Pro's & Con's Gryphon vs. Phoenix + Edge Insight

[wood4heat]

I have been set on the Gryphon CS since joining this site but some of the things I've read have me concerned. Mainly that something could go wrong when switching tunes leaving me out of commission. I still like the idea of all my gauges in one neat package as well as some of the diagnostic abilities and think I may have come up with a compromise. What do you all think of running the Phoenix chip with the Edge Insight?

I can see benefits to being able to change a tune on the fly but wonder how these two would work together. Do you get the same level of tuning with the Phoenix as the Gryphon?

Also can the Phoenix compensate for oversize tires?

I wasn't sure if I should put this in the Gryphon or Phoenix forum. I figured since it's going on a 2003 7.3 it would fit here and users of each platform could share their thoughts.

Thanks!

[ticopowell]

I can't answer all your questions on this one, but I do understand that you can have both the phoenix and the insight at the same time. I don't know though if the phoenix can adjust for tire size. If it can, it can be tuned for the tires and then if you change sizes you will have to purchase new tunes. Also Bill's tunes are the same across all his platforms, so the phoenix can have the same ones as a Gryphon.
Hope I helped. :cool:

[wood4heat]

Also Bill's tunes are the same across all his platforms, so the phoenix can have the same ones as a Gryphon.
Hope I helped. :cool:

That's what I would think. Even though I'm interested in the Phoenix I wonder how you can order off the menu with the FU chip but need all pertinent info from your truck to tune the Gryphon. Seems like you would get a higher level of customization.

Is it just because he writes Gryphon tunes to work with your ecm programming and chip tunes simply replace the existing program? If that's the case do chips have a shorter lead time?

Oh and you did help! :beers:

[ticopowell]

I think the phoenix somehow replaces the ecm so you don't need to know what tune you have... but I could be wrong, I have been before. :hehe: I dont think though that this will change the wait because he will still customize the tune to you and your specific truck, plus he works on orders in the same order that he recieved them.
Glad I could help :)

[widieseltech]

i have the gryphon cs tunes by bill tunes are great if your not going to go crazy with mods then i would get a gryphon cs, for me i wish i would have got a phoenix chip now because when i bought it i was only planning on doing a chip, exhaust and intake. now i have a chip, intake, exhaust, regulated return, garrett gpt38r, im planning on doing stage 1 single shots. so a 6 pos chip would work better for more customizable tuning in my opinion. If your looking for a gryphon cs i'd maybe sell you mine.

[Jackpine]

Instead of the Edge Insight - You might want to look into this: UltraGauge Automotive Information Center and OBDII Scan Tool (http://ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm)

I don't know if it will work in your truck, but at the price they are quoting, and for what it can do, I'd sure find out.

Then, the Phoenix chip is a VERY good choice for your truck to get better performance. And yes, it does magical transformation on the ECM that works "on the fly" and other neat things that the Gryphon can't do. I think it is way cheaper, too.

- Jack

[wood4heat]

Instead of the Edge Insight - You might want to look into this: UltraGauge Automotive Information Center and OBDII Scan Tool (http://ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm)

- Jack

Interested... Looking at the web page I wonder if it's aimed more at gas vehicles. It does list the 7.3 but doesn't show EGT's boost or trans temp as options. For that price I'll definitely give them a call to verify though. I'll post back with anything I learn!

[wood4heat]

Their website doesn't list any contact info but I did look at the list of gauges offered. It appears to be all 75 that they claim and does not show the big three us diesel guys are interested in. (EGT's, trans temp, or boost) Unless anyone knows more about them I guess I'll be sticking with the insight.

[ticopowell]

correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt an EGT guage and a boost guage require a seperate sensor? I know they should all have a trans temp sensor, but the others I thought were all aftermarket stuff... so the insight might need an extra sensor to monitor that too... thanks for the info :)

[wood4heat]

You have to buy the sensor for EGT's ($100-$130) but boost along with everything else can be read from the OBD port.

Unfortunately the boost function may not be accurate. I guess aftermarket programming increases boost then hides it from the ecm to keep it from defueling. Since the insight reads directly from the ecm it only sees what the programming shows it.

Since I'm not shooting for the stars power wise I'm not worried if the boost is off. I figure accurate or not I'll at least have a baseline to watch and if that changes I'll know something is up.

[ticopowell]

Cool thanks! and yeah I thought as much. I'm sure it couldn't hurt to get a proper guage eventually... :cheesy smile:

[wood4heat]

There are two EGT sensors from edge. One is expandable and allows additional sensors to be daisy chained to it. I'm not sure what all is available but it would be cool if they offered a boost sensor directly off the turbo. :thumbs up yellow:

[RacinJasonWV]

There are two EGT sensors from edge. One is expandable and allows additional sensors to be daisy chained to it. I'm not sure what all is available but it would be cool if they offered a boost sensor directly off the turbo. :thumbs up yellow:

Yes you nailed that! I am running the Insight for gauges and that is the only downfall I have found. I do not trust the reading on boost. Have actually been considering getting a mechanical gauge for it. :sigh:. You idea would be an incredible addition to this neat piece of equipment.

My issue is that with the TS chip it will only get 14psi of boost. Stock all the way to 140 setting. I am wondering if the chip modifies the boost signal to prevent overboost reading. But along with that the EGT's go WAY high even without towing. I borrowed a Banks Ottomind and show 20psi with no extreme EGT's. So is that due to a less agressive burn or the chip no good or something actually wrong and boost levels are really that low. Not sure how to know without installing a real gauge.

But to answer your question, the features that the Insight has is amazing. I even have a picture of the kids as my background. Troublecode readings :thumbs up yellow:, user setable alarms :thumbs up yellow:, user setable maintenance reminders :thumbs up yellow:, upgradeable to include backup camera and turbo timer :thumbs up yellow:, realiable boost readings :thumbsdwn:, adjustable range on gauges :thumbsdwn:.

I hope that helps a little. Jason

[RacinJasonWV]

OK I have one more issue with the Insight. I tested it with a pressure pump last night on the map sensor. The gauge will only show 22psi max, after that it goes to 0 and the truck has to be keyed off before it will reset. So if you are going to use a wastegate controller like I am planning, you are going to need another gauge. Other than that it is great.