Frustrated in Texas!!

[Tuscany FTX]

Here is the deal. My truck is a "Turd", and I can't figure out why. I have an 06 F150 4x4 that is a conversion thru Ford by Tuscany. When I bought the truck, I was immediately not happy with the POWER. The only performance Mods on the truck at the time was 20" wheels/tires,SI/DO exhaust, and a leveling kit. My next door neighbor has same truck except 05 and stock wheels/tires. His truck will SPANK mine. For example 0-60 he is in the low 9's, I was low 13's, but he had CAI,Gryphon w/ Custom Tunes by PHP. Since then I have put a Banks CAI, and the Gryphon with Custom Tunes by PHP. When I received the Gryphon w/ "Canned Tunes" the truck definetly drove a bit better, but 0-60 was still in the High 11's. So, I had hopes of when I received the "Custom Tunes" that the performance would improve more. "NOT". I received the "Custom Tunes" and got an Custom 87 Performance and Custom 87 Tow. The truck runs GREAT on the freeway, very smooth, but still NO POWER. The best 0-60 I can muster w/ Custom 87 Tow is a 12.8, which is LOWER than the canned tune 0-60. I am at a loss! The truck sounds like it is going to take off, but it just doesnt. Any help or advise would greatly be appreciated. I also posted this on the F150 forum so if you see it twice it is me. Thanks again.

[88Racing]

What gears do you have?
What gears does your neighbor have?
What size tires on those 20's?
Just some more info needed.
Peace!:)

[88Racing]

One more question: What motor and do both trucks have the same one?????

[Tuscany FTX]

To my knowledge we both have 3:73 gears. We both have 5.4l engines. The only known difference is he has 17" stock wheels,tires, and I have 305/55/20's. I now have the Nitto Trail Grapplers, but before I was running Toyo Open Country A/T's. Thanks 88 for looking into my prob!

[Tuscany FTX]

88! One more thing. It is like NIght and Day difference. I wouldn't be concerned if it was just a little bit, but it is drastic enough to make you think something has got to be wrong with my truck. When I floor it (WOT) it builds RPM and sounds great, but it is like it doesn't engage. Not that the tranny is slipping or anything because all feels smooth, but it just doesn't go. His puts you in the seat and easily leaves me by 5-6 truck links.

[shotgun]

Boy - that sounds like the torque converter isn't locking up.

Are you monitoring it on the Gryphon?

EDIT:
From page 9 of the manual

COM GEAR
Visual gear indicator: Current transmission gear and torque converter lockup state

[Jackpine]

Actually, I suspect your wheel/tire combination. I think your tires are MUCH bigger than your neighbor's, which reduces your effective gear ratio by a bunch. This is going to make your truck slow off the mark, unless you re-gear to compensate.

If you tell me what size tires your neighbor has, I'll be able to tell you the difference in your effective gear ratios.

AND, I would not expect the TC to lock up at all in a WOT 0-60 run. With that load, the TC is going to stay unlocked to provide torque multiplication.

- Jack

[88Racing]

I'm with Jack on the wheel size.
The stock OEM on the 20's is 275/55r20.
This is the same size as the stock OEM 18 tire once squish is taken in and accounted for.
Peace!:)

[Jackpine]

IF your OEM tires were 275/55/20s, you've reduced your effective gear ratio to 3.58. You've lost a bunch of "mechanical advantage" and your truck is going to be slow off the mark. Now you can spend more money and re-gear if you'd like your acceleration back.

- Jack

[shotgun]

Ooops - I failed to pay attention to the WOT part.

Sorry. :sigh:

[Jackpine]

Hey! Welcome to the "stupid post club"! I'm the charter member and we're always happy to have new members join us. :giggle:

- Jack

[shotgun]

Hey! Welcome to the "stupid post club"! I'm the charter member and we're always happy to have new members join us. :giggle:

- Jack

I nominate myself for president-elect. Do I hear a second?

My only hope to make up for that one is for 15 people to post questions about GR or TS in the next 10 minutes...(assuming a 15 atta boys for 1 aw $h!t ratio).

:hehe:

[Jackpine]

It's more like 20:1, at least that's how I remember it. I've got such an "atta-boy" deficit right now that there's no hope for me.

- Jack

[Tuscany FTX]

Actually, I suspect your wheel/tire combination. I think your tires are MUCH bigger than your neighbor's, which reduces your effective gear ratio by a bunch. This is going to make your truck slow off the mark, unless you re-gear to compensate.

If you tell me what size tires your neighbor has, I'll be able to tell you the difference in your effective gear ratios.

AND, I would not expect the TC to lock up at all in a WOT 0-60 run. With that load, the TC is going to stay unlocked to provide torque multiplication.

- Jack

My neighbor is running the stock(OEM) wheels/tires. They are 275/65/18, which is also what my stock wheels/tires were.

[Jackpine]

My neighbor is running the stock(OEM) wheels/tires. They are 275/65/18, which is also what my stock wheels/tires were.

Uh - you said earlier that he had 17" wheels, not 18's. Can you tell me which it really is? And, is his truck the same model? Because if his is lighter than yours, it's going to be faster too.

I'm going to add that your larger tires DO have more "mass", which means there IS more power needed just to get them rotating (along with the increase in weight they add to your truck, the increased "rolling resistance" due to the larger footprint and the increase in wind resistance you'll see at highway speed due to the larger frontal area).

- Jack

[88Racing]

You don't need to sell the whole wheel package:
http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/classified-ads/3853-wheel-tire-package.html

Just swap out the tires to 275/55r20's.
Not unless you still have your stock 18's rims+tires?

[Tuscany FTX]

Uh - you said earlier that he had 17" wheels, not 18's. Can you tell me which it really is? And, is his truck the same model? Because if his is lighter than yours, it's going to be faster too.

I'm going to add that your larger tires DO have more "mass", which means there IS more power needed just to get them rotating (along with the increase in weight they add to your truck, the increased "rolling resistance" due to the larger footprint and the increase in wind resistance you'll see at highway speed due to the larger frontal area).

- Jack

Yes! I did say 17's. Sorry, after I talked to him I was corrected. It is the same truck. Jack, in your opinion, why would the canned tune 0-60 be quicker than my Custom Tune, even if we are dealing with a tire size and gears issue. Seems to me, that I should have picked up some and not lost power from the Custom Tune. My neighbor also corrected me on his 0-60 time. He said in 87 Custom Tow he is at a 7.37s 0-60. Thanks, for all the input!

[Tuscany FTX]

You don't need to sell the whole wheel package:
http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/classified-ads/3853-wheel-tire-package.html

Just swap out the tires to 275/55r20's.
Not unless you still have your stock 18's rims+tires?

HA!HA! I am still running 305/55/20's. I just bought new wheels and tires.
Thanks,

[Jackpine]

OK, your OEM tires and gears were the same as mine. With your NEW tires and rims, your effective GR is 3.59, so you've lost a bit there. According to the Gear Ratio calculator in Pegasus, you would need 3.86 gears to get back to a "stock" performance level and, something like 4.10 would probably be better, to counter the additional rotating mass and rolling resistance.

Now, why your custom tune should be less "peppy" than the canned one is a big puzzle. It's possible that Bill tuned it that way for a reason. He can probably adjust for more power though if you're willing to take the hit on economy. This is something you'll have to work out with him. About the only thing you could try would be to raise your max rpm to maybe 5600 (if it's not already there) and your 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts to about 5200. I'd leave the 3-4 upshift alone and I would NOT go any higher than those numbers.

Remember, this is a truck you're driving, not a dragster. It's really not designed for that kind of abuse.

- Jack

[cody994x4]

why are yall racing f150 4x4's? take him off-roading and see who 'wins' lol

the difference has got to be:
1.)aftermarket rim/tire weight....you are heavier than ur neighboor
2.) leveling kit...you are most likely less aerodynamic...his nose sits lower, you have more 'drag' on your setup
3.)same trannys? same shift points? same final drive ratio?

if u're trying to make ur 4x4 fast....start by re-gearing, then exhaust, then a turbo!

g/l

[Tuscany FTX]

Thanks for all the responses!

[88Racing]

Another thing.
Check your parking brake to make sure that ain't hanging up and causing extra friction/drag.

[Power Hungry]

I suspect that part of the performance loss is the fact that we have to put the camshaft timing profile back to stock for CAIs so they don't drone like hell.

As for the tires, we're looking at a difference of 22-24 rev/mile... not a horrible change. At least not like switching to 35's or something like that. The fact that his performance is *THAT* off leads me to thing there may be something else going on with the vehicle outside of what tuning will be able to improve. If he's getting only in the 12's for 0-60, something simply isn't right. Even a bone stock struck should be getting in the 8-9 second range.

Lee,

One thing I'm curious about... do you still have the stock airbox? If so, it would be interesting to see if it makes any difference in the way the truck performs. If not... then you don't.

I can restore the camshaft profile to see if that helps pick up the power that you lost but it may cause the airbox to drone. Let me know if that' something you'd like to try.

Take care.

[Tuscany FTX]

I suspect that part of the performance loss is the fact that we have to put the camshaft timing profile back to stock for CAIs so they don't drone like hell.

As for the tires, we're looking at a difference of 22-24 rev/mile... not a horrible change. At least not like switching to 35's or something like that. The fact that his performance is *THAT* off leads me to thing there may be something else going on with the vehicle outside of what tuning will be able to improve. If he's getting only in the 12's for 0-60, something simply isn't right. Even a bone stock struck should be getting in the 8-9 second range.

Lee,

One thing I'm curious about... do you still have the stock airbox? If so, it would be interesting to see if it makes any difference in the way the truck performs. If not... then you don't.




I can restore the camshaft profile to see if that helps pick up the power that you lost but it may cause the airbox to drone. Let me know if that' something you'd like to try.

Take care.

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the help. I do still have the stock intake. I will put it back on and see. I am with you and my neighbor, it just feels like somethingelse is going on. I bought the truck Used w/ only 18,000 miles. I went from an F350, which I had driven for the last 8 years and has always had plenty of power. So when I drove the F150, I just thought that was how they were, until I drove my neighbors truck. It was literally night/day. But still I thought because he had the Gryphon,CAI,Custom Tunes, etc. that that may be the difference. Now, that I have also added all the same Mods, it still the same. Don't get me wrong, your Custom tune on the freeway is very nice,smooth! Also seems to be better fuel mileage which I needed. The only part is the Power!! I'll let you know once Itry the stock intake. May be a couple of days, before I can do it. Thanks

[Tuscany FTX]

I suspect that part of the performance loss is the fact that we have to put the camshaft timing profile back to stock for CAIs so they don't drone like hell.

As for the tires, we're looking at a difference of 22-24 rev/mile... not a horrible change. At least not like switching to 35's or something like that. The fact that his performance is *THAT* off leads me to thing there may be something else going on with the vehicle outside of what tuning will be able to improve. If he's getting only in the 12's for 0-60, something simply isn't right. Even a bone stock struck should be getting in the 8-9 second range.

Lee,

One thing I'm curious about... do you still have the stock airbox? If so, it would be interesting to see if it makes any difference in the way the truck performs. If not... then you don't.

I can restore the camshaft profile to see if that helps pick up the power that you lost but it may cause the airbox to drone. Let me know if that' something you'd like to try.

Take care.

Hi Bill,
I did what you suggested and put the stock intake box back on the truck. I like how the truck feels and runs with it. I will NOT be putting the Banks Ram Air back on it. Even though the truck seems to run better with the stock box, it was even slower with the 0-60 time. I got a 13.6s with the stock box and 12.8s with the Banks CAI. So for now I will not be running a CAI, unless you have one you recommend!! Thanks,

[88Racing]

With the stock airbox now Bill will have to recalibrate your timing+AFR curves.

Peace!:)

[Jackpine]

You MAY want to look at the "Gotts" style mod for an intake. Bill does not have to change anything for this mod once he recalibrates your tunes for the "stock box". Everyone who's tried it seems to think it improves the way the engine performs, without any of the adverse effects of a commercial CAI. Here's a link to how I did mine: http://www.f150online.com/forums/articles-how-tos/368044-do-yourself-intake-modification-2004-2008-a.html

- Jack