cleatus12r
Fri, February 20th, 2009, 04:29 PM
I posted this at FTE and PSN. I wanted to put a copy here as well so that anyone who visits the "Minotaur Automotive Tuning Software" forum will see it.
Some of you may remember me buying the Sniper Delta Force software about 8 months back so I could "roll my own" tunes. I will tell you right now that Sniper is a powerful tool and it works extremely well. Chris Stajdel is very helpful in any software needs and always helped me out when I had a file problem. I have enjoyed using Sniper because it's pretty dang easy and straightforward as far as tuning goes. I have made dozens of tunes using it and have quite a few out and about (emailed tunes to other Sniper users in the country) being used right now as well as local customers.
Many of you may also remember that I was slightly discouraged when Bill Cohron started offering his Minotaur tuning software to everyone. That's in the past and now I have both Sniper and Minotaur.
What's the difference?
Well, they are both PCMX based. Basically, that means the layout and toolbar are the same because the base program was written by the same guy. They are very similar which is really nice because the learning curve is no longer there when trying to navigate the parameters.
The differences pretty much stop there though.
Bill has really done well when taking the time to make sure that the scaling of the graphs is usable. I guess when tuning with the graphs, you need to make sure they are legible. The Sniper scaling is usually way off....where there should be a definite difference in the line's path, there is nothing but a flat line.
Sniper does not allow a "genius" menu. When looking through the scalars, tables, and functions Sniper allows, most are at the "basic" or "advanced" level which means that you have limited access to most data to change. That's probably a good thing if you have zero clue as to what you're changing...there's somewhat of a safety net. Bill allows "genius" use so the list of parameters, maps, and functions is seemingly never ending. Sniper's program also has nothing in the way of a "help" menu when making changes to certain data....Bill took the time to write them out.
I always had an issue trying to figure out how to make the automatics work in certain ways with Sniper. Well, it turns out that Sniper left out a LOT of changeable items compared to Minotaur and I instantly noticed where those changes had to be made.
When it comes to tuning, the old body style trucks have a fraction of changeable data as the Super Duty trucks, but the changeable parameters are still way more refined with Minotaur.
Here's how I thought it out:
I have a lot of "templates" (definition files) for Sniper....manual and automatic. I bought only automatic definition files from Bill. The reason for this is that the Sniper program works EXCELLENT for manual transmission trucks. Anyone can make them more powerful, responsive, and fun to drive. The real challenge is with the automatic transmission operation (and I know most will agree). I wanted to be able to "live tune". Sniper does not allow emulation with their software unless "genius" mode is selected.....and only the head honcho folks at Sniper get to use "genius" mode.
Also, I saved some coin by using my existing chips and burner. The burner that Bill sells is the exact same burner that Sniper uses. There are a few other programmming advantages to this, but I won't get into them now.
The only drawbacks to getting used to Sniper and then getting Minotaur are that the pressure data is listed as PSI in Sniper ( USA!!) and is listed in KPa (Kilopascals) in Minotaur. I don't read metric so well....calculations are in order. In addition, it's going to take me a while to transfer all of my existing tunes to Bill's binary from Sniper's encrypted binary....but it's only time, not a big deal. The nomenclature is slightly different too, but it's nothing that can't be figured out easily. I have also found that the y-axis for load is upside down from what Sniper has...it's kind of hard to get used to. Seeing MFD of 70 on top and 5 on the bottom vs. 5 on top/70 on the bottom makes for a confusing time.
What's better? Well, they both cost about the same. Bill KNOWS 7.3s and I think that the Sniper guys have taken Gale Banks' advice (the 7.3 is a "dead platform") and still offer 7.3L tuning software but don't want to get into further development. Any requests to fix some shortcomings have been ignored or put on the back burner.
I LOVE TUNING. My wife has never seen me so happy (or giddy like a Valley Girl) when I get to come home and veg out in front of the computer or test out new (to me) developments.
Bill's software (Minotaur) is better but I would have no problem whatsoever recommending Sniper to anyone who wants to use it. I still use it on manual transmission trucks.
Bill will talk to you forever on the phone too, and I like his reasoning about what is going to keep the 7.3L bandwagon merrily rolling along.
Thank you David Lott for the Sniper Delta Force program!!
Thank you Bill Cohron (and his wife, Corey) for the Minotaur!!
I will edit in screenshots as time allows!
Take it for what it's worth.
Some of you may remember me buying the Sniper Delta Force software about 8 months back so I could "roll my own" tunes. I will tell you right now that Sniper is a powerful tool and it works extremely well. Chris Stajdel is very helpful in any software needs and always helped me out when I had a file problem. I have enjoyed using Sniper because it's pretty dang easy and straightforward as far as tuning goes. I have made dozens of tunes using it and have quite a few out and about (emailed tunes to other Sniper users in the country) being used right now as well as local customers.
Many of you may also remember that I was slightly discouraged when Bill Cohron started offering his Minotaur tuning software to everyone. That's in the past and now I have both Sniper and Minotaur.
What's the difference?
Well, they are both PCMX based. Basically, that means the layout and toolbar are the same because the base program was written by the same guy. They are very similar which is really nice because the learning curve is no longer there when trying to navigate the parameters.
The differences pretty much stop there though.
Bill has really done well when taking the time to make sure that the scaling of the graphs is usable. I guess when tuning with the graphs, you need to make sure they are legible. The Sniper scaling is usually way off....where there should be a definite difference in the line's path, there is nothing but a flat line.
Sniper does not allow a "genius" menu. When looking through the scalars, tables, and functions Sniper allows, most are at the "basic" or "advanced" level which means that you have limited access to most data to change. That's probably a good thing if you have zero clue as to what you're changing...there's somewhat of a safety net. Bill allows "genius" use so the list of parameters, maps, and functions is seemingly never ending. Sniper's program also has nothing in the way of a "help" menu when making changes to certain data....Bill took the time to write them out.
I always had an issue trying to figure out how to make the automatics work in certain ways with Sniper. Well, it turns out that Sniper left out a LOT of changeable items compared to Minotaur and I instantly noticed where those changes had to be made.
When it comes to tuning, the old body style trucks have a fraction of changeable data as the Super Duty trucks, but the changeable parameters are still way more refined with Minotaur.
Here's how I thought it out:
I have a lot of "templates" (definition files) for Sniper....manual and automatic. I bought only automatic definition files from Bill. The reason for this is that the Sniper program works EXCELLENT for manual transmission trucks. Anyone can make them more powerful, responsive, and fun to drive. The real challenge is with the automatic transmission operation (and I know most will agree). I wanted to be able to "live tune". Sniper does not allow emulation with their software unless "genius" mode is selected.....and only the head honcho folks at Sniper get to use "genius" mode.
Also, I saved some coin by using my existing chips and burner. The burner that Bill sells is the exact same burner that Sniper uses. There are a few other programmming advantages to this, but I won't get into them now.
The only drawbacks to getting used to Sniper and then getting Minotaur are that the pressure data is listed as PSI in Sniper ( USA!!) and is listed in KPa (Kilopascals) in Minotaur. I don't read metric so well....calculations are in order. In addition, it's going to take me a while to transfer all of my existing tunes to Bill's binary from Sniper's encrypted binary....but it's only time, not a big deal. The nomenclature is slightly different too, but it's nothing that can't be figured out easily. I have also found that the y-axis for load is upside down from what Sniper has...it's kind of hard to get used to. Seeing MFD of 70 on top and 5 on the bottom vs. 5 on top/70 on the bottom makes for a confusing time.
What's better? Well, they both cost about the same. Bill KNOWS 7.3s and I think that the Sniper guys have taken Gale Banks' advice (the 7.3 is a "dead platform") and still offer 7.3L tuning software but don't want to get into further development. Any requests to fix some shortcomings have been ignored or put on the back burner.
I LOVE TUNING. My wife has never seen me so happy (or giddy like a Valley Girl) when I get to come home and veg out in front of the computer or test out new (to me) developments.
Bill's software (Minotaur) is better but I would have no problem whatsoever recommending Sniper to anyone who wants to use it. I still use it on manual transmission trucks.
Bill will talk to you forever on the phone too, and I like his reasoning about what is going to keep the 7.3L bandwagon merrily rolling along.
Thank you David Lott for the Sniper Delta Force program!!
Thank you Bill Cohron (and his wife, Corey) for the Minotaur!!
I will edit in screenshots as time allows!
Take it for what it's worth.