Hello from South Dakota

[88Racing]

My eyes were opened this past week while researching tuners. Started looking @ sct livewires then on f150 online heard about php! Looks like a good product but one ? How many tunes will it hold? Sct lw has 3canned+3custums what does php have? Lived my life around carbs and distributers this pcm tech stuff is rather untouched in my experiance.

[SinCityFX4]

Welcome...:2thumbs:

[88Racing]

So the gryphon only has 3 cannedtunes in it upon arrival? So if custum ones are added they take the place of the canned ones? Just trying to compare both tuners.

[Jackpine]

So the gryphon only has 3 cannedtunes in it upon arrival? So if custum ones are added they take the place of the canned ones? Just trying to compare both tuners.

Welcome 88Racing. :howdy: You've got it right. If you need more than three "specialized" tunes, you'd probably be happier with a different product. But then, you'd be missing out on the chance to work with Corey and Bill, who are two of the nicest, most reputable people you're ever going to do business with!

In all honesty though, three custom tunes is more than enough for me. I don't even need three. I have one that I use for towing and one more that I use when I'm not towing. The third tune is the original "canned" tune, and I never use it. (I only have to pay for the tunes I get, so I see it as a way to save money).

- Jack

[88Racing]

Jack,
Thanx for the info!
I have been looking @ tuners for the last 2 months and have run in to a lot of your posts. Both here and f150 so I respect your input! Decided to join this forum and start asking my own ?'s instead of being a lurker. So what kind of canned tunes does the gryphon come with? I was running a cai but weather got cold, mph went down, and cel came on! Took it to the dealer and they found 2 ironious coded and rebooted the pcu with new calibrations. Knowbody told me what the codes were. Now I'm still running stock air intake. A mechanic friend told me to leave the cai off until I found a custom tuner package. The other ? is that what are the canned tunes based on? Octane? Towing? Economy? My biker buddies from around the usa all tell me that SD has krappy gas. I usually run 87.

-Lars

[Grabber523]

Welcome! What part of SD? I'm originally from the Sioux Falls area and I think the gas down there is great compared to the P!$$ they sell up here!

[Jackpine]

Wow, Lars! Let's see if I can answer your questions:

First, the CAI was probably making your truck run lean. Most of the aftermarket ones "fool" the MAF sensor into thinking your truck is sucking in less air than it really is, so the PCM doesn't increase the amount of fuel to balance everything properly. Custom tunes CAN fix that and you'll be able to use your CAI again.

The Gryphon's 3 canned tunes are the same as the ones you find on the Edge, which is not surprising, since the Gryphon is a "rebranded" Edge that can be custom tuned. The tunes are:
0. Your truck's "stock" tune
1. 87 octane transmission only
2. 87 octane tow
3. 91+ octane performance

I don't even know why there is a Level 1 tune. It "firms up" your shifts, and that's about all. It DOES give you the ability to adjust for different tire sizes, gears, etc. too. But, Level 2 and Level 3 give you these features too. The fueling, spark setting, shift points, etc., in Level 1 are what your stock truck always had.

Level 2 is a "good" tune. It's really designed to pull heavy (2500#+) trailers, but most people find it gives them a much better feeling of "power" and it improves their gas mileage too. It's probably optimized for trailers in the 5-6000# range, but many people use it for daily driving too.

Lots of people like to use 91+ octane gas, and the Level 3 tune is written to improve the power band through the envelope while taking advantage of the anti-knock properties of high-test gas. It has an advanced spark, in addition to different fueling strategies.

The Level 0 tune is what you put back on to your truck anytime you take it to the dealer. You do not want him to reflash your PCM (which they have been known to do) if there is anything other than a stock tune on it.

Corey wrote an excellent explanation of the difference between "canned" and "custom" (and "stock") tunes here: http://dygytalworld.ehost-services139.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288 It will probably help you understand better than anything I can say.

In your case, since you live in SD, your average temperature is much less than mine in AZ. That could require a slightly different tune. You may be at a different altitude - same story. I pull a relatively light 3600# trailer, which needs a different tune than a guy pulling a 4-horse trailer full of hay burners.

I personally think 87 octane gas is the best choice, regardless of tune. I say that because unless you can raise the compression, you can't really take advantage of the potential of 91+ octane stuff. You'll get some of it through the advanced spark, but you're still letting quite a bit just flow out of the tailpipe. I don't know why your friends would say SD gas is crappy, maybe it is, but I don't see any reason for it.

Hope this was helpful!

- Jack

[88Racing]

What I figued out about the gas is this;
1/ 75 mph speed limit
everyone likes to run it a little bit faster.[80+]
2/ Most of them like to get by as cheap as possible. So they put in 89 oct which is e10.
3/ Watch out for 92 oct sometimes that is also a e10 blend.

Do not give me a bad time about ethanol its a great new income for farmers and the other agri related businesses. But the auto makers/and other producers should have researched it more extensively before the law makers allowed it on the market.
I know that Brazil has been running it for years before us. Look at the vehicles they run it in. PRE EFI!!! CARBURATED
Well theres my speech on ethanol.

-Lars

[Jackpine]

Interesting that your 89 octane is E10, our 87 is E10! In fact, all our gas is E10. As Bill said in one of his recent posts, about all ethanol is good for is to make your engine run badly.

And, I'm not against farmers either - I think they deserve our utmost support. I AM unhappy with "Big Ag" - ADM, Cargill, and the like, who control agriculture from the cradle to the grave. Who through their lobbying efforts in Congress have made it next to impossible for an "organic", non-industrial farm to ever get a foothold, in spite of the fact that that kind of farming COULD be just as productive and would produce a smaller carbon/pesticide/pollutant footprint on the planet.

I posted a huge rant on this over on the f150forums quite a few months ago. I suppose I should not repeat it here.

Possibly though, the differences in fuel blends used in different States could account for the differences I see in MPG figures reported by our f150 owners?

- Jack

[88Racing]

Jack,
My specs for the truck are this:
3.73 gears
4x4
5.4 3v with cat back exhaust/tru-flow xdi cai
Lariat
2006 with 22k
Weekend trip truck

For instance;
Around Sioux Falls 11.5-13 mpg
Mixture of driving on 87oct straight.
From 25-75 mph
10.5-12 89oct e10 blend

Went on a trip this last summer:
Started in sf with full tank of 87oct
Averaged 13-15 mpg to Tomah WI
Filled up there, with their 88oct
(did not see blend sticker)
Averaged 14-18 mpg to Springfield IL
Filled with 87oct
Averaged 16-20 mpg to Ohio

The whole point is the further east I went the better the mpg until after Ohio.
Coming back the same data was collected in reverse.

True I was not probably hammering down on it like I was at home. Kept it around the same speed 65-75mph.

So right there adds a little to your conclusion also Jack that states probably do blend gas differently.

Now f150 owners around here with 3.50 gears get 1-2 mpg better in town and 17-21 mpg on highway. The down side of this gear when they tow is they are back down their with the 3.73 mpg. Now I tow with mine and I have consistently the same mpg as long as it's not a high profile type trailer.

-Lars

[Jackpine]

Your truck is very similar to mine Lars. Possibly you have different tires, mine are 275/65R18s, and, I have the bed cap that adds to wind resistance and 200+ pounds of weight.

I get in the mid 15s in highway mpgs, closer to 14 in Tucson, which doesn't have a lot of stop lights where I'm driving it. My trailer is a low profile type for towing (check my galleries), but it does weigh 3600# and it brings my mpgs down to the neighborhood of 12.5 when I pull it at 65mph. However, I have gotten as high as the mid 14s pulling it, again, in different states, at higher altitudes where the gas is 86 or 85 octane. And, like you I didn't notice if it was E10 or not. I DO know, though, the gas I use here IS E10.

This has been a good discussion. I think you've brought up points that add to our understanding of why fuel economy seems to vary so much among our members.

- Jack

[88Racing]

Jack,
Forgot to add in the specs. I run the Ford 20" rim with the Pirelli scorpion atr. Not around the truck right now to remember the exact tire size. The other killer to mpg's in the winter is ____? If you guessed remote start and or idling your correct!(Kind of gets cold up here) Also gas companies blend the mixture differently between summer and winter. Do not know why or how but that is what the people at the tank farms tell me.

-Lars

[Jackpine]

And, the truck WILL be getting a richer fuel mixture when the engine is cold, as well as probably idling faster. I think the winter blend fuel is formulated to either ignite more easily or, to burn more "cleanly", or both, compared to summer grade fuel.

- Jack

[88Racing]

Jack,
In your opinion is the gryphon the best for the price or the awesome support php has?
I had been leaning towards the troyer sct lw@$650 but with the posts, feed back, and brain power that php has in this forum, I think the pendulem has swung towards the gryphon! Another question for you is this: are the canned tunes the same as the edge or better? Just wanted to know what I am getting into.

Thanks
Lars

[Jackpine]

Oh Boy! Lars, I'm prejudiced!

The easy question first: The canned Gryphon tunes are the same tunes that you find on the Edge. They were developed with a great deal of help from Bill Cohron when he worked for Edge and are "generic" tunes that will improve the performance of any f150, but, are not customized to specific models, driving styles, locations or usage patterns. I'm not really sure what percentage of the tunes is due to Bill's input, but, from his post regarding tuning the 2009 f150, I suspect he did most of the work on them.

Now, the second one. Here, I can only give you "opinions". The Livewire gives you gauges too, and, they can be set to simulate an analog gauge if that blows air up your skirt. I think you can monitor up to six things at a time vs the four that the Gryphon offers. I believe you can switch things that are monitored easily, at the touch of a button with the Livewire. With the current Gryphon, you'd better pull off the road if you want to change the display, but, Bill is thinking about some enhancements that will allow rapid switching between two sets of four PIDs.

If the Livewire tuned by Troyer costs $650, then the Gryphon custom tuned with three tunes is $489. The savings will buy a lot of scotch (or tequila)! :hehe:

Mike Troyer has an incredible reputation in the tuning world, but then so does Justin Starkey at VMP and, of course, our Bill Cohron at PHP.

If you have spent as much time as I have on the "Chips, Tuners and Programming" forum in f150online as I have, you will know (and appreciate) how many times Bill has come to the rescue of someone needing information on custom tuning - and those people don't always have Edges/Gryphons either. Without casting aspersions, note the number of helpful posts by Mike and Justin.

I'm quite confident that there is not a significant difference in the quality of the tunes delivered by these three experts. Each approaches the task in a different manner, so there will be some, but I doubt it's anything you can "feel".

Bottom line: If I'm going to put something in my truck that is going to effect how it runs and that has the potential of disabling it, I want to go with someone who I feel has MY interests at heart. Someone who maybe I could call at O-dark-thirty on the weekend who would get back to me quickly with help. I think Bill and Corey are that team, and that's why I call myself a "PHP Groupie".

Hope this helps you. I know it's a tough choice.

- Jack

[Jackpine]

And, Lars, I'm not trying to stack the deck here but look at this thread I just posted in on another forum (at the end): http://www.f150online.com/forums/chips-tuners-programming/363845-shift-points.html

There Do seem to be differences in the hardware that are more than just "cosmetic".

- Jack

[88Racing]

Jack,
Thank you for all the info. The post link to f150 was quite informative. "Set it and forget it" just a quote from an info-mercial. Do not remember who or what product. That's my moto when driving down the road. See way to many accidents from people messing around with hair to hand helds in a month. I rather just stop and adjust then on the fly.
Reason behind this: power seat fried controls out as I was adjusting it @ 80 mph in a caddy of all cars, pinned me up against the steering wheel in a heart beat! Later found out that somehow a wire shorted out melted in the harness doubled up voltage in the motor. The force of the increased speed broke the stops in the rails as it traveled forward. I was lucky to get the cruise off and coast to a stop. So that's why that quote sticks in my head to this day. Sorry about drifting off the subject.
The Gryphon does seem to have a good foundation and support. But like all of the other posts I have been reading each and every tuner has its own problems. The positive thing I find about the gryphon is that its mount to the dash makes it look stock to the vehicle. No suction cup mounts or drilling in a pedestool bracket. Less likely for a theif to take also the way it looks on the dash. Also the post on the shift points is good thing to know.
Thank you again

-Lars