anyone. I have not seen a pictorial for the 2004-2008 models and this is my feeble attempt to put into practice what other, brighter people have been talking about for my model truck.

I hope it can be useful.

- Jack

[Mark_123]

:2thumbs:Thanks Jack!!!:2thumbs:

That is exactly what I was needing. I'll try this mod in a few days as long as there is no problem with the tunes on the Gryphon.

Thanks again:bow:

Mark

[Power Hungry]

Jack,

First off, that was a top-notch post! I give it a 10! :2thumbs:

As for the tuning, you should have no problems with your calibrations at all. Since you are not changing anything in relation to the MAF sensor, everything should be perfectly content once the STF and LTF trims relearn. Relearn could take a day or two depending on your driving.

For what it's worth, the one I did on the 2006 at Edge looked dead like yours.

Again, good job.

[Jackpine]

Bill and Mark - Thanks bunches!

It just seemed like such a good idea, and I couldn't really find anything in any of the forums for these model years.

Please feel free to correct/improve/amplify on anything I've said. I only tried to put into practice what I'd been reading about. I KNOW there has to be things that could have been done better. And, David - please jump in with what you did. I think it may have been for earlier model trucks, which is why I decided to post my work with my 2005.

- Jack

[ss8541]

Jack,

I have been searching for this since Bill talked to me about the gott's mod last week (I had some questions about CAI's). I found detailed info for the 03 and older f150's, but I have not found anything with as much detail for the 04-08's as you have presented. Thanks a lot, this info is greatly appreciated it.

[SinCityFX4]

Very nice!:2thumbs:

[Cajun]

Great job Jack, this is the route I'm planning on taking with my truck too.

[Power Hungry]

Now all we need to do is talk Jack into making about 2 dozen of those pipes and we'll start selling them as the "J&J Snorkel Kit" so nobody has to make their own. :D

Jack, is there a reason you couldn't use the original flex bellows? That would save a couple bucks not having to by the 3" coupler hose.

[Jackpine]

Now all we need to do is talk Jack into making about 2 dozen of those pipes and we'll start selling them as the "J&J Snorkel Kit" so nobody has to make their own. :D

Jack, is there a reason you couldn't use the original flex bellows? That would save a couple bucks not having to by the 3" coupler hose.

As a matter of fact - :doh:

One of the things about me is that I'm rarely satisfied with a first attempt.

This morning I discovered that the 3" ABS pipe actually fits rather snugly inside the bellows of the original intake. So, I pulled my intake out of the truck again and reinstalled the bellows on the end of the tube running into the air cleaner box. Then, I slipped my new snorkel into the bellows and reinstalled it back into the truck.

Now the new intake looks like this:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1270001.jpg

The bellows is a little more flexible, and the intake fits into the fender wall better now. I used a hose clamp (tightened snugly, but not really too tight) to provide more stability, but I'm not even sure that it's needed. I didn't even bother to cut the pipe shorter, so the only change is the bellows instead of the coupler.

Making this change allowed me to wipe off the fender wall so it doesn't look so hideous. (But I could have done a better job :shrug: - jbrew, if you see this, don't barf).

So, the total cost can be reduced to one hose clamp and one length of ABS tubing. (Anyone want to buy a slightly used coupler with one missing hose clamp)? :)

No, I'm not going into the tube making business! That part took about 3 hours of careful sanding, fitting, resanding, etc.

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

Looks nice with the bellows on there. Give the aesthetics of it, I'd doubt the dealer would even spot it except for the rubber grommet missing.

I do have one question (or favor) to ask... When you have time, could you pull the tube out and trace a pattern of the sanded end on a sheet of paper and scan it or fax it over? We'd like to be able to post it on the forums so folks can have a reasonable template to go by if they should decide to try and do it themselves.

For what it's worth, we might even be able to see if we can get them molded. I've got a guy that does carbon fiber molding that might be able to make them relatively inexpensively.

Once again, great job. :2thumbs:

[dmjackson76]

Great post Jack. I get fly in from this dirty rig tomorrow, & now I have a project once I get to the house. I think I will even celebrate the completion with a pile of crawfish, & some cold Bud Light:drinking: :woot:. Thanks for giving me an excuse. Also I don't have to tell my wife I am spending more on my truck as well. Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

[Jackpine]

Looks nice with the bellows on there. Give the aesthetics of it, I'd doubt the dealer would even spot it except for the rubber grommet missing.

I do have one question (or favor) to ask... When you have time, could you pull the tube out and trace a pattern of the sanded end on a sheet of paper and scan it or fax it over? We'd like to be able to post it on the forums so folks can have a reasonable template to go by if they should decide to try and do it themselves.

For what it's worth, we might even be able to see if we can get them molded. I've got a guy that does carbon fiber molding that might be able to make them relatively inexpensively.

Once again, great job. :2thumbs:

I think the carbon fiber molded idea is a great one! I'll be happy to pull, trace and fax the cross-section, but it probably would not fit into the fender wall hole without grinding off the small "lip" in the opening as I did. I measured the original oval in the fender at 3 1/8 x 3 1/2, using a pair of dividers, since I don't have any inside calipers. By grinding the opening, I was able to make the short diameter about 3 1/4". I was worried that sanding down the tube to 3 1/8 across would make it too weak.

What we really need is a tracing of the inside of the fender hole (unmodified). But, I don't see how one could get anything behind it to trace on.

- Jack

[AgentOrange]

Hi guys & gals, brand new to this forum. I stumbled across it while checking out other homemade CAIs after tinkering with one of my own and this was the first one I've seen that had an excellent one for the 2004 +. I like the caron fiber idea.
Here is a pic of what I came up with (hopefully the pic works):
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff251/rjohnson6855/Intake%20Mod/100_5989.jpg

[Jackpine]

The pic came out just fine AgentOrange (and welcome to the forum).

That's a pretty "sexy" looking intake. Sure doesn't look "homemade" (or cheap either).

Where'd it come from? And, what does it cost, does it work, etc., etc.?

- Jack

[AgentOrange]

Where'd it come from? And, what does it cost, does it work, etc., etc.?

- Jack


Thanks...It's actually the stock tube with the baffles cut off and capped. I also sealed the 6 holes you mentioned with silicone sealant. I took the bellows end off and replaced it with a flexible 3" Y pipe then I ran some 3" flexible metal ducting into the fenderwell and another length of ducting through the radiator support down to the rear of the tow hook which should add a little bit of ram air effect. I like your use of the ABS plastic pipe into the fenderwell better, however, so I might steal that idea later...BTW, do you think the end that is inserted into the fender could be heated and formed to fit inside the oval opening to avoid the sanding?
As far as it making a difference...to early to tell. I am still using the stock filter, which I plan to change to a Amsoil soon, so I doubt I have seen the full potential. I have not heard any whistling noises as of yet, but I haven't done any interstate driving or made any high RPM runs yet...I'll follow-up if I notice any strange sounds. I'll follow-up on MPG's also. Since the mod, which has only been a couple of days, I haven't driven my normal route which is very short with a lot of stopping and starting, so any numbers I would give now would be misleading.
Total cost was around $30 for the parts.
I have several other pics of the mod in my album...check 'em out.
Originally, I was going to do the same mod as you sans ABS pipe, but then I saw the Y-pipe while I was shopping for the other parts and figured hmmm...2 cold air inlets would be better than 1, so that's what I came up with.

[Northern Supercrew]

Great write-up Jack.:2thumbs: i've never seen/heard of that modd...just the cut filter housing on the 97-03 series. Thanx for sharing that.

[Jackpine]

Wow, AgentOrange! You just blew me away!

That's what I love about talking to people on these forums, you find out there are some REALLY bright people out there!

First, your question - do I think the end that is inserted into the fender wall could be heated and formed? Yes - but I'd rather do it by some molding process. The ABS pipe is just a cheap homemade thing. To really do it right, it needs to be the same kind of plastic that is used in the original intake, which allows a thin, rigid structure. And that brings me back to my original concern. If this is all that is needed, why didn't Ford engineers give us a 3" intake in the first place? I still think there's a reason for the choked down intake. If I knew what it was, I'd feel better about defeating it. My very uneducated guess remains - they don't want you abusing the engines at WOT and high RPMs, so they limit the potential there to avoid warranty claims from people who drive that way all the time.

The "Y" IS going to bring in more air, no doubt about it. But, you get turbulence from the two intersecting sources and that COULD be a problem, or maybe not. I can't tell just from looking and I'm not smart enough to figure out a way to test for this. I'm interested that you removed and capped the resonator inlets. What led you to this approach? And, I haven't looked at your album yet, but if it's a "T", rather than a "Y" leading into the filter inlet, you could be working against yourself as ram air effect increases. But I suspect you wouldn't call it a "Y" if it wasn't.

And maybe, just maybe, your "Y" intake gets rid of harmonics that cause noise, so you don't need the resonators at all.

I just don't know. Your creation has all the hallmarks of an "invention".

As far as the filter goes - I'm skeptical about these things. If the device filters dirt out to a specific micron size, it has to restrict the flow somewhat. The only way you can overcome that restriction is to increase the filter area and the "cone" filters look like they might do that. But, as the filters start to build up crud, they actually filter better but pass less air. So, no matter what filter you use, you need to keep it clean to keep the airflow. I honestly think the stock filters do a pretty good job of compromise - size vs performance.

Oh and crap! You've got an engine compartment that looks like a surgeon's operating theater - like jbrew's. What's wrong with a little dirt - like John Madden's idea of real football? :)

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

The baffle removal looks fantastic! That's a nice job. As for the "Y", that's really nice looking, too. It's amazing what you can find at Home Depot or Lowes!

After closer inspection, I am led to believe the "holes" are to allow any water collected by the intake to drain out. Even old carburetor air cleaner assemblies had an outer ring that sat lower than the filter element and the ring had holes to allow water to drain out without soaking the filter.

Good job, guys. :D

[kd4crs]

Here are some pics of mine. I am going to do a write up on it and send it to Bill to post.
http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=148

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=147

I have taken the truck in for service several times and the dealership techs never noticed it.

EDIT to add: See post #71 in this thread for instructions to make the DWV intake mod.

[Jackpine]

David! Glad to see your version here too!

This has become a dynamite thread, hasn't it? I'll be looking forward to what you send in to Bill.

Bottom line, it DOES seem to be possible to have a CAI that doesn't break the bank and that DOES provide increased performance.

Bill - interesting that you think these might be water drain holes. But, in operation, the low pressure effect of the air flowing down the tube would prevent any draining. At rest, of course, water could drain.

Respectfully, sir, I'm not buying it. I think them holes is in there for some other friggin reason. And, it appears to be a Ford, "burn before reading". secret! :yikes2:

- Jack

[kd4crs]

Thanks Jack, I went ahead and put together a write up with pictures and emailed it to Bill for him to proof read and post. I concur with Bill regarding the purpose of the holes in the bottom of the stock intake tube being there for water elimination. :yesnod: The nice thing about the DWV intake mod and its variations is that it preserves the noise canceling abilities of the factory intake which is a CAI even in stock form. It just needs the restriction removed. :thumbsup:

EDIT to add: See post #71 in this thread for instructions to make the DWV intake mod.

[AgentOrange]

I'm interested that you removed and capped the resonator inlets. What led you to this approach?

Appearance was the only reason I removed them...I really hated they way they looked. I like the way it opens up the top of engine w/o them.

Believe me, I'm not used to this clean of an engine bay myself...I just bought the truck last October. My previous truck was a lifted '78 Bronco with a 460 last I used to mud all the time. The engine bay in that truck wouldn't come clean, no matter how hard I tried.

Thanks for the comments guys.

[Jackpine]

Thanks Jack, I went ahead and put together a write up with pictures and emailed it to Bill for him to proof read and post. I concur with Bill regarding the purpose of the holes in the bottom of the stock intake tube being there for water elimination. :yesnod: The nice thing about the DWV intake mod and its variations is that it preserves the noise canceling abilities of the factory intake which is a CAI even in stock form. It just needs the restriction removed. :thumbsup:

In restudying the intake, I'm beginning to warm up to the idea that the holes might be there to drain water. In the case of the 2 rows of three on the bottom of the intake duct, they ARE fairly close to the lowest point on the duct (before it reaches the bellows) and the front row seem to be at the exact bottom of the curvature of the duct. The back row, however is somewhat "uphill" from the bottom of the duct and this seems counterproductive.

There are three resonator chambers. The front large one has a larger hole near, but not at, the lowest point and then another, smaller hole up higher, close to the halfway point. The small rear chamber has a hole at the lowest point. The smaller front chamber has no holes at all. So, the ones with holes could have them for draining water too, but why are they not at the lowest point in the big chamber?

As I said, I'm lukewarm to the holes being drain holes, but why have some of them "uphill"?

On a related note, AgentOrange, I looked through your album at your intake mod. Nice work! However, I'm a little concerned that the intake sitting right behind the tow hook is positioned to really take a big drink of water in the event of driving through a deep puddle or maybe even just heavy rain. I know the tube runs uphill quite a distance from that point, but when the engine is at high rpm, isn't it possible that there could be enough suction to pull water up into the filter box? I like the ram effect idea, but I think if I were going to do this mod, I'd run the secondary duct up high, perhaps just under the headlight. You lose the ram effect here, but the opening would be out of the hot engine compartment.

I like the flexible metal duct into the fender well. Sure looks easier than shaping a rigid ABS tube.

- Jack

[AgentOrange]

Jack,
My thoughts exactly if I only had the scoop at the bottom, but I don't think water intake would be a problem because of the second air inlet into the fenderwell. Think of drinking through a straw...If there is a hole in the straw above your favorite beverage, all you suck in is air...path of least resistance.

[Jackpine]

Yep, you're probably right! I suspect there's no way you could create a big enough vacuum to pull water up that distance.

- Jack

[bbbxcursion]

Looks good! Maybe put some type of soft material along the edge of the hole. I wonder if the intake noise resonates through the truck due to the pipe touching the fender??

[bbbxcursion]

I'm not sure about the other members.....But someone came to my door and put a gun to my head until I joined. I thought that was the norm for PHP? :eek:

[Power Hungry]

I'm not sure about the other members.....But someone came to my door and put a gun to my head until I joined. I thought that was the norm for PHP? :eek:

Really? I don't remember doing that... All I said was that someone was going to come to your house and replace your Excursion with a 6.2L Suburban. Talk about misleading! :doh:

[AgentOrange]

I wonder if the intake noise resonates through the truck due to the pipe touching the fender??

No noise so far...
I really don't like the way the 90 degree elbow is fastened to the frame either, via zip tie, but it'll have to do until I can firgue something else out. I don't want to drill any holes in the frame and I don't want to lose the tow hook either.

[kokopellimotorsports]

Excellent work people. :thumbsup: I am working on a tech section on my website and would like your permission to post this up Jack, and anyone else that would be willing to have it posted. Thanks. I just removed the snorkel and left it open in the engine compartment.

[Jackpine]

Excellent work people. :thumbsup: I am working on a tech section on my website and would like your permission to post this up Jack, and anyone else that would be willing to have it posted. Thanks. I just removed the snorkel and left it open in the engine compartment.

Feel free to post anything I've talked about kokopelli - It's NOT copyrighted and it wasn't even my idea. Just my implementation. I've also added an album in my "Albums" on this forum that shows this mod and I've included dimensions in the captions. You may want to look at that too.

I wonder if removing the snorkel and leaving the intake open in the engine compartment is a good idea though? Wouldn't that tend to draw "warm" (less dense) air into the engine, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of an improved intake?

- Jack

[kokopellimotorsports]

Feel free to post anything I've talked about kokopelli - It's NOT copyrighted and it wasn't even my idea. Just my implementation. I've also added an album in my "Albums" on this forum that shows this mod and I've included dimensions in the captions. You may want to look at that too.

I wonder if removing the snorkel and leaving the intake open in the engine compartment is a good idea though? Wouldn't that tend to draw "warm" (less dense) air into the engine, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of an improved intake?

- Jack

Thanks for the info. I will check out your Album.

As far as the hot air, this probably could be an issue, but most cold air intakes set their filter right in the compartment. Though I do agree with the logic of colder denser air. With your write up I will probably do much the same as you.:yesnod:

[Jackpine]

Thanks for the info. I will check out your Album.

As far as the hot air, this probably could be an issue, but most cold air intakes set their filter right in the compartment. Though I do agree with the logic of colder denser air. With your write up I will probably do much the same as you.:yesnod:

Some of the pictures I've seen show the filter in a kind of "box" that looks like it's there to isolate the intake area somewhat from the engine heat. It's also possible that when moving, the whole thing is a moot point anyway due to the airflow through the engine compartment (as long as you keep the intake away from the flow through the radiator).

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

Again, when I get questions about leaving the end of the tube open, I always end up going back to the 60's & 70's cars that had air cleaners with the snorkel that barely made it past the valve covers.

From a performance aspect, cooler air is always more desirable than warmer air. Although, like Jack, I wonder just how much warmer the air really is getting in the intake tube when blasting along at 70 MPH. This would be an easy thing to validate since the programmers have ACT in the PIDS. If it was less than 10º difference, I'd wonder just how necessary it really is to complete the tube connection to the fender.

As for CAIs, there's no question they're drawing some amount of warm air from under the hood. Again, a quick check of the ACT before and after installing will give you the final word.

[kd4crs]

Hey Bill, did you get the write-up I emailed you? I did not see a response. Sometimes I wonder if my Hotmail account emails I send don't get eaten by the spam filters.

[Power Hungry]

Sorry about that... I am still weeding through e-mails. I did see the one from you but just haven't had a chance to open it and read through it.

We'll get it up along with Jack's and AO's pictures so people can have some nice options to the much expensive CAI kits. :thumbsup:

Take care.

[kd4crs]

No problem, just wanted to be sure it didn't get lost in the ether. Thanks for offering to publish it.

[bbbxcursion]

Really? I don't remember doing that... All I said was that someone was going to come to your house and replace your Excursion with a 6.2L Suburban. Talk about misleading! :doh:

Atleast it would move under it's own power....

[Extreme Justice]

Jack,

As for the tuning, you should have no problems with your calibrations at all. Since you are not changing anything in relation to the MAF sensor, everything should be perfectly content once the STF and LTF trims relearn. Relearn could take a day or two depending on your driving.

For what it's worth, the one I did on the 2006 at Edge looked dead like yours.



So Bill what your saying is that we wouldn't have to get NEW TUNES for this Mod? Not like we would if we bought a CAI off the shelf. :2thumbs:

[Mark_123]

I think I may just remove that snorkel and leave everything else the same for now. I have a piece of 3" flexible PVC on order that I plan to run into the fender and re-attach to the stock intake. I'll post pics if it works. I wanted to find something that would work without sanding the hard pvc to fit the fender. I can only imagine how frustrated I'd become spending 3 hours trying to perfectly sand or grind the pvc pipe to fit:cursin:. I'll try the flex and let everyone know.

[kd4crs]

The DWV intake mod requires no sanding or fitting. I can email you the instructions if you like. Bill is going to post them on here soon. Mark_123 check your PMs. :D

EDIT to add: See post #71 in this thread for the DWV intake mod instructions.

[Jackpine]

So Bill what your saying is that we wouldn't have to get NEW TUNES for this Mod? Not like we would if we bought a CAI off the shelf. :2thumbs:

That is EXACTLY what he said - and the only reason I tried this mod myself!

- Jack

[Jackpine]

Other than the "sexy" look of the commercial CAIs, I wonder why anyone would want them? Trust me though, I wouldn't have tried making one myself if I hadn't read Bill's thoughts on this!

Even though I love to argue obscure points, I recognize Bill's expertise in this area and I know, "I can take it to the bank".

Thanks again, Bill and Corey, for creating a forum that so far, allows us to "think out loud" and not be afraid of sounding stupid! :2thumbs: :margarita: :guiness:

- Jack

[kokopellimotorsports]

Yes, thank you Bill and Corey for the forum. :thumbsup:

[glockwinger]

Other than the "sexy" look of the commercial CAIs, I wonder why anyone would want them?

- Jack


Well, when I was once dumb and impressionable :rofl:...someone sold me on the idea of doing a few mods to my truck. I wouldn't do most of them again, the CAI for starters. Just wasted my money. I wish I had the info then that I have now...it would have saved me :1dollar: and :bangwall:

[Mark_123]

So I found this 12" piece of 3" black rubber-coated flexible PVC used for fish ponds (that was a mouthfull:hehe:) Anyway, I removed the snorkel, inserted the 3" pipe into the intake, then inserted the other end through the first fender wall hole and into the second fender hole. I heated the end of the pipe in hot water to make it more pliable before pushing it into the fender. I then used a black worm clamp to seal the 3" pipe in the intake leading to the engine. Overall....I'm impressed!:woot:

I had the snorkel off for a few days just letting it breath the engine bay air. The intake air temp (IAT) seemed to always be at least 10 degrees higher than ambient temp while driving. Of course, if the truck was stopped at a red light, the IAT may go to 30-50 degrees higher than outside air temp (OAT). So now with the little extension added on, the IAT=OAT while driving. Pretty cool if you ask me. I can post photos when the snow melts and the temp climbs back up (currently 20 F). Thanks to all for your ideas and pics:howdy:!!!

Mark

[Jackpine]

It's incredible how the ideas have taken off here. I think something flexible will probably work better than the "stiff" tube, since the "bend" to match the angle of the stock intake can be more gradual. This should probably produce a slightly smoother airflow, which should cut down on resistance (internal drag) a bit.

I'll be interested in your pictures, Mark. Can you remember where you got this tube? I was looking at the flexible metal tubing like Agent Orange used in his version at Ace hardware the other day. It'll certainly smooth out the bend too.

And, on the subject of air temperature - Here in Arizona, we regularly hit 105+ in the summer. We don't need one extra degree of heat from the engine into the intake when it's like that!

- Jack

[Mark_123]

Jack, got the pipe on Ebay. Oh, and I thought this was interesting. If anyone tries to make there own mods, I would leave the bellows (rubber looking flexible piece of intake from factory) in the setup. Here's why:

The rubber PVC pipe I pushed into the fender is pretty much stuck in place...it's not going to move. The other end is in the bellows section. As I was revving the engine to make myself think this mod was the coolest thing on Earth:thumbsup:, I noticed that as the engine revved and pulled to the opposite side of the fender intake, the bellows stretched to keep from pulling loose any other piece of the intake. I would imagine that any modified intake without this bellows piece might pull the intake away from the fender hole or even damage the modified intake. Just some food for thought.

[Jackpine]

Mark! What a great observation, and, thank you for posting it! I never thought of the movement of the engine under revs. I agree - the bellows needs to stay there.

- Jack

[kd4crs]

That is one reason I designed the DWV intake mod to utilize the flex section. Another reason was to absorb/reduce vibration being transmitted from the intake into the fender structure. It also helps the mod be more of a sleeper/stealth mod. I love the fact that I have taken the truck in for service several times and the dealership techs have yet to spot it. :)

[Mark_123]

Well, here's mine. Be sure to ignore the dirty engine bay. As soon as Winter leaves us I can clean the salt out of my truck:smiley_roll1:


http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=33&pictureid=180

[kd4crs]

Looks good! :thumbsup:

[Jackpine]

Looks VERY good! Mark, where did you find the black clamp? And, I went looking for something like the pipe you used at Home Depot today, but had no luck. I wonder if I might find it at a pool supply store?

(And, now I don't feel so bad about my original pictures with the dirty fender wall. I'm extremely nervous about trying to wash the engine bay. I've read too many horror stories over on the f150 forum about wet COPs. Usually, I'd be spraying the entire engine with Simple Green and then hitting it with a high pressure hose. I've even used a pressure washer on the engine in my Honda with no ill effects).

To continue this hijack - my technique for cleaning the built up dust out of my desktop computers is to take the box out on the back patio, open it and then blow it out with my yard blower. Works like a charm!

Sorry for the hijack - it's the way my simple little mind works. :o

- Jack

[Mark_123]

Hey Jack, I think I only paid $5 plus shipping for the small piece of pipe from Ebay. The black clamp...well, I like to bass fish. I just put a new trolling motor on my Ranger boat last year, so I sprayed a couple of different sizes of clamps to use on my trolling motor sonar attachment. Anyway, this one was left over. I think I just used some $1 flat spray paint I found a Lowes. :notallthere:I have this little OCD issue that always makes me do things perfectly:notallthere: Oh yeah, the dirty engine bay is driving me crazy!!!!:bang:

[Jackpine]

So, duh!, you spray painted it! Gollee-dang! What an amazing idea! :doh:

So, I troll for "fishpond pipe" on ebay? (That's almost a pun, isn't it)? Maybe tomorrow. Seems like this stuff should be available locally.

But, the horror stories about people washing their engines really makes me nervous!

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

When washing engines, it's not like the small block Fords and Chevys of yester-decade. There used to be very little space for water to collect and where it did, it was harmless.

Nowadays, you got spark plugs that slip down into 8" tubes and the only thing keeping water out is the crappy boot on the COP. Not an impressive setup even in the best of conditions. Any moisture trapped in there will only accelerate oxidation of the plug body which only goes to exaggerate the "broken plug" issue.

I don't really see a problem with cleaning the engine compartment as long as you use low pressure water and stay completely away from the top of the engine. Using any sort of pressure washer is asking for an $800 tune-up. :doh:

[bbbxcursion]

Whenever I clean the newer fords, I have to pull the coils out to blow that water out of the whole. PITA!

[Cajun]

A dirty engine compartment drives me nuts too. In fact I was going to take it to the car wash this weekend and get rid of the road salt we had this week. So if I understand right, all I should do with my '08 is a little Simple Green and the regular hose and only below the level of the heads, then use my compressor to blow as much of the water out as possible, right?

[Jackpine]

A dirty engine compartment drives me nuts too. In fact I was going to take it to the car wash this weekend and get rid of the road salt we had this week. So if I understand right, all I should do with my '08 is a little Simple Green and the regular hose and only below the level of the heads, then use my compressor to blow as much of the water out as possible, right?

That might work fine Cajun - I also remember, now that I think about it, that somebody else in the f150 forums recommended using a yard blower (like I do to clean PCs) to blow the plug wells out and dry things off.

Another cleaning product I remember now that someone uses is "Spray-n-Wash" (the stuff you spray on clothes before you put them in the washer to get rid of stains). A picture of his engine compartment looked squeaky clean.

The owners manual only says to be careful with water around the intake tube. I wonder if it's possible to force some in to the filter box through the crack where the tube joins it?

- Jack

[Cajun]

Thanks Jack.

[Jackpine]

Just painted my hose clamp! :woohoo: Can't wait till it dries so I can put it back on and see how much better my CAI performs! :hehe:

- Jack

[kd4crs]

That and a PHP sticker on your back window will add at least 35 more horsepower to your truck! :smiley_roll1:

[88Racing]

Great ideas everyone shure beets the price of a cai!
Jack,
Might stop at a hardware store or plumbing wholesale house and get some ideas Friday or this week end of what could go into the fender well hole that would not interfear with the inner diameter of the hole and does not have to remove the lip, but can be easily be removed. I will post it if I find something.

-Lars
Forgive the spelling, life on a blackberry!

[SinCityFX4]

You could use those thick coupler pieces and cut a line around the
Outer edge so it seats in the fender well.

[Jackpine]

I've seen flex metal tubing that looks pretty similar to what AgentOrange used in Ace Hardware and Home Depot. He said it required NO fender modification. I've seen flex PVC online in pool supply sources, but I have yet to find it in a "brick and mortar" store. Plumbing wholesale might be a good source, Lars.

SinCity, I don't think I understand what you are proposing. I doubt any of the couplers I've seen are long enough to get into the outer fender well, and, It's not clear to me how you are cutting it?

- Jack

[SinCityFX4]

Well, I was thinking about a setup like MArk has on his then using a regular coupler like the 1st pic and then using a razor knife to cut a lip in in it so it seats. Or using something like the second pic on the bottom if I can find the right piece.

I am using my old intake and trying to make one for my neighbor who cannot use his hands very well (stroke). He does not want to cut or hurt his truck so I am using mine to make it and try and find a way so I dont alter his truck other than the intake from mine. You guys have given me a ton of ideas.:2thumbs:

[Jackpine]

OK, take pictures of what you come up with!

- Jack

[88Racing]

I think I might know where sincity is going with this correct me if I am wrong. Take a no hub coupler like Jack has left over and make sure it has the same ID as the pipe or am I thinking wrong? I know they make a 3x2.5" reducer coupler(problem with this one it has a rib where the 2 pipes meet) or like the 3" one Jack used. Or take the 3" coupler and try that in there also? Is it long enough or will the sides kink in and cause less air flow/turbulance?

-Lars

[kd4crs]

These are all good ideas but I think folks are over-engineering, and over-thinking things a bit. To clarify what I mean I will go ahead and post the instructions, materials list, and pictures for the DWV intake. It really is about as simple and as easy as it gets, no grinding, no fitting, no painiting. Once Bill posts the write up I sent him I will edit this to comply with his wishes. See below:


DWV intake mod for the 2004-2008 F150 with 5.4L engine



Materials:

1. 7.5 inch length of 3 inch inside diameter black ABS DWV pipe.

2. One female-to-female 3 inch black ABS coupler.

3. One rubber downspout connector from the plumbing section of Lowes or Home Depot.

4. One 4 inch stainless steel worm clamp.

5. Small container of ABS pipe glue.



Assembly:

1. Cut black ABS pipe to length and remove any burrs from the ends.

2. Apply a light coat of ABS pipe glue to the end of the black ABS DWV pipe in a one inch wide strip. Apply a light coat of ABS glue to the inside of one end of the female coupler and immediately press the coupler into the black ABS DWV pipe with a twisting motion to fully seat the pipe into the coupler. Allow to dry 30 minutes.

3. Attach rubber downspout connector over end of female coupler and seat fully.



Installation:

1. Remove stock intake tube by removing 10mm bolt holding it in place.

2. Using a large flat blade screwdriver, insert it in the joint at the end of the flex section on the bottom where the notch is in order to remove the snorkel. Spraying silicone lubricant or WD-40 in the joint will help it come out easily. Be careful not to damage the flex section or snorkel in case you need to return to stock.

3. Loosen 4 inch stainless steel worm clamp and slip over end of flex section. Tighten the worm clamp enough that it will not fall off.

4. Insert the end of the 3 inch black ABS DWV pipe into the flex section of the intake and slide it into the flex section as far as it will go.

5. Reinstall stock intake tube and replace 10mm bolt.

6. Slide the 3 inch black ABS DWV pipe out of the flex section and seat the downspout adapter in the fender hole while compressing the flex section.

7. While holding the flex section compressed, tighten the stainless steel worm clamp to hold the black ABS DWV pipe in place.

IMPORTANT: If the flex section is not compressed the DWV intake mod may vibrate or rattle.

Pictures:

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=192
Ingredients for the DWV intake mod
http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=193
Finished DWV intake mod
http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=194
No restrictions here! Full 3 inch diameter end to end.
Additional pictures are in my gallery.

[Jackpine]

So, looking back at the pictures you posted, the downspout connector compresses enough to get in, and through both fender holes so it gets the air from the original source? I have to say I never thought of looking for a downspout connector (and I don't know that I've ever noticed something like that here).

Of course, it may not be necessary to get the air from that original source, but, as I said in an earlier post, here in the Arizona summers, I want to avoid as much heat as possible.

- Jack

[kd4crs]

Jack,

The smaller end of the downspout connector fits into the fender hole almost perfectly. Compressing the flex section while tightening the worm clamp insures that there is light pressure keeping the downspout connector fully seated in the fender hole. This also prevents it from making noise or vibrating. The PVC downspout connector helps prevent transmitting noise or vibration into the fender structure, similar to the rubber doughnut gasket on the stock snorkel tip.

[Jackpine]

Thank you sir! Nice post! :2thumbs:

Now I have to visit Lowes and Home Depot and see if I can find one of these downspout thingys. :)

- Jack

[kd4crs]

Jack,

I checked the web sites for both stores and Lowe's has them on the web site but Home Depot does not. Home Depot may carry them but I can't be certain since they are not on their web site. You may also be able to find a similar item at a local plumbing supply house. Anyway, here is the Lowe's link:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=23455-34146-RDSC&lpage=none

I tried to adhere to the KISS principle during the whole development process for this mod. :)

[Jackpine]

Thank you David.

The link clarifies things nicely and now I know what I'm looking for. I like the KISS principle too, when I can see how to make it work. :doh:

- Jack

[kd4crs]

Pictures are now up in my post #71 of this thread. Also in my gallery.:fyi:

[88Racing]

Jack and David,
Got so gunho on this decided to make pit stop on the way home and basically came back with what I saw on David's pictures. I do not think it was over engineering more like pooling ideas but speaking different languages.

Great job once again

-Lars

[kd4crs]

Please don't take my comment the wrong way, I just meant that there is no need to go out and buy a dozen different things and try to cobble them together to accomplish what we are trying to do. I like to keep the KISS principle in mind when doing little projects like the DWV intake mod. I am in no way criticizing anyone's efforts to mod their vehicle. Sometimes the simplest solution is often the best.

[88Racing]

Do not worry, not stepping on my toes. KISS is a good policy. Thanks for posting pictures.

-Lars

[Jim Allen]

Pretty coo1!

I'm new here and hesitate to start in such a way, but at the risk of being labeled a "Negative Nelly" after my first post.... is there any proof these mods actually increase airflow? The reason I ask goes back many years to my days as a Land Rover tech.

Late '80s and early '90s EFI Range Rovers had a "trumpet" on the end of of the air cleaner, similar to the part that was replaced in these examples. It necked down to a diameter many people were sure was restrictive, so they lobbed off the trumpet thinking it helped airflow.

I thought it would too, but then I took a bunch of air filters to the late, great Earl Davis for flowbench tests back when he was running the test lab at K&N. I had both a standard Range Rover filter with the trumpet and one modified similar to the way this Ford one is done. No significant difference in airflow. In fact, the trumpet actually flowed slightly more. Earl postulated that the trumpet design actually had something to do with that, smoothing and consolidating air flow, much like velocity tubes will do on carbs. I later backed that airflow test up with a dyno test.. no difference in power the chassis dyno could pick up (admittedly, chassis dynos are "numb" to small changes). Operationally, you couldn't tell a difference, except that the modified horn was noisier.

I won't say definitively that the Ford mod will flow more, or less, than the stock setup because I haven't tested it, but previous experience leads me to ask the question at least.

I have limited access to a flow bench, so in theory, I could test the various permutations of this filter. I have a stock filter from my '05 5.4 F-150 (I am running an AEM CAI). If we wanted to do a test, I could probably make that happen. Bill can vouch for me. I hope!!?

[Grabber523]

Pretty coo1!

I'm new here and hesitate to start in such a way, but at the risk of being labeled a "Negative Nelly" after my first post.... is there any proof these mods actually increase airflow? The reason I ask goes back many years to my days as a Land Rover tech.

Late '80s and early '90s EFI Range Rovers had a "trumpet" on the end of of the air cleaner, similar to the part that was replaced in these examples. It necked down to a diameter many people were sure was restrictive, so they lobbed off the trumpet thinking it helped airflow.

I thought it would too, but then I took a bunch of air filters to the late, great Earl Davis for flowbench tests back when he was running the test lab at K&N. I had both a standard Range Rover filter with the trumpet and one modified similar to the way this Ford one is done. No significant difference in airflow. In fact, the trumpet actually flowed slightly more. Earl postulated that the trumpet design actually had something to do with that, smoothing and consolidating air flow, much like velocity tubes will do on carbs. I later backed that airflow test up with a dyno test.. no difference in power the chassis dyno could pick up (admittedly, chassis dynos are "numb" to small changes). Operationally, you couldn't tell a difference, except that the modified horn was noisier.

I won't say definitively that the Ford mod will flow more, or less, than the stock setup because I haven't tested it, but previous experience leads me to ask the question at least.

I have limited access to a flow bench, so in theory, I could test the various permutations of this filter. I have a stock filter from my '05 5.4 F-150 (I am running an AEM CAI). If we wanted to do a test, I could probably make that happen. Bill can vouch for me. I hope!!?

I have to agree with your statements here. It's kinda been a nagging question in my head but I'm new here so I didn't want to seem like the naysayer...I guess in my head the "velocity stack" on the intake is there to improve airflow into the intake tube by compressing and accelerating the air as it flows into the tube. Because of the inverse relationship between pressure and velocity, as the diameter of the tube increases behind the inlet and the velocity decreases, the pressure increases (I guess really it's decreasing the vacuum) in the tube. I guess if my theory's not too far off, that "trumpet" inlet tube serves to increase the density of the air charge before the throttle body...does that make sense? It would improve low-end torque and throttle response but cause slight restriction at high rpm.

[kd4crs]

Bill has dynoed this type of mod and it showed no ill effects on the airfuel ratios, long or short term fuel trims, or anything else. He said it showed an increase of 7-8 RWHP in the upper RPMs. If you search, you should be able to find his post on the forums here. I don't remember which thread it was in. The nice thing about the DWV intake mod is that it is completely reversible to be able to return to stock if needed. Nothing is damaged or permanently modified. It leaves no footprint.

[Grabber523]

Bill has dynoed this type of mod and it showed no ill effects on the airfuel ratios, long or short term fuel trims, or anything else. He said it showed an increase of 7-8 RWHP in the upper RPMs. If you search, you should be able to find his post on the forums here. I don't remember which thread it was in. The nice thing about the DWV intake mod is that it is completely reversible to be able to return to stock if needed. Nothing is damaged or permanently modified. It leaves no footprint.

I'm not saying it would hurt anything except maybe that first off-idle stab of the throttle feel. Your MAF should still see the same volume of air, just at a different rpm because of the change in velocity, so there would be no real reason to have to re-tune for it. I'll probably leave mine alone, but that's me. I don't need to push my power band any further to the right as I already have X-piped true duals which definitely changed the feel of the initial "grunt" off idle. I do think it is a great idea for somone looking for more up top. And is saves some $$$!

[AgentOrange]

Bill has dynoed this type of mod and it showed no ill effects on the airfuel ratios, long or short term fuel trims, or anything else. He said it showed an increase of 7-8 RWHP in the upper RPMs. If you search, you should be able to find his post on the forums here. I don't remember which thread it was in. The nice thing about the DWV intake mod is that it is completely reversible to be able to return to stock if needed. Nothing is damaged or permanently modified. It leaves no footprint.

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197&page=2

Post #14

[Jackpine]

This is in response to the excellent posts by Jim Allen and Grabber523. I was typing it but had to stop for lunch and three other posts snuck in on me!

Both Jim and Grabber make good points, and one's that worried me too, but for a different reason. First though, I have a degree in Aerospace Engineering and know that airflow theory is SUPER complicated. I've been concerned that these modifications would induce turbulence in the intake (due to a non-streamlined cross-section in the modified area) that would actually work against the increased intake area. Then too, the "squared off" end of the new intake may in fact promote turbulence too.

However, Bill brought up the point that the CAI design doesn't really come into play until you're at high RPM's, and, something he said in one of his posts convinced me that he thought the airflow was increased under those demands with the bigger opening. (I think this was reprised in one of the posts that beat me to this one).

Grabber, there IS the inverse relationship between velocity and pressure, but there's also conservation of mass. You're not going to get anything more downstream of the inlet than you had AT the inlet, and, since the flow is moving, the static pressure is always less than ambient (meaning the air is less dense than ambient). I think the restricted opening can ultimately cause a lower pressure condition to exist throughout the inlet tube and at the throttle body if RPMs are high enough. At that point, it's going to be difficult to increase power since the MAF sensor is going to say "not enough air".

Jim, I liked your "smoothing" analogy. It goes back to what I was saying about turbulence possibly restricting airflow. And, it may well be the case that you are right on this. I certainly would like to see some objective data and won't throw my trumpet snorkel away until I'm convinced it's worthless. I will say, though, that the trumpet/bellows assembly is not the most streamlined, laminar flow design I've ever looked at with the inside "bumps" just downstream of the inlet, the rings at the bellows end of the snorkel and finally, the accordion folds of the bellows itself. And, the trumpet end widens too rapidly to my eyes. It seems like it should cause turbulence of its own due to this. It doesn't look like a reasonable airfoil curve to me.

Finally, since the cross-sectional area of the tube increases with the square of the radius, we have an intake cross-section of 3.14 sq inches with the trumpet, but 7.07 sq inches with the mod. That's over twice as much intake area for a 0.5" radius increase! I feel this almost HAS to increase the flow potential!

And, AgentOrange's "RAM" air mod probably provides even more. It's possible that the increased pressure from the RAM tube sort of cancels the fender inlet contribution at high speeds, but I'm nearly certain the combined effect provides even more air mass than one of them acting alone.

Again, gentlemen, I'd love to see some objective data and I'm delighted you two were not afraid to bring this point up.

As I said in another post, maybe a month ago: That trumpet restriction is there for a reason! You can bet on it. I'm betting it's there to reduce power potential at the upper end, which might reduce engine damage and warranty claims from those who abuse their engines.

- Jack

[Jim Allen]

One difference in my Land Rover example was that the trumpet was right at the end of a cylindrical filter housing with a cylindrical filter element inside. The trumpet was fairly close to the filter and not far away from the intake plenum itself. I think that scenario would be HIGHLY sensitive to any changes, where a change at the end of a system with such large interior volume would be far less sensitive to changes at the inlet.

As to the power increase, that's very telling if it was on a chassis dyno. If you can pull that much power out consistently over the margins for error that seem constant in a chassis dyno, you are doing good! What I wonder is whether what Bill tested was the J&J design, or the Agent Orange unit that eliminated the expansion chamber? Bill???

Like I said, I am willing to flow bench these mods. Can use my old housing and you guys can send the rest of the modified stuff to try. Before we start exchanging addresses, however, I'll have to make sure I can borrow the flow bench and a competent operator for a coupla hours.

[Jim Allen]

Oh, I just saw and followed Agent Oranges link and it sounds like Bill was just averaging the results of a CAI system, not speaking specifically to the modified stock system we are talking about. Am I correct?

[Jackpine]

Jim, I'm certain Bill did not use the AgentOrange design. That's a pretty unique idea I think!

I'm fairly certain it was of the kd4crs ilk, or maybe even just an open tube minus the bellows and snorkel.

- Jack

[AgentOrange]

Jim, I'm certain Bill did not use the AgentOrange design. That's a pretty unique idea I think!

I'm fairly certain it was of the kd4crs ilk, or maybe even just an open tube minus the bellows and snorkel.

- Jack


I wish I could take full credit for the idea, but Banks beat me to it.
If you notice, his design also uses the fenderwell inlet.

Check it out: http://bankspower.com/products/show/32/50 lot's of info there.

I doubt my mod makes the power his does, especially because I am still using the stock filter, but the principal is the same.
I think the main point of this and the kd4crs mod is to allow the engine to get as much air as it may need and keep it as cool as possible...plus, I just like to tinker with things.

Just my .02.

[Buckeyes903]

I did this mod on my 08' 4.6, it was quite different since it uses the cone style filter, the PVC pipe is about 4 or 5 inches long.

I will post a picture of it when I get a chance if wanted.

[kd4crs]

I have discussed this with Bill a couple of times and he said that he dynoed this type of mod several years ago when he was working up the calibrations for the EDGE Evo tunes. I believe he said that he also tried it with the snorkel removed just breathing air from the engine bay and it showed about the same gains. Personally, I like the idea of going back to the fender and taking cooler air from the stock location since cooler air is more dense and makes more power. Also that location is less likely to ingest any water unless you manage to submarine the nose of the truck, in which case the last thing you will be worried about is where your intake air is coming from. :yikes2:

[AgentOrange]

I did this mod on my 08' 4.6, it was quite different since it uses the cone style filter, the PVC pipe is about 4 or 5 inches long.

I will post a picture of it when I get a chance if wanted.


Post it, I haven't seen the new style yet.

[Buckeyes903]

Post it, I haven't seen the new style yet.

Not mine but with the mod the only difference is where it meets the fender all you can see is the PVC pipe coupler I will get a pic of mine up later

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/buckeyes903/engine.jpg

[kd4crs]

The 04-08 F150s with the 4.6 engine have a different intake and filter arrangement. It also has a snorkel tip that goes into the fender hole so it can be removed and replaced with a straight pipe similar to the DWV intake mod for the 5.4L engine. I think there is also a silencer insert in the intake tube downstream of the filter housing that some folks have removed to improve flow and add a ponies.

EDIT to add: It looks like the 08 pictured above has a different style intake than the 05 with the 4.6 that I looked at regarding the silencer removal. See the link below:

http://www.f150online.com/forums/1821762-post13.html

[Buckeyes903]

Yeah I didn't look at the other part of the intake, it looks all straight through, does that extra part on the front really matter? I just replaced the snorkel with 3 inch PVC, and I even bought black paint to paint the PVC cause I couldn't find black PVC but you can't even see the PVC since the coupler covers it all. I don't think anyone would know I did it cause it looks stock, I'll try to get a pic tomorrow.

[Dfishrmn]

Real interesting thread, don't know how I overlooked this weeks ago. I did this mod about 6 months ago and had it listed on my custom tune sheet when I got my 87 performance tune. My setup is almost identical to Jack's second version except with flat black paint and the painted hose clamp. I also am using an AEM DryFlow panel filter which makes quite a difference over the stock panel filter acording to my "seat of the pants" dyno. I have confirmed this when I removed the AEM to wash it and put the stock filter in until the AEM dried. One other difference I did was to plug the factory baffles from the inside instead of removing them. In theory this should give a smoother air flow over the stock setup (Jack your thoughts?). It does give it a little more "throat" in sound when you open it up. All said and done I've spent less than $5 on parts and about 1 hour in time on the original setup with a little tweaking later. Was definitely worth the effort in my opinion and alot of fun to do! :2thumbs:

[Jackpine]

Real interesting thread, don't know how I overlooked this weeks ago. I did this mod about 6 months ago and had it listed on my custom tune sheet when I got my 87 performance tune. My setup is almost identical to Jack's second version except with flat black paint and the painted hose clamp. I also am using an AEM DryFlow panel filter which makes quite a difference over the stock panel filter acording to my "seat of the pants" dyno. I have confirmed this when I removed the AEM to wash it and put the stock filter in until the AEM dried. One other difference I did was to plug the factory baffles from the inside instead of removing them. In theory this should give a smoother air flow over the stock setup (Jack your thoughts?). It does give it a little more "throat" in sound when you open it up. All said and done I've spent less than $5 on parts and about 1 hour in time on the original setup with a little tweaking later. Was definitely worth the effort in my opinion and alot of fun to do! :2thumbs:

I think you're talking about the "resonators" here? Those three weird things I had no idea what they were for until I started reading forums and learned about intake noise? :hehe:

I'm quite certain they are "dampers" to reduce intake noise. If I'm right, they produce shock waves that cancel the ones that appear in the intake due to the inlet air flow. I doubt plugging them has had much effect except to make your intake louder. I left mine open, and, I think my intake noise is somewhat louder also, but not much. It's possible, quite probable really, that with a different intake area, you might need a different damper configuration. It might be instructive to block them one, two or three at a time in all seven (did I get that right?) combinations. I may try that if I get into a really experimental mood. I really don't think they have much of any effect on the air mass into the throttle body though, so I'd leave them open in the meantime.

Oh, and I've painted my hose clamp too. I know that's added 30 HP and 25 ft-lbs of torque! :2thumbs: :smiley_roll1: :rofl:

- Jack

[04FX4]

Well installed the streight pipe on my truck yesterday. Took about 1.5 hours sanding and fitting. I hope it makes things flow better, and give me a little more HP. This was a great idea. Cheap to..

[Power Hungry]

Okay...

I finally got the writeup in the FAQ section. :2thumbs:

F-150 Intake Snorkel Removal (http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/faq.php?faq=technical#faq_snorkel1)

Thanks to all those who contributed. Keep those ideas coming so we can build a nice library of technical documentation. :D


In regards to the Dyno testing of the snorkel, I've tested both the snorkel mod both with the replacement tube and just the open bellows with nearly identical results in both HP and AFR. This leads me to believe that turbulence that far upstream is not an issue in relation to either efficiency or MAF accuracy. It is certainly more stable than kits like the K&N which moves the MAF sensor mounting location 12" towards the air filter to end up about 6" away. Tell me that's not going to be affected by turbulence. :o

Anyway, given the data I've compiled on the this modification, I'd sooner do this modification rather than spend money on a CAI.

[Jackpine]

Nicely edited, Bill! :2thumbs:

- Jack

[kd4crs]

Bill,

Thank you very much for publishing the information along with your insights, and giving it a home. I'm certain that this will help lots of people get a little more from their trucks without costing an arm and a leg. :cool_beans:

[88Racing]

Bill,

Thank you for publishing the mod and putting it where others and lurkers can find it easily. Thanks to everyone else for outstanding contributions and their great job. Also, I remembered something KISS. Won't let that go again!

Lars

[Jim Allen]

I've got a request in for a little flowbench time. I'll test the mod exactly as it's shown, versus the stock. I'll even try an AEM panel filter I have with it and a Brute Force intake as well. Should be a nice comparo

[kd4crs]

Jim, that is exactly the setup I am running with the AEM dryflo panel filter and the DWV intake mod. I am very curious to see the results. Thanks for taking the time to test this for everyone. :2thumbs:

[92 5.0]

The 3 inch pipe is in what section of the store? I have never seen black PVC before?

[kd4crs]

It is black 3 inch ID ABS DWV pipe from the plumbing section.

[88Racing]

Look or ask for ABS drain waste vent pipe in the plumbing section. Its commonly cheaper than pvc and only requires a one step glue. The pipe is already black and the glue is usually black also. Not all hardware supply stores carry ABS pipe for it may not meet plumbing code in the area they are selling it in. Why keep it on hand if no one can use it.

Lars
:thumbsup:
:gryphon:

[92 5.0]

Yea looking on the website I don't think they carry that up here in Wisconsin.

[Mark_123]

Here's the 3" piece of flex PVC I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200253587568

[Extreme Justice]

Jack,

I checked the web sites for both stores and Lowe's has them on the web site but Home Depot does not. Home Depot may carry them but I can't be certain since they are not on their web site. You may also be able to find a similar item at a local plumbing supply house. Anyway, here is the Lowe's link:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=23455-34146-RDSC&lpage=none

I tried to adhere to the KISS principle during the whole development process for this mod. :)

This is what I found from the Homedepot site. Would this work? is it the same thing as Lowe's. Looks different.

Have a look

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=977091&Ntt=977091&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

[kd4crs]

I don't think it will fit the outside diameter of the female coupler. That transition is meant to fit the outside diameter of 4 inch pipe. You may be able to order the downspout connector over the web.

[Jackpine]

This is what I found from the Homedepot site. Would this work? is it the same thing as Lowe's. Looks different.

Have a look

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=977091&Ntt=977091&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

It's kinda similar, but not the same. The thing at Lowes is a PVC connector. The reducing coupler you found at Home Depot is rubber. I don't think it will fit into the fender hole.

I think if you don't have a Lowes nearby and you want to make the mod using the approach kd4crs did, you should order the Lowes part over the internet.

- Jack

[92 5.0]

where to buy and what size caps/plugs did you need to cap off where the baffles were? Is it louder now with the baffles removed?

Hi guys & gals, brand new to this forum. I stumbled across it while checking out other homemade CAIs after tinkering with one of my own and this was the first one I've seen that had an excellent one for the 2004 +. I like the caron fiber idea.
Here is a pic of what I came up with (hopefully the pic works):
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff251/rjohnson6855/Intake%20Mod/100_5989.jpg

[AgentOrange]

Got them from Lowes. I'll try to get the sizes for you tomorrow. I have not noticed a difference in sound, but I'm still using the stock air filter. There might be a difference with a K&N replacement filter...but not sure.

[Jim Allen]

Agent Orang: Did you ever make a parts list of the pices used in your adaptation? If so, could you refer me to the post If not, could you list them. If you do, I will flow bench your mod too. Thanks.

[AgentOrange]

Agent Orang: Did you ever make a parts list of the pices used in your adaptation? If so, could you refer me to the post If not, could you list them. If you do, I will flow bench your mod too. Thanks.

Here ya go...
Parts List for the cold/ram air mod (everything was purchased from Lowe's):
Item # Description Price
184176 3"x8' Flex Aluminum Duct $9.57
22735 3" Wht PVC S&D 90D Elbow $2.43
23463 3" No-Hub Coupling Flexible $3.77
22917 3" Flexible Tee w/ Clamps $12.93

Thanks Jim!
BTW, I am currently using the stock Motorcraft filter, I'm interested to see the difference a high flow fliter would make to this mod...

Parts List for the baffle elimination mod for 92 5.0 (again, everything was purchased from Lowe's):
23406 2" PVC Test Cap 131 0800 $0.57
1-1/2" Lasko SCH 40 Cap , 1-1/4" SCH 40 Cap- item #'s and prices are unknown because the pieces did not have a price tag on it and the guy at the register did not want to bother with it, so he gave them to me.

:doh: Forgot to add Black RTV Silicone used to adhere the caps to the tube and flat black spray paint.

[88Racing]

Well got everything in and looks great! We'll see how she runs next weekend. By the way where's a good place to get a AEM dry flo replacement filter.
Lars

[kd4crs]

Got mine at AJ-USA for about $35. Here is the link:

http://www.ajusa.com/details/index/481/AEM/4786/0/0/0/AEM%2028-20287DK/0/0/FX4;%20V8;%205.4L;%20GAS

[88Racing]

Thank you kd4crs I'll get the filter ordered tonight.

Lars

[lanemeyer]

Alright, so I took the cone off the end of the intake, and for now just have it open in the engine compartment. Do I need to unhook the battery before driving? Positive or Negative.

I have not added a new snorkel yet, I cant get the abs pipe in town. i don't like the white PVC pipe I can get. I am still looking for something that is similar to oem like tubing. I tried a shop vac wand but it is 2.5" diameter, close no cigar, next thought is a leaf blower/vac tube, but being it is February in NE they have not put them out yet.

[Jackpine]

Alright, so I took the cone off the end of the intake, and for now just have it open in the engine compartment. Do I need to unhook the battery before driving? Positive or Negative.

I have not added a new snorkel yet, I cant get the abs pipe in town. i don't like the white PVC pipe I can get. I am still looking for something that is similar to oem like tubing. I tried a shop vac wand but it is 2.5" diameter, close no cigar, next thought is a leaf blower/vac tube, but being it is February in NE they have not put them out yet.

Unhook the battery? No, I don't think so. unhooking it will FORCE the PCM to relearn everything over a period of several drive cycles, but, unless I'm totally wrong here, it relearns everything anyway, just at a slower rate. And, you possibly don't want it to get too fond of the intake in the engine compartment, since you're planning to get the inlet back into the fender well.

You COULD paint the PVC pipe black, you know. :cheesy smile: My black painted hose clamp came out looking super and added at least 100 HP! :giggle: (Suppose I should post a picture of the final, glorious, all-black, $8 mod, right)?

I found the ABS in Home Depot. I think it may be sewer piping.

- Jack

[Dfishrmn]

Unhook the battery? No, I don't think so. unhooking it will FORCE the PCM to relearn everything over a period of several drive cycles, but, unless I'm totally wrong here, it relearns everything anyway, just at a slower rate. And, you possibly don't want it to get too fond of the intake in the engine compartment, since you're planning to get the inlet back into the fender well.

You COULD paint the PVC pipe black, you know. :cheesy smile: My black painted hose clamp came out looking super and added at least 100 HP! :giggle: (Suppose I should post a picture of the final, glorious, all-black, $8 mod, right)?

I found the ABS in Home Depot. I think it may be sewer piping.

- Jack

Jack,
Boy that paint must get better with age! Last time you told it only added 30hp.:happy-dancing:

[lanemeyer]

I think it has to do with the building codes in the area, no one carries the abs pipe.

Wow 100 HP that is amazing:cheesy smile:

[Jackpine]

I think it has to do with the building codes in the area, no one carries the abs pipe.

Wow 100 HP that is amazing:cheesy smile:

And, maybe by tomorrow it will be 200HP! :yikes2: Like "fine wine".... :giggle:

Got to get that picture!

- Jack

[88Racing]

It's getting deep!

Lars

[Power Hungry]

Time to get the waders on.... :waders:

[Jackpine]

OK, here we are - the final "All Black" (apologies to the New Zealand Rugby team) version of my homemade CAI:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/BlackCAI1.jpg

I compressed the bellows pretty much to give it some room to expand under engine torque and not pull the tube out of the fender wall. I noticed that earlier, when I had slid the bellows down the tube farther, it had pulled the tube out about 1/2 inch after a hard acceleration (because the engine twists away from the fender wall in this state).

Another view:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/BlackCAI3.jpg

It's a fairly neat assembly, and even though the airflow curve is not as "smooth" as I'd like, I think it directs the flow fairly well.

- Jack

[lynn2437]

I understand why I need to unhook my battery, but for how long and also what terminal? I have reasearched alot on this mod and others like it and I'm getting conflicting times (from ten minutes to 24 hours) and differences on which terminal. I also read some where about turning on your lights or ignition or something to drain something? What does this mean.

Jack, Bill, anybody have clarifications for me?

Thanks,
Lynn

[Power Hungry]

ALWAYS... ALWAYS... ALWAYS... unhook the NEGATIVE battery cable first. There's not conflicting story on this, this is how it is and is basic Mechanics 101. There are two reasons for this:

1) If you are wrenching on the positive terminal and happen to bump the body or any other metal part of the vehicle or engine, you have an instant arc welder. Since nearly every car manufactured today is "negative ground", meaning that the the negative battery terminal is attached to the body, frame, and engine, if you were to accidentally short your wrench while undoing the negative cable, nothing will happen. If you short across the battery terminals... well, it wouldn't matter which side you are working at that point. :yikes2:

2) If you remove the positive battery cable and it should happen to touch the negative battery terminal or body, there is a chance that you could cause a sudden capacitive discharge in any of the onboard electronics which could damage them.

After removing the NEGATIVE battery cable, many people say to turn on the headlight switch in order to induce a drain to discharge any residual stored voltage in any of the electronics, including the PCM. Since in most cases there is already about 300-500 mA of current draw on the vehicle's systems, not to mention additional load from the dome lamps (if the doors are still open) and the hood lamp (if it's not broken), turning on the headlights won't hurt but probably isn't necessary. I've always let it sit 10-15 minutes, but seriously doubt anything over 30 seconds is necessary. Considering that the KAM (Keep Alive Memory) is akin to the memory presets of your radio, you'll find out in short order how long it takes to clear the PCM.

Hope this helps.

[lynn2437]

ALWAYS... ALWAYS... ALWAYS... unhook the NEGATIVE battery cable first. There's not conflicting story on this, this is how it is and is basic Mechanics 101. There are two reasons for this:

1) If you are wrenching on the positive terminal and happen to bump the body or any other metal part of the vehicle or engine, you have an instant arc welder. Since nearly every car manufactured today is "negative ground", meaning that the the negative battery terminal is attached to the body, frame, and engine, if you were to accidentally short your wrench while undoing the negative cable, nothing will happen. If you short across the battery terminals... well, it wouldn't matter which side you are working at that point. :yikes2:

2) If you remove the positive battery cable and it should happen to touch the negative battery terminal or body, there is a chance that you could cause a sudden capacitive discharge in any of the onboard electronics which could damage them.

After removing the NEGATIVE battery cable, many people say to turn on the headlight switch in order to induce a drain to discharge any residual stored voltage in any of the electronics, including the PCM. Since in most cases there is already about 300-500 mA of current draw on the vehicle's systems, not to mention additional load from the dome lamps (if the doors are still open) and the hood lamp (if it's not broken), turning on the headlights won't hurt but probably isn't necessary. I've always let it sit 10-15 minutes, but seriously doubt anything over 30 seconds is necessary. Considering that the KAM (Keep Alive Memory) is akin to the memory presets of your radio, you'll find out in short order how long it takes to clear the PCM.

Hope this helps.

Thats what I knew also (always negative first). I am glad you clarified for those who may be unsure because there are posts on other forums telling people to unhook positive and/or negative and I wanted to make sure if it was just negative or both posts.

I did the mod today and everything turned out great. Noticed a nice bump in throttle response. Great mod IMO!

-Lynn

[Jackpine]

Glad you liked the mod, Lynn. I'm not really sure I can feel any big change, but it was sure fun to do. And, it SEEMS like it should do better at high RPMs. :shrug:

I saw a post in another forum that talked about touching the positive cable to the negative post. It gave me a "queasy" feeling, but I couldn't really see any super harm. I DO like Bill's opinion though. From personal testing, there's a lot of things sucking current all the time, so very soon after you disconnect the negative cable, the whole system is going to be dead.

And, boy; if you should happen to touch a ground while unscrewing the positive terminal (with the negative still connected), the number of amps that would suddenly try to go through your wrench would probably light up a whole city! OK, not quite, but the spark and heat would be pretty scary!

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

Once, I accidentally dropped a wrench across the batter terminals. It sparked and popped for a second till it welded to the terminals and literally meted the end of the wrench off, along with the battery terminals. It doesn't take much to melt lead.

Scared the begeezus out of me. Just luck the battery didn't explode (which I've had happen before, too). Nasty stuff... :yikes2:

[88Racing]

Whenever I work on batteries I use a clean rag or shop towel and cover the opposite terminal. Cheap insurance! I also use plastic coated wrenches but rag works the best!

Depending on what vehicle you are working on, watch out and understand mfgs tsb and/or service proceedures on batteries. Some of the newer vehicles won't start until a code is entered into the radio or via a scan tool, after working on the battery.
Also follow Bill's post #131 in this thread.
Lars

[Jackpine]

That's a great tip about covering the other terminal, Lars! :thumbs up yellow:

Interesting about no-start conditions in some vehicles.

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

I always use a fender cover now. Covers the battery and keeps the truck from getting scratched. It's a win-win!

[lynn2437]

Well, I cleaned my throttle body, went with a k&n and did the intake mod all in the same day so for me I did notice quite an improvment. Now I need something else to keep me busy with my truck without spending alot of money! I heard about the TPS mod/adjustment, any thoughts?

-Lynn

[Buckeyes903]

Quick question about the mod. :idea: I did this mod about 3 weeks ago, but I never un-hooked the negative terminal to reset the computer.:doh: By now has the computer learned to run with the extra air, or would it be in my best interest to reset the computer? :shrug: Thanks for any help!

[Power Hungry]

Don't bother with the battery. There's really no reason to mess with it when doing the snorkel mod. All that's really happening is that the modest restriction is being alleviated allowing a little more flow at higher RPM. However, this mod DOES NOT AFFECT the Mass Airflow Sensor and doesn't significantly change AFR like a CAI does. The MAF sensor still accurately reflects the airflow into the engine and the computer handles everything from there.

[Buckeyes903]

Sounds good to me. :happy-dancing:

[jimmyv13]

Would this need to be noted on a Gryphon order form?

[Power Hungry]

You could... Always nice to know what's on the truck. I don't think it's absolutely necessary, though.

[Jackpine]

Don't bother with the battery. There's really no reason to mess with it when doing the snorkel mod. All that's really happening is that the modest restriction is being alleviated allowing a little more flow at higher RPM. However, this mod DOES NOT AFFECT the Mass Airflow Sensor and doesn't significantly change AFR like a CAI does. The MAF sensor still accurately reflects the airflow into the engine and the computer handles everything from there.

Thank you Bill - That's good to know. I sort of thought the same thing, but I remembered some posts over on f150online that recommended disconnecting the battery, so, I did it too.

They've asked me to post this mod over there in their "how to" forum and I will, after cleaning it up a bit. I'll add this bit of information from you too.

- Jack

[kd4crs]

They've asked me to post this mod over there in their "how to" forum and I will, after cleaning it up a bit. I'll add this bit of information from you too.

- Jack

Now that is funny. :confused: I am the one who originally posted this mod over there and it caused so much controversy and fighting that I had to ask RockPick to delete the whole thread for the good of the site. :sigh:

:readthis:
EDIT to add: I am referring only to my specific variation of this type of mod for the 5.4L 3valve motor which I designed and tested in Sept. 2005. That is when I posted about it and got jumped by all the cheerleaders for the various vendors and users of commercial CAIs.

[Power Hungry]

Fate is fickle and cruel. :(

[Jackpine]

It is indeed, fickle, kd4crs. I would have been happy to credit your input there too, like I tried to do here, but I don't know if you used the same screen name (I suppose I COULD have searched, but oh, well). Actually, I was in a hurry to get the post up because Rockpick threatened to change my user title to: "I wear a thong" if I didn't. (I'm not kidding)! :o

That's a funny forum though. It seems to attract a few souls who have nothing better to do than to put down anybody and anything. I'm beginning to see it again over "Use the search button!" on FNGs. Too bad, there's some good, knowledgeable people on it and we would benefit if the less tolerant would just remain quiet.

- Jack

[kd4crs]

I used the same screen name. I would appreciate it if you could at least give me credit for the variation that I contributed. Thanks.

[Jackpine]

Done, David -

If you'll go to this thread, in the permanent "How To" forum of f150online, you'll see I've provided a link to the FAQ post here, and, you'll notice I "chided" the members there for not being more receptive to you. It's post #4 in the thread right now and should not get lost with the passage of time like the more ephemeral threads.

http://www.f150online.com/forums/articles-news-how-tos/368044-do-yourself-intake-modification-2004-2008-a.html#post3624441

- Jack

[kd4crs]

Thank you very much, Jack. :2thumbs: I do appreciate it.

[jimmyv13]

Am I the only one to not find the 4x3 downspout connector at HD or Lowe's? It also appears that I'll have to paint the PVC since no one carries in in black.

[Jackpine]

Am I the only one to not find the 4x3 downspout connector at HD or Lowe's? It also appears that I'll have to paint the PVC since no one carries in in black.

The painted PVC will work fine. It seems there is a great variance in what you can find in different stores around the country! I have not found the 4x3 downspout connector here either.

- Jack

[jimmyv13]

I ordered the downspout connector online and it should be in my local Lowe's store in 2 days. I'll just buy the white PVC pipe and coupler and paint it...

[kd4crs]

I don't see any reason why the painted PVC shouldn't work. Just be sure to use a paint intended for plastics and it should be fine.

[jimmyv13]

I know it will work...I just didn't want to have to mess with painting it.

[88Racing]

I know it will work...I just didn't want to have to mess with painting it.

Look at it this way. Now you can pick any paint color you would like! Or maybe just black.

Lars

[kd4crs]

I know it will work...I just didn't want to have to mess with painting it.
When I said it should work I was thinking in terms of the outer diameter. Anyway you should be fine. :o

[jimmyv13]

When I said it should work I was thinking in terms of the outer diameter. Anyway you should be fine. :o

I might be confusing the two different types of pipe here. Is there a difference in the white and black pipes? When I went to Lowe's the DWV stuff they showed me was corrugated and flexible. They didn't know what I was talking about when I asked for a rigid DWV pipe, much like the white PVC, but in black.

[Jackpine]

I don't know how well the corrugated pipe would work. What I've seen has fairly thin walls, and, if the outside diameter is right for the bellows, then it might have trouble fitting into the fender hole. However, it's not that expensive, and if it looks like it might work, I say give it a try. If it fits, it will work just fine.

The white PVC pipe is Sch 40, and has fairly thick walls. Dimensionally, it is identical to the black ABS pipe that I used.

There is little or no stress on this part of the intake. You can use just about anything that gives you the "tube" effect there.

- Jack

[jimmyv13]

I didn't want to use the corregated stuff since it's not smooth inside and that may disrupt the air flow....and it doesn't look as good as the smooth sch 40 pipe.

[txarsoncop]

There is "straight" sewer pipe that is schedule 20 PVC, usually used for septic systems. It's gonna half to 2/3s thinner than schedule 40 and much more flexible. It may be flexible enough to squeeze into the oblong shape in the inner fenders. If it couldn't be squeezed into fitting in the hole you wouldn't have enough material to shape it into fitting though.

Ya'll gotta keep in mind that these Lowes, Home Depot folks generally aren't "from the trade" so they might not be familiar with the products and/or what their intended purposes are.

FWIW, my local Lowes had the PVC test caps that AgentOrange used in his build. I used a 2" and a 1.5" test cap. Need to go back and get a 1" plug for the other hole.

I'll post a couple of pix when i get the plug but I've trimmed the rims off the caps & I'll do the same to the plug along with cutting it short so it doesn't project so far into the intake's air stream. Gives it a pretty clean look.

bill
the new guy

[jimmyv13]

The guy at Lowe's told me to not screw with the intake on any vehicle "the manufacturer builds them like that for a specific reason"...after I told him what I was doing with it. I said, "Well, my reasons are different than Fords". He didn't offer much help.

[txarsoncop]

Oh yeah, I wouldn't tell them anything like that because you might end up with some hard core enviromentalist or something. I always leave it vague and tell them it's for a "project i'm doing..."

bill

[Power Hungry]

I can only imagine the look on the dude's face!! :disbelief::notallthere:

[kd4crs]

I might be confusing the two different types of pipe here. Is there a difference in the white and black pipes? When I went to Lowe's the DWV stuff they showed me was corrugated and flexible. They didn't know what I was talking about when I asked for a rigid DWV pipe, much like the white PVC, but in black.
The main difference is what it is made out of. The black pipe I used is ABS and is labeled DWV on the roll stamping. PVC should work as long as the outside diameter is the same. I have not tried PVC myself, though.

[txarsoncop]

Since I've been following this mod here and at F150online I can't remember which thread it was mentioned in...

DWV in ABS should be dimensionally identical to schedule 40 PVC.

DWV fittings in PVC will fit sch. 40 pipe & fittings, they're just not rated for pressure; hence their classification as Drain/Waste/Vent.

The reason some of you can't find black ABS piping is because either state, county or city codes don't allow for it. The only advantage to ABS pipe (other than being black already) is that it is cheaper than PVC. But similar to schedule 20 PVC it is not as durable as sch. 40 so many codes do not allow for it.

For the small amount of pipe/fittings being used you might as well use PVC if you can't readily find ABS and not sweat it. A little flat black paint and it'll look like ABS...

bill

[jimmyv13]

I got all of the parts today. SCH 40 PVC works with the downspout connector perfectly. If March Madness would go away, I'd have this done tonight, but it's looking more towards a tomorrow morning project.

[jimmyv13]

Got it all installed...It's probably in my head, but the intake "noise" sounded louder.

I'm thinking a PHP sticker on there is in order!!! Hopefully it would mesh nicely with my Gryphon and new catback.

[txarsoncop]

That's the only thing I miss... I got a bit of intake noise but nothing like what you get with an aftermarket CAI.

I grew up on carbureted engines, I WANT to hear that intake roar when I go WOT!!! The Volant I had on my '99 F150 w/5.4 was delicious! Sounded almost like the '76 'Burban 4X4 400 w/Holley 4 bbl I drove in high school... and $.68/gallon gas to boot! :2thumbs:

[88Racing]

Got it all installed...It's probably in my head, but the intake "noise" sounded louder.

I'm thinking a PHP sticker on there is in order!!! Hopefully it would mesh nicely with my Gryphon and new catback.

Be prepared! When that sticker goes on it instantly adds 35 ponies!

Just kidding!

Lars

[jimmyv13]

Sweet, where's the sticker? I need all the help I can get...

[88Racing]

Sweet, where's the sticker? I need all the help I can get...

Email or call Corey she can probably set you up with as many as you want!

Lars

[jimmyv13]

Email or call Corey she can probably set you up with as many as you want!

Lars

Maybe Corey is reading this and she'll throw a sticker in with the Gryphon before she ships it today :whistle1:

[88Racing]

Start a thread in prayer requests, and may be and you'll get more!

Just kidding!

I think you get one anyway with the gryphon and some awesome mints!

Sorry for the tangent.

Lars

[txarsoncop]

Ok here's pix of mine, complete with very dirrrrrty engine compartment:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m151/txarsoncop/Truck%20stuff/DSC02372.jpg

I used a 2" test/knock out cap, 1.5" test/knock out cap and a 1" plug.

Another shot:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m151/txarsoncop/Truck%20stuff/DSC02378.jpg

The "ring" you can see on the far end of the PVC is about 1" of a 3" coupling. There's no need to use a whole coupling for an application like this. I didn't even glue it. I shaped the 2" of pipe that protrude into the fender and still had to beat the "bit-o-coupling" onto the pipe. Trust me, it ain't moving.

I had cut the coupling to match the Downspout Connector but then decided I didn't want to use the DC. Used the coupling anyway because it looked cleaner than my shaping job and I'm keeping an eye out for a suitable sealing material to go between the "bit-o-coupling" and the fender. Partly for a more factory look, partly for grins and partly out of OCDness... :crazy:

Sawzall really effed up part of the tubing, the guard scratched it up some... ach well. Maybe some other day I'll work on cleaning that up. Fixing that will mean smoothing the whole thing though.

[jimmyv13]

That's next on my list...taking off those "mufflers". Looks much better...

[Lepricon]

How long do u have to leave the battery disconnected to reset the PCM?

[txarsoncop]

I've usually done it for a minute. It's been posted that for this mod it's not really necessary though, unless you've done a bunch of other stuff at the same time.

[Jackpine]

I disconnected the battery for a few minutes after I did mine. But now I realize there was no point in doing so. There's really nothing new for the PCM to "relearn".

- Jack

[Jackpine]

Txarsoncop - I really had to laugh when I saw your nice shiny CAI in your "camouflaged as a desert" engine bay! :hehe: Kind of like wearing shorts with cowboy boots and a cowboy hat. :smiley_roll1:

But, the intake sure is purty! :thumbs up yellow:

- Jack

[JWBFX4]

Txarsoncop - I really had to laugh when I saw your nice shiny CAI in your "camouflaged as a desert" engine bay! :hehe: Kind of like wearing shorts with cowboy boots and a cowboy hat. :smiley_roll1:

But, the intake sure is purty! :thumbs up yellow:

- Jack

:hehe: I knew someone would say that before to long...but hey its a good way to tell where the new addition is. :beers:

[SinCityFX4]

So....though I could toss this in there. Sorry if it needs to be elsewhere but with the intake creativity you guys have it moght fit in.

Took some pics of the 09 intake...
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/Drkharbinger/utf-8BSU1HMDAzNTQtMjAwOTAzMTktMTUzM.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/Drkharbinger/utf-8BSU1HMDAzNTYtMjAwOTAzMTktMTUzO.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/Drkharbinger/utf-8BSU1HMDAzNTUtMjAwOTAzMTktMTUzO.jpg


Interesting setup...it's got some mod possibilities for you engineering masters eh. :thumbs up yellow:

[88Racing]

Interesting they went back to a remote filter box?

Lars

[SinCityFX4]

It's friggin wierd. I guess I will have to go back and get more pics but I am curious as to the fx and setup of some of the pieces. Like the piece that comes of right after the hose clamp but before the bellows and goes down.

They moved alot around and not sure why? The main relay box is front and center too..:shrug:

[txarsoncop]

Txarsoncop - I really had to laugh when I saw your nice shiny CAI in your "camouflaged as a desert" engine bay! :hehe: Kind of like wearing shorts with cowboy boots and a cowboy hat. :smiley_roll1:

But, the intake sure is purty! :thumbs up yellow:

- Jack

That was for instructional purposes of course. Had everything been all nice and shiny there wouldn't have been enough contrast to highlight the changes.

Sheesh, don't you people know anything! slams door......


:cheesy smile: :howdy:

[Jackpine]

That was for instructional purposes of course. Had everything been all nice and shiny there wouldn't have been enough contrast to highlight the changes.

Sheesh, don't you people know anything! slams door......


:cheesy smile: :howdy:

Of course, :doh: stupid of me! I can be Sooo dense, sometimes! :shrug:

Thanks for being so "tactful" in your explanation! :smiley_roll1:

- Jack

[SubiGT]

Again, when I get questions about leaving the end of the tube open, I always end up going back to the 60's & 70's cars that had air cleaners with the snorkel that barely made it past the valve covers.

From a performance aspect, cooler air is always more desirable than warmer air. Although, like Jack, I wonder just how much warmer the air really is getting in the intake tube when blasting along at 70 MPH. This would be an easy thing to validate since the programmers have ACT in the PIDS. If it was less than 10º difference, I'd wonder just how necessary it really is to complete the tube connection to the fender.

As for CAIs, there's no question they're drawing some amount of warm air from under the hood. Again, a quick check of the ACT before and after installing will give you the final word.
I have the OEM airtube open. I also just got my Gryphon. The ACT(PID) and OAT in the factory gauge cluster were 8deg split all day today. 54(OAT) was 62(ACT). The ACT would climb when sitting, but would quickly drop to the 8deg difference when moving.

I am going to get a 12" section of black ABS, but I really don't expect to see the ACT ever reach the OAT.

[AgentOrange]

Sawzall really effed up part of the tubing, the guard scratched it up some... ach well. Maybe some other day I'll work on cleaning that up. Fixing that will mean smoothing the whole thing though.

Glad to see I'm not the only one that hates those baffles!


I had the same problem with scratches from my jig saw when I cut mine. Cutting it from the bottom side would have hidden scratches...oh well, live and learn.

It turned out great, good job!

Eventually, I want to get rid of the caps and smooth the openings with some type of filler...just haven't figured out what to use yet.

[txarsoncop]

Eventually, I want to get rid of the caps and smooth the openings with some type of filler...just haven't figured out what to use yet.

I thought the same thing! I could get my hands inside to all three openings and I thought about taping wax paper to the inside and trying to use the epoxy to seal up the holes...

But then I figured I couldn't match the texture of the intake tube and it would probably need some matrix like a fiberglass cloth or redneck it with screen cloth to help support it; at least while it was drying.

So I got lazy, but I think it's the best possible result w/o doing a LOT of work.

[jimmyv13]

Anyone think it's worth it to use an aftermarket drop in filter with this set up?

[Jackpine]

I entered this post a while back: http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6512&postcount=2 No one challenged me on it (which doesn't make it true, but it's my feelings on the subject).

I honestly don't see what a "super" filter does for you after 100 miles (except cost more than the OEM brand). Now a cheap knockoff can be a problem - for instance what would happen if the cheap one developed a hole in use?

Again, I'm quite open to having my opinion changed - all I need is a good counter-argument.

- Jack

[txarsoncop]

Ok, for those of us who gleefully cut off our Helmholtz resonators (learn something new every day)...

What do the more learned among you think about this information?

Helmholtz resonators (http://www.dinamoto.it/DINAMOTO/on-line%20papers/risuonatore/risuonatore.html) :twitch: Caution: MUCH geek-speak here!
Although this dumb firefighter was able to get the gist of it.


They dampen resonance... Duh.
They make the intake air act "springy" so it fills the combustion chamber more effectively giving us better combustion.


Hmmm, not so sure whipping out that SawZall was such a great idea after all...

Do we need to try to get someone to flow bench or dyno the with and without resonators versions to see if there's a real difference? Seems to me that would be the only answer. Dyno both versions on the same truck and see what the results are.

[jimmyv13]

If they are so beneficial, why don't aftermarket CAI's have them?

[Jackpine]

Bill - I think you're right on the tests needed with and without the resonators. And, don't feel bad about finding that article a difficult read - part of the reason you did is that the guy can't write! He uses words without regard to their meaning so that several sentences are nonsensical. However, I suspect his math is valid for the systems he's studied (which does not match our trucks).

As I said somewhere near the beginning of this thread, fluid flow (air in the duct acts like an fluid) is a very complex, and poorly understood process. I say it's poorly understood because the mathematical models make too many assumptions that allow it to be studied, but that do not allow a precise prediction of the outcome (there's always a bit of error between the predicted results and the actual observed results).

I was concerned about the possible bad effects of turbulence in the duct and it would be very easy I think to create a sort of "standing wave" that would interfere with movement of the air mass into the engine. I would still like to have a smoothly "curved" snorkel section that would turn to match the angle of the intake tube more smoothly than what I have right now. I think the sharp angle I have at the bellows can create problems.

The article seems to say that the resonators act to reduce the effects of turbulence and standing waves.

But, in our case, the resonators were designed for the original duct with the factory snorkel. I honestly have no idea if they are beneficial with the larger intake opening or are actually harmful. However, I felt leaving them on was more prudent than removing them. It also allowed me to return the setup to stock if I chose.

I can only report that the truck seems to run well at WOT and I've noticed no loss in power or adverse effects on gas mileage. Other people seem to say the same for their mods with the resonators removed.

So, the effects of the resonators are probably not enormously significant. (And, sorry if I got "geeky" too)! :o

- Jack

[Jackpine]

If they are so beneficial, why don't aftermarket CAI's have them?

Jimmy, your question is good too. My uneducated guess is that the aftermarket CAI manufacturers don't have the engineering brainpower or facilities that Ford has. They take a more "trial and error", "common sense" approach - similar to what we did when we "reasoned" that a wider snorkel would be good.

- Jack

[txarsoncop]

Jack,

Thanks, you confirmed what I thought I was reading.

Granted I understand fluid dynamics are tricky, tricky. So take my musings below with a grain of salt. But, I live next to a PERFECT example of fluid dynamics gone wrong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vEJPntsrgU). Plus being a firefighter and having a master plumber for a father I understand the "common sense" wet side pretty well.

The author of the article was referring to a single cylinder engine and, at first, I thought well that's totally wrong for our 8 cyl application. But then I thought I remembered that with a V8 only 2 cylinders are opening at once correct? So it's not really that much different? Except for a convoluted intake path, a filter media and unexplained holes in both the resonators and intake tube.

If I'm remembering correctly I believe you posited somewhere here that the holes might actually be to remove some of the "springyness."


I rounded the edges of my PVC with the Dremel and a file because it just seemed to make sense. Probably didn't make a difference but... :shrug:

[88Racing]

Here's some ?'s for you guys also to ponder.

Do you ever think of where our filter is on a stock location compared to a cai?

Do you ever think of how much more volume a vacuum needs to displace when you have a cai?

Do you think the snorkle nozzle help to create vacuum and velocity at the same time?

Just some thoughts as I was doing a fire pump test today and had to use reducer nozzles to increase flow pressure at the hose monster pitot gauge.

Lars

[kd4crs]

I just got around to purchasing the alternate rigid 3 inch tubing that fordmt08 on f150onloine.com used for his intake modification and it looks like it will work well installed a couple of different ways. The tubing required is made by Spectre Peformance. It is part number 8741 for the black color (8742 is Red, 8746 is Blue, 8748 is Silver) and it is called: 3" Flexible Air Duct. It is priced ~$20 and should be available at O'Reilly Auto Parts and Autozone stores. I installed it completely collapsed using one of the two connectors that come with the kit to go into the fender inlet and using the downspout connector to connect to the stock flexible section. It fits perfectly and does not require any hose clamps. I will be testing it out with my Gryphon Custom 87 performance and Custom 87 towing tunes this week. This variation completely eliminates any possibility of the downspout connector collapsing or getting sucked inside out.

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=398

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=29&pictureid=399

[schwinn1weld]

Hi guys & gals, brand new to this forum. I stumbled across it while checking out other homemade CAIs after tinkering with one of my own and this was the first one I've seen that had an excellent one for the 2004 +. I like the caron fiber idea.
Here is a pic of what I came up with (hopefully the pic works):
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff251/rjohnson6855/Intake%20Mod/100_5989.jpg
Looks Great, but what did you use to cap the holes on your main intake tube? Looks awesome how you did that...

[Longshot270]

First I want to say WOW! this thread has exploded since the first time I skimmed over it. I did the gotts with my 08 4.6L and here are some of the pics.

The first one is the section of PVC that goes into the fender and the second shows how it fits. The big section taken from the 'bottom' of the pipe lets it fit in the flat area of the fender hole snug. The little cuts on the 'top' help hold the pipe in place. I cut it like that because I didn't have any large grit sand paper and I think they work pretty well because they bend to hold the pipe in place. I also used a 3 in flexible coupling to attatch it to the intake. Pretty soon I may work on a ram air type of intake but I'm still working on the idea. Making stuff fit in the 4.6's is difficult. :nerd:

[Jackpine]

Nice pics, Longshot. I think what you've designed will work just fine. I clamped the bellows on my snorkel tube so that the bellows are nearly fully compressed. That way, if the engine moves, and it will under high acceleration, it won't pull the snorkel out of the fender.

- Jack

[Longshot270]

Thanks, I'm thinking about making some kind of ram but there isn't much space so I'll keep looking at it. I believe that if something didn't have those "stop and scratch head" moments then it's not finished. :hehe:
Well one thing that is kind of good about the 4.6s is that part of their box is attatched underneath so they dont move at all. But the tube afterwards has enough play to handle any movement the engine makes.

[kennyd]

Hi Jack, thanks for the info on the gotts mod, I think its a logical starting point. Do you think I should also use K+N filter.







OK - I've been reading about this approach to a CAI mod long enough that I decided to try it. Here's what I did - and I take no credit at all for any of this, it was just my implementation of the excellent ideas put out by people that came before me.

In the 2004-2008 trucks, the intake snorkel has only a 2" diameter at the end where it goes into the fender well. Other than that, it's a Cold Air Intake - so, the goal is to increase the intake opening.

We start with the intake ducting. Remove the holddown bolt (red circle) in the picture below and pull the snorkel out of the fender wall (red arrow). Once you do that, you can pull the duct away from the filter box. It will make a lot of noise that sounds like something is breaking - just smile and ignore the bad sounds. :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260001.jpg

Now that you've got the intake duct out, turn it over and you'll see two rectangular "bumps" at each end of the bellows that look like they might be "release tabs". They aren't! Instead, they sit over raised areas on the inside tube that act sort of like "tire irons" to separate the bellows from the other parts of the ducting. I separated the bellows from the duct using the circled "bump" in the picture below. (Notice I like to work on the tailgate of my truck). :o

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260003.jpg

To do this, I put the duct between my knees and then twisted the base of the bellows (where I'm holding it with one hand) all the way around, and it comes right off. (I had to use two hands to do this, but in the picture, one hand was holding the camera).

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260004.jpg

Now that it's off, you can see the duct opening, which is 3" wide here and the little square bump at the top that was the "tire iron".

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260005.jpg

Compare the 2" flared opening of the snorkel that fits inside the fender with the 3" opening of the duct upstream of the bellows and you see why the engine might have trouble getting enough air at WOT.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260006.jpg

I went to Home Depot and bought a 2 ft length of 3" ABS pipe and a 3" to 3" rubber coupler. I wanted to make sure my new duct went into the fender as far as the original snorkel, so I marked my new 3" tube with a white line to match the gasket position.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260008.jpg

Now we have a complication. The hole in the fender is an oval, about 3 1/8" high by 3 1/2" wide. There's actually a small "lip" inside this oval too and I got rid of that lip with a Dremel grinding wheel. The resultant hole is now closer to 3 1/4" high and 3 1/2" wide. (Ignore the dirty fender wall). :o

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260009.jpg

The hardest part: I had to reshape the end of my new snorkel tube back to the white line to match the 3 1/4 x 3 1/2 oval opening. I used a "Mouse" sander, pictured here with the end of the tube that I shaped.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260010.jpg

Here's the finished tube, looking straight down the intake end. The outer surface is cut down so it will just fit into the fender opening. The inside opening is a true 3" intake.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260012.jpg

The new snorkel tube will have to be angled slightly from the rest of the intake to fit into the fender properly. (It needs to enter the fender at close to a right angle), so, the other end of the tube was cut at an angle try to match the truck's tube opening angle. The length of the new snorkel on the long side is 12 1/2 ". The length of the short side is 12".

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260013.jpg

Here, I've joined the two pieces with a 3" to 3" rubber coupler. Leave the "hose clamps" loose for now.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260014.jpg

I put my new snorkel into the fender (at a right angle) and it goes in right up to the line where I stopped shaping it. It's actually through the second hole in the inside of the fender at this point. It fits quite tightly through the opening, so I'm not worried about it getting "warm" engine air.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260015.jpg

Next, I reinserted the stock intake into the filter box opening and reinserted the hold down bolt. This pulled the new snorkel out of the fender a bit. :mad2:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260016.jpg

I worked with the snorkel to redirect it back into the opening as far as possible. It's not quite perfect, but I think it's good enough. (A "bellows" connector would be ideal here). Once I got the snorkel in place, I tightened the hose clamps.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260017.jpg

This is the finished assembly. A true 3" CAI for about $13. Best of all, I can return it to stock in just a few minutes if I want to.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jandjaz/P1260018.jpg

I've disconnected the battery overnight so the PCM will learn a new LTFT strategy and whatever else it has to learn. :confused:

So now, Bill: is there any thing wrong with this setup and, I don't need new tunes, right?

And please, this was not an attempt to one-up anyone. I have not seen a pictorial for the 2004-2008 models and this is my feeble attempt to put into practice what other, brighter people have been talking about for my model truck.

I hope it can be useful.

- Jack

[Jackpine]

Hi Jack, thanks for the info on the gotts mod, I think its a logical starting point. Do you think I should also use K+N filter.

You CAN use a K&N drop in filter. Many people have. I didn't bother because I don't know that it is that much better than the OEM pleated one.

- Jack

[ticopowell]

So i looked at all the intakes that you guys have done, and kinda went my own way to do it. I didnt take any pics while installing it, but i did take a few after so let me know what you all think!

The first is the Y pipe with the 2 flexible hoses coming out.
http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/members/ticopowell-albums-my-new-my-old-trucks-picture637-i-used-y-pipe-home-depot-2-foot-section-black-abs-few-3-3-connectors-go-flexible-pipe-black-abs-pipe-i-also-put-some-flexible-pipe-stock-hole-so-just-case-lower-one-gets-water-something-some-day-when-i-have-more-money-i-might-use-something-better-than-dryer-ducting-haha-d.jpg

This pic is of the duct work in front of the tranny cooler
http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/members/ticopowell-albums-my-new-my-old-trucks-picture636-what-i-used-get-air-intake-stock-intake-location.jpg

This pic is what the intake looks like from the front. It is kinda hard to see with my cell phone camera, but that is all i had.
http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/members/ticopowell-albums-my-new-my-old-trucks-picture635-cant-see-very-well-but-i-put-intake-above-bumper-next-licence-plate.jpg

Well there it is, it didnt take too long to do, and so far it feel better and the Throttle Response is better at speed!

[Jackpine]

Looks good, ticopowell. I'm not sure that the "ram air" intake part is going to do much (Bill posted something on this fairly recently - talking about the Banks Ram intake), but, if the whole installation seems to be giving you positive results, I suspect it IS. I DO like that flex tubing. Seems a smoother airflow path to me.

- Jack

[ticopowell]

Oh and I forgot that I got a K&N drop in filter in there too :D
and yeah if the "ram air" does anything it will be at very high speeds, there is a lot of piping to go through and even if it does up the pressure by much the stock hole that it is still hooked up to will dissipate it... well at least those are my thoughts lol. I will have to go see what Bill said about a "real" ram air intake :hehe:

[Longshot270]

Oh and I forgot that I got a K&N drop in filter in there too :D

That will help, I did the same exact thing on my 4.6L

and yeah if the "ram air" does anything it will be at very high speeds, there is a lot of piping to go through and even if it does up the pressure by much the stock hole that it is still hooked up to will dissipate it... well at least those are my thoughts lol. I will have to go see what Bill said about a "real" ram air intake :hehe:

I have been waiting for someone to notice that bold part on some of the other forums. :whistle1:
I wonder if they make a 3 inch one way flap type valve? (cant think of the technical term right now) If you put that on the stock intake location it would close up if there was a positive amount of pressure, but I dont think it would be worth trying. If you want to see if there is a difference put the MAF and IAT PIDs on the screen with the stock intake and then with the modified. Look at the readings under the same RPM and LOAD(So the 4 you pick would be IAT, MAF, RPM and LOAD).
You would judge improved IATs by degrees from actual temp but the other 3 should be pretty straitforward.
The reason I say both RPM and LOAD is because at 2000 rpm you can have 20 grams/sec of air with minimal load but 70 g/s with increased load. Cruise control will probably be the easiest if you dont want to take a series of datalogs and then stitch them together (not too hard to do though but if your interested but unable you can send them to me).
...hmm maybe I should see the effects of air intake restriction on my intake since there really isn't any info on the 4.6s.

[ticopowell]

Yeah that "might" be worth looking in to, but i think im happy with the cold air from the front of the truck :) and yeah im too lazy and dont care enough to figure out the differences... my butt-dyno says that they are there so i wont complain :smiley_roll1: and i gotta get my gryphon sent in to be updated to my new truck before i do anything!

[Jackpine]

OK, let's look at the "bold faced" statement:. "if it does up the pressure by much the stock hole that it is still hooked up to will dissipate it.."

Remember, you DO always have constant airflow UP the intake into the engine upstream of the "Y". So, that air HAS to come from somewhere. The amount of air moving is a function of demand by the engine and the supply capacity. If the demand exceeds the supply, the pressure in the tube is reduced. But, having two inlets to the "Y" should effectively add to the supply capability, regardless of "pressure". So, my take on it would be that there would be little to no "restriction" effect. However, any positive pressure provided by the tube going to the "ram" intake is going to be split, and any airflow gain may actually be canceled by turbulent interactions.

I honestly don't know what the effect will be. As I've said before, aerodynamics is a VERY complicated "science", and it's not really that well understood. Most of the "theory" is empirically derived. You would need a lab setup to test the possible gains of this configuration.

- Jack

[ticopowell]

Yeah i got a B in aero here at the academy so i have a very basic understanding of airflow, and on top of that we barely scratched the surface (of air?) of aerodynamics and airflow properties, but with this little knowledge i dont think the stock hole will add any resistance, I just think it will keep the air from the ram air intake to build any pressure, so it is just clean air coming into the engine versus pressurized air that would enter if it were a turbo or supercharger or something like that. but hey with a valve or a direct ram air intake it might build a whole .1 psi greater than ambient air pressure! :hehe: but hey, i feel good about getting the clean colder air coming in, now my question is what will happen if im driving behind one of you smokers with rear exit exhausts and i get all that in my engine? :smiley_roll1: haha jk, i dont think that would do anything :p

[907DAVE]

now my question is what will happen if im driving behind one of you smokers with rear exit exhausts and i get all that in my engine?


You might make some actual HP's............j/k:smiley_roll1:

[Longshot270]

So in the spirit of gaseous fluid dynamical science, to find whether the ram air setup works or not we will....flip a coin. :hehe:

I say if the buttometer shows improved readings for less than $50-$100 then it is good enough. Especially when many popular products expect you to pay hundreds for a few extra advertised ponies.

I might go back and test mine since I have gotten better at getting data and putting it together into a more sensible form.

Hey, if you see some little ricer with NOS, you can get up behind him and scoop it up. :nos:

[ticopowell]

Great idea! :smiley_roll1::hehe: but what if i get such a boost that i end up running him over?! :happy-dancing: haha

[Longshot270]

I was just thinking. :disbelief:
What if instead of a "Y" you put a 90˚? The engine will still be able to bring in air and if you did get going 200+ mph you would get a slight amount of boost.

If I were doing that project on a 5.4 I would cut the intake to allow the "Y" after the stock fender snorkel. That way the preferred source of airflow will be from the bumper instead of the fender. The fender would still be a source, just not as significant as the front. We also have to keep in mind that we can use a 6" inlet but the air is still having to squeeze through the rest of the intake, filter and throttle body. I remember that changes the properties of the fluid but I cant specifically remember how at the moment. :doh:
The gotts mod eliminates the largest source of airway restriction. Now you have to open up anything that has less than a 3 inch diameter...so I guess that would be the throttle body which I think is 75 mm to an 80mm. We're starting to get expensive now. :hehe:

But really this is all a mute point if you aren't either hauling buns down the highway or stuck in stop and go traffic all the time. :cheesy smile:

[88Racing]

I guess I would steer clear of using anything else besides the fender hole.
Reasoning is mostly to where I live and the weather and debri. I know k+n can handle moisture but I don't think it would be to friendly to the stock panel paper filter. Adding the Y like you guy are doing might be a perfect water in let during rain or snow.
If the tubing intake could be dropped low enough where gravity would help keep the moisture out then that would be a plus.
I know 4.6 has the cylinder shaped filter.
The fender hole is the perfect spot to get away from all this.
Just some thoughts.
Peace!:)

[Longshot270]

I guess I would steer clear of using anything else besides the fender hole.
Reasoning is mostly to where I live and the weather and debri. I know k+n can handle moisture but I don't think it would be to friendly to the stock panel paper filter. Adding the Y like you guy are doing might be a perfect water in let during rain or snow.
If the tubing intake could be dropped low enough where gravity would help keep the moisture out then that would be a plus.
I know 4.6 has the cylinder shaped filter.
The fender hole is the perfect spot to get away from all this.
Just some thoughts.
Peace!:)

I thought about the same stuff down here. Except I worry more about dust and dirt getting sucked in. My filter has to be cleaned every 6,000 miles as it it and the ram air would only increase the amount going in. But if you live in a cleaner area it would be good.

[88Racing]

I'm really surprised this hasn't made it to the resource library?

[Longshot270]

I'm really surprised this hasn't made it to the resource library?

Made a thread about it in the mods section but we were busy with CS/CTS stuff at the time so it got lost in the shuffle.

[ticopowell]

Made a thread about it in the mods section but we were busy with CS/CTS stuff at the time so it got lost in the shuffle.

Im sure it would make us all feel special! :smiley_roll1:

[88Racing]

It was there but only in the index.
I copied it over to there also.
Peace!:)

[eej711]

Has anyone figured out a way to have a two-way entry with the 4.6L in-front of the airbox? I recently tried to add a pipe into the box going behind the headlight, but did not like how close the filter was to the edge inside so i didnt think the filter would be able to breath properly. Anyone have ideas before the box?

[Longshot270]

You could try joining it to the airbox with a threaded adapter fitting going into the black plastic and connect your front pipe to that. There isn't really enough space to do it with a preformed coupler.