A few questions

[F-127]

Hey, I've been looking at the Minotaur custom tuning software. My truck is a '95 F-250 with 7.3l PSD. Pretty mild, downpipe, exhaust, and borrowing my brothers Edge Evolution. I'm looking for a tuner, and I REALLY like the idea of doing the tunes myself instead of shipping the tuner to get reprogrammed. Let's just say I was to put in Stage I injectors and guages, do you think I could reprogram the tuner myself without too much experience with the program? Another thing is we have 4 PSD's between myself, my dad, and my brother. A '95, '00, '02, and another '02. So there's some real potential that I'd get a lot of use from having the tuning software. Any package deals for the software package and 4 or five chips? Is the RDT file for Powerstrokes cover from '94-'03 or is there two separate files for '94-'97 and '99-'03? Thanks a lot! Thomas H.

[secondarychaos]

Well, I'm pretty sure that the other three trucks will require different RDT files, as they come with split shot injectors instead of singles.
You can buy blank chips for $200, or $175 for 5+
If you're automotively inclined, you should be able to tune for stage 1's with the manual, some reading and perhaps bill's help.
I may not be 100% correct, but I sure think I am. :D

[cleatus12r]

Here are a few things to look into. I don't know where you're from, but as far as federal emissions trucks go, if your truck is an automatic (and has a DPC-202 PCM), have Bill get you the TDE1 file. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY on the actual code for your truck. You'll end up with the same dismal transmission operation that you have now. Certain companies will ask you for your actual PCM code and you will regret it. Others automatically give you the better stuff based soley off of the year, CA or federal emissions, and transmission type.

Now that I'm done ranting there, you mentioned a few Super Duty trucks in there as well. Talk to Bill and he'll probably have some great advice on which files to use for those trucks.

Manual-equipped trucks aren't nearly as picky with their PCM code cross-breeding.

As far as definitions go, there are a TON!! However, there are only about 8-10 that are ever needed for the 95-03 7.3s. Usually people doing the tuning have a favorite base file for each manual/automatic for 95-97, Early 99, 99.5-01, and 02-03.....unless there are some Califor nazi uh specific calibrations you need.

[F-127]

I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and also somewhat good working with computer programs. I was thinking I could tune for stage I injectors myself... just feels better hearing it from someone else. I've only looked at the PCM code on my '95. All trucks are manual except one '02. I'm almost sure that none of the trucks are CA models. Thanks for the help, I'll have to give a call to Bill sometime although it might be a while being I just ordered gauges for my pickup this morning. Summit racing had a discount that needed to get used up. Boost and pyro headed my way.:)

[kokopellimotorsports]

Here are a few things to look into. I don't know where you're from, but as far as federal emissions trucks go, if your truck is an automatic (and has a DPC-202 PCM), have Bill get you the TDE1 file. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY on the actual code for your truck. You'll end up with the same dismal transmission operation that you have now. Certain companies will ask you for your actual PCM code and you will regret it. Others automatically give you the better stuff based soley off of the year, CA or federal emissions, and transmission type.

Now that I'm done ranting there, you mentioned a few Super Duty trucks in there as well. Talk to Bill and he'll probably have some great advice on which files to use for those trucks.

Manual-equipped trucks aren't nearly as picky with their PCM code cross-breeding.

As far as definitions go, there are a TON!! However, there are only about 8-10 that are ever needed for the 95-03 7.3s. Usually people doing the tuning have a favorite base file for each manual/automatic for 95-97, Early 99, 99.5-01, and 02-03.....unless there are some Califor nazi uh specific calibrations you need.

Cody pretty much covered it.

I like to see the gauges come first :2thumbs:. I have allot of customers that want the power but pay no attention to being able to monitor what the engine is doing.

[cleatus12r]

He'll probably want to hook you up with the MLE1 files and RDT for yours. I'm willing to bet it's a SOD2 or thereabouts PCM presently. (DPC-203)

The '00 will probably get a DAC3. (421)

As for the '02 trucks, the auto will be VDH5 and the manual will likely be GDU3...but I'm not positive on that one.

[cleatus12r]

. I have allot of customers that want the power but pay no attention to being able to monitor what the engine is doing.

On that note, I find it incredible that 90% of the people who tow heavily/race and are totally oblivious to EGT (have no gauges) seldom have problems while the people with correct instrumentation who overdo the EGTs one time do have problems.

[kokopellimotorsports]

On that note, I find it incredible that 90% of the people who tow heavily/race and are totally oblivious to EGT (have no gauges) seldom have problems while the people with correct instrumentation who overdo the EGTs one time do have problems.

That is weird how that works.:notallthere:

[cleatus12r]

Ignorance is bliss...

[secondarychaos]

That is weird how that works.:notallthere:

Indeed it is...
which is why I plan to WAY overdo all my air mods :D

[kokopellimotorsports]

Indeed it is...
which is why I plan to WAY overdo all my air mods :D

Good. Let me know if I can help you out with that.:yesnod:

Ty

[Power Hungry]

Ideal strategies...

95 Manual - MLE1 - VDAB0_02
00 Manual - DAC3 - VOAA7P6
02 Manual - AEB2 - TOAA4Z2 (DPC-461, 49 State) or ZRE2 - TOAA4M2 (DPC-491, CALI.)

02 Auto - VDH2 - TNAA4S2 (DPC-462, 49 State) or QLJ2 - TNAA4N2 (DPC-492, CALI.)

The 02 Automatic will get the hybrid VDH2 calibration with the PMT1 shifting strategy. This has the absolute BEST shifting strategy for this year truck.

When ordering the software for your truck, we can provide a custom tuned file you can use as a "base" file and then you can tweak from there. This will help save you a little time and serves as a guideline for the changes we make to the calibrations in order to handle certain modifications.

If you have any questions, just holler!

Take care.

[cleatus12r]

Bill,

What can you tell me about the manual strategies as far as "ideal" differences between say, MLE0/MLE1, and DAC2/3, etc. I can't say that I can feel any perceivable difference for either PCM family. However, ZHL1 seems to work really well over DAC3 with similar parameter changes. Why would that be? Comparing the scalars, tables, and functions of each stock file really doesn't shed any light on anything. I would think that a manual transmission tune wouldn't have the "cult" following like the automatic base files do.

[Power Hungry]

ZHL1 is VKAE4P8 which is much more closely related to DAC1 which is VKAE1P2 or DAC2 which is VKAE3P4.

DAC3 is VOAA7P6 which is a later strategy and is SIGNIFICANTLY different in both layout as well as functional values than the earlier VKAE based files.

This is similar to the PMTx phenomena. Nobody is really sure why, but PMT1 is a really solid calibration and PMT2 and PMT3 suck eggs. They are all VRAA related strategies, but the later PMT files (including CXK0, which is basically "PMT4") just don't muster up to the performance of PMT1. The calibration values aren't all that different so I'm a little confused why the big difference in the way the trucks run and shift. :confused:

Anyway, with so few M/T trucks (at least compared to A/T ones), there hasn't been enough opportunity to swap cals and see which ones kick butt and which ones don't. Maybe you'll have a bit more opportunity to work with those and come up with the PMT1 equivalent for the manuals. It already sounds like you have a good head start. :D

As for MLE0/MLE1, there are about 12 changes between the files and they're not anything I recognize or have mapped in the RDT files. Other than that, they're identical.

[cleatus12r]

Thanks for the input, Bill.

I haven't dyno'd (or more specifically, had my friend dyno) the ZHL1 vs. the DAC3 even though it's at his disposal whenever he wants it. However, my friend has been driving with assorted tunes from each family..two were duplicates of eachother, one of each. He won't leave the ZHL1 tunes. He doesn't like the way the DAC3 "feels"....even though EVERY scalar, table, and function are exactly the same in each tune. So I gave up on DAC3.

Maybe you'll have a bit more opportunity to work with those and come up with the PMT1 equivalent for the manuals. It already sounds like you have a good head start.

I think I found my huckleberry; it's the ZHL1. However, with all of the.......uh......not so good base files I got from the "other" company, it might just be a fluke.

[cleatus12r]

Bill, here's a screenshot of what we discussed the other day. Just in case I read something wrong.....:help:

[secondarychaos]

Good. Let me know if I can help you out with that.:yesnod:

Ty
Do you sell turbos? :evillol:
I'm looking for a GT4202, a S472, or an HX55 with the 72mm wheel.. :omg:
I'm going to have to P&P my heads, make ceramic coated tubular headers, ceramic coated uppipes, and adjust the tuning...
all just to keep it streetable... LOL

[F-127]

Great posts:thumbsup:...I'm really trying to soak up as much as I can. I definitely find this more interesting than typing up papers for classes. Hopefully I can convince my brother and dad to split up some of the costs as they'd be benefiting too. That would get Minotaur in my hands sooner.

[kokopellimotorsports]

Do you sell turbos? :evillol:
I'm looking for a GT4202, a S472, or an HX55 with the 72mm wheel.. :omg:
I'm going to have to P&P my heads, make ceramic coated tubular headers, ceramic coated uppipes, and adjust the tuning...
all just to keep it streetable... LOL

Yes I do sell turbo's. I have access to just about any turbo you want. Email me what specs that you are looking for and I will let you know what I can do for you. Ty@kokopellimotorsports.com. I get turbo's from High Tech Turbo, Industrial Injection, Garret, Turbonetics, Borg Warner, and many more that I cannot think of right now. You can also call me 801-557-8779.

Thanks

Ty:howdy:

[secondarychaos]

ok Ty.
I'll let you know when I get closer to knowing the exact one I want :D

[kokopellimotorsports]

ok Ty.
I'll let you know when I get closer to knowing the exact one I want :D

Okay. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Thanks

Ty

[bbbxcursion]

Here's what I found PMT1 vs PMT3 if this helps at all??

[Power Hungry]

I didn't mean to make it sound like PMT1 and PMT2/3 weren't different... they are! But you wouldn't think that with the relatively few changes between them they would shift THAT badly. Whoever at Ford that did the PMT2/3 strategies clearly didn't have their thinking cap on that day. :yikes2:

Take care.

[bbbxcursion]

It's kinda funny if you think about it. I wonder what they were thinking?

[Power Hungry]

I think the thing that bothers me is that PMT1 was only out a few weeks before PMT2 became the current release. I mean really, how many PMT1 labeled PCMs has anyone actually seen? Not many over here, that's for sure.

So someone said "PMT1 is okay, but this PMT2 runs fantastic!" and then ran with it for almost 2 years. PMT2 and PMT3 are virtually identical. Someone needs to find that engineer and :nutkick: hard!

[bbbxcursion]

I would really like to meet the engineer and ask him why.....I feel stupid just trying to understand the changes? It's backwords, plain and simple :explosion:

[cleatus12r]

I think the thing that bothers me is that PMT1 was only out a few weeks before PMT2 became the current release. I mean really, how many PMT1 labeled PCMs has anyone actually seen?


I have one....I lucked out on ebay and got it for $75. I have .......other......plans for it :evillol: I have to take the board out, glue the J3 traces down, and retin the contacts because the previous owner decided to rub a little too much when taking the epoxy off of the terminals. And for whatever reason, there was some arcing going on between two of the terminals when they crossed at some point :omg:. It still works though and chips work fine in it.


As far as the PMT1 and PMT2 (which my truck is originally) differences go, my wife (who is a GREAT test subject for my work because she's brutally honest) says that stock for stock (nothing programmed or in the J3 port), the PMT1 feels stronger than the PMT2....perceivably different. Why? Who knows? I don't feel a difference but she knows when I've changed the PCM out. Don't get me wrong, stock for stock, the truck is still a gutless turd and programming always helps. However, she finds the PMT1 more tolerable if she has to drive without tuning.

The BIGGEST thing I notice is the forced 4-3 shift and TCC strategy. Neither my wife or I ever floorboard the truck so I don't care about WOT lockup...but the 4-3 shift (and subsequent TCC unlock/lock strategy) seals the deal for me...the more responsive APP does it for her.

[Power Hungry]

I agree with both you and the wife. The PMT1 always felt stronger to me, even if only a a little bit. Of course, that may be entire because of the transmission strategy better handling the power from the engine and putting it to the ground.

The reason we went to PMT1 was specifically because of the shift strategies, especially the 4-3 and T/C shifts. This is also the reason we created the VDH/PMT, MNM/PMT, and XLE/PMT hybrid files. They just shift so much better than the original strategies.

In the end, it's whatever makes you happy. :)

[cleatus12r]

Don't get me started on those lovely strategies that won't even lock the torque converter in 2nd or 3rd gear no matter the load then immediately lock it when the 3-4 shift occurs. Those will make you wonder what the :censored3: those programmers were smoking :1moon: when they came up with that :censored3:.

[Big Bore]

I am having major problems with the PMT1 strategy here in the CO mountains. Downshifting requires way too much pedal at way too low of speeds, causing lag, smoke, and then sudden acceleration when it does downshift. I would go so far as to say I hate it. It does not keep the truck in the powerband, instead it is constantly lugging around. So does the Minotaur software allow shift points to be adjusted using RPM instead of road speed?

[cleatus12r]

No. The functions are set up for APP vs. road speed.

But it's nothing more than a little math to figure out road speed vs. RPM...with a little bit of road testing in between. Also, it's not difficult at all to keep the TC from locking in 2nd or 3rd gear.

Big Bore, you've got a chip burner, right? If so, I can send you an MRT2 file...it's a stock power level, but the shifting/TC strategy absolutely sucks! :hehe: It's NOTHING like PMT1 and WILL NOT lock the TC in 2nd or 3rd so it might be just what you're looking for. I can email it to you and you can burn it right to your chip.

Different strokes for different folks!

PM me your email address if you're interested.

[Big Bore]

No. The functions are set up for APP vs. road speed.

But it's nothing more than a little math to figure out road speed vs. RPM...with a little bit of road testing in between. Also, it's not difficult at all to keep the TC from locking in 2nd or 3rd gear.

Big Bore, you've got a chip burner, right? If so, I can send you an MRT2 file...it's a stock power level, but the shifting/TC strategy absolutely sucks! :hehe: It's NOTHING like PMT1 and WILL NOT lock the TC in 2nd or 3rd so it might be just what you're looking for. I can email it to you and you can burn it right to your chip.

Different strokes for different folks!

PM me your email address if you're interested.

Negative, no burner. I'm seriously considering the Minotaur software.

I cant imagine something that sucks worse than PMT1 right now. However, having the TC locked in 2nd and 3rd really sucks driving in hilly country where speeds vary constantly. I suppose if the actual shift points are moved up then perhaps it wont be as bad, but I really think delaying the TC lockup till 3rd is the answer. It is possible cutting the low end fuel may solve some of my problems also. I am working with the original tuner to come up with something that will work, but I have little faith in a satisfactory solution at this point.

Not being able to set shift points by RPM is a little disappointing to me, as that seems more relevant than road speed.

[cleatus12r]

Negative, no burner. I'm seriously considering the Minotaur software.

I cant imagine something that sucks worse than PMT1 right now. Actually, it's better for YOU in the fact that the TC doesn't lock at all in 2nd......but then again, it doesn't lock in 3rd either.However, having the TC locked in 2nd and 3rd really sucks driving in hilly country where speeds vary constantly. I can appreciate that, as I share your pain...in most situations. It sure helps with transmission fluid temperature having it locked though.I suppose if the actual shift points are moved up then perhaps it wont be as bad, but I really think delaying the TC lockup till 3rd is the answer. That would definitely make your life a lot better!!It is possible cutting the low end fuel may solve some of my problems also. I am working with the original tuner to come up with something that will work, but I have little faith in a satisfactory solution at this point.

Not being able to set shift points by RPM is a little disappointing to me, as that seems more relevant than road speed. The problem with that is the RPM varies significantly because of the torque converter slippage itself. 35 MPH with no load might equal 2000 RPM and on the other hand loaded can be 3000 RPM. If your TC was commanded to lock at 2700 RPM, it would lock at 2700 RPM just because you were pulling a load....same road speed. I guess to me, APP makes more sense than RPM. APP is a much better indicator of load than RPM vs. speed.
See comments in red.

[Big Bore]

Trans temp is not an issue, with the giant 5 gallon pan, or whatever it is, and a 6.0 cooler, I've had it up to operating temp once that I can think of.

[cleatus12r]

Big Bore,

I'll post up a screenshot of what the functions look like for shift speed and TC lock/unlock when I get home tonight (probably about 9 PM MST) so you can see what we're working with.

Bill's software will probably have an A/D scale where the TP voltage scale is on Sniper's definition file. I will know for sure here one of these days.....(patiently waiting on RDTs :cry:)

[cleatus12r]

Big Bore,

Here is a comparison of a stock PMT1 program and my Heavy Towing program that I use while hauling a few tons of hay. The windows in the first column are 1-2 shift speed, 2-3 shift speed, and 3-4 shift speed. The second column is 2nd gear TC lockup, 2nd gear TC unlock, and 3rd gear TC lockup.

The first column in each window is factory TP voltage, the second is tow program TP voltage. The third column is factory speed while the fourth column is tow program speed.

Tell me what my 2nd gear lockup does.....;) I like it that way!

You'll probably have to save it and blow it up since it's so small.

[Big Bore]

Cant view either item cleatus.

[Power Hungry]

Bill's software will probably have an A/D scale where the TP voltage scale is on Sniper's definition file. I will know for sure here one of these days.....(patiently waiting on RDTs :cry:)

Cody,

My fault on that. For some reason I thought I'd sent you some RDTs and Corey's over here telling me that I didn't. :( :whistle1:

Will have them in e-mail shortly.

[cleatus12r]

Big Bore,

There should be a picture there now!

[Big Bore]

Big Bore,

There should be a picture there now!

Hey thanks cleatus, sorry took me so long to get back.

[Big Bore]

Tell me what my 2nd gear lockup does.....;) I like it that way!
.

Locks at 25mph, unlocks at 21mph?

[cleatus12r]

That's part of it.

The way I have it set up, the TC will lock at 25-27 MPH under ANY load. It will also unlock earlier than it would unlock with factory programming. I did this because I drive on dirt roads a lot that are littered with hills. So putting the transmission in manual 2nd will allow me a TC-locked good ol' time without any heating issues. As long as I maintain 22-23 MPH, I have a locked TC. If I encounter any hills that cause me to slow down, then the TC will unlock and not cause me to bog down.

Of course, if I accelerate slowly, it also causes me to have a locked TC at all times above 22 or so MPH. My transmission temps are never an issue....even with the stock cooler setup.