New tune for a new camper????

[BigSur]

Just looking for some quick advice here. I'm about 1 week from purchasing a brand new camper :happy-dancing: I'm upgrading from a small Jayco popup to a 26' Jayco travel trailer. "Dry weight" on the camper is about 4,800 lbs....I'm assuming I'll be closer to 5300 lbs once loaded.

My plan is to run on the stock 87 tow tune for now. Is that a good decision? What advantages will I see with a custom tow tune???

Any help is always appreciated. Thanks in advance Jack :cheesy smile:

P.S. On another note, I had a complete brain fart tonight.....removed the Gryphon w/out returning back to stock, and tried to update my tunes. Yes, I'm an idiot....I've read and been told a MILLION times not to do that. Luckily, all that happened was Pegasus said "can not update til you return to stock". SO...I reinstalled, switched to stock, and successfully completed the updates. I haven't reinstalled the unit as of yet but I think all is well. Do you think I'm okay here.....other than the red spot on my left cheek from left hooking myself?

[ticopowell]

Just looking for some quick advice here. I'm about 1 week from purchasing a brand new camper :happy-dancing: I'm upgrading from a small Jayco popup to a 26' Jayco travel trailer. "Dry weight" on the camper is about 4,800 lbs....I'm assuming I'll be closer to 5300 lbs once loaded.

My plan is to run on the stock 87 tow tune for now. Is that a good decision? What advantages will I see with a custom tow tune???

Any help is always appreciated. Thanks in advance Jack :cheesy smile:

P.S. On another note, I had a complete brain fart tonight.....removed the Gryphon w/out returning back to stock, and tried to update my tunes. Yes, I'm an idiot....I've read and been told a MILLION times not to do that. Luckily, all that happened was Pegasus said "can not update til you return to stock". SO...I reinstalled, switched to stock, and successfully completed the updates. I haven't reinstalled the unit as of yet but I think all is well. Do you think I'm okay here.....other than the red spot on my left cheek from left hooking myself?

Lucky guy... Because you had the most up to date pegasus installed you should be ok, it knew that you still had your truck tuned so it wouldnt touch anything in the Gryphon.
A custom tow tune will take into account the extra weight that you are adding as well as your driving style and where you live. the canned tow tune will work until you get the custom one loaded, but I still think you will like, and your truck will like, the custom one better than a canned tune.

[Longshot270]

Your truck should be able to pull it pretty easily stock but custom tunes will definitely help out. We pulled a 26' jayco behind my parent's expedition and it was a 4.6L

[Jackpine]

Very good replies, Ticopowell and Longshot. You young guys are on the ball.

As I posted in another thread, the updates to Pegasus have corrected some deficiencies in the user interface, among other things. One of those deficiencies was not rejecting a programmer holding a tune. Yours is fine - go ahead and use it.

The issue of towing with the new popup is a bit more subjective. I think the canned tow tune is pretty nearly designed for towing a trailer with that weight (in the 5000# range). It's certainly going to be a valid tune to use when you get that camper.

But, a custom tune MAY perform enough better to justify the cost. I think I'd like to talk to Bill about that. I doubt the difference between custom and canned will blow you away, but it MAY "feel" better and be slightly better on gas consumption. Regardless, Bill will not try to "sell" you on a custom tune if he doesn't think it's really worthwhile.

You're going to feel like you're living in a mansion when you get the new camper! What are you going to do with all that room? :happy-dancing:

- Jack

[BigSur]

Thanks guys...appreciate the advice. One thing to consider is that the new camper is 4,785 lbs "dry". Once I add cargo, and if I had anything in my tanks, I could easily be pushing 7,000lbs. With that said, $30 for another tune that might help is definitely worth it IMO.

Should I try to get ahold of Bill direct on this?

[Jackpine]

I'm tempted to move this to the "Towing" forum, and may do so eventually.

Be careful loading things in the trailer. If you actually have 7,000# there, your tongue weight should be 840-1050#. (12-15% of 7000.) Now, this can easily exceed your truck's rear axle limit unless you use a Weight Distributing hitch, which I think you need to use anyway if the trailer is in the 5000# range. But notice, the 1050# tongue weight is a Class IV WD hitch, and I think 600-750# for 5000# is too.

Also, what is the load rating on your trailer axle/tires? You should ideally not go higher than 80% of that figure.

Regardless, I URGE you to take your truck/trailer combination to a truck scale and get things weighed. You can get one weight with your truck's two axles on separate platforms and the trailer axle(s) on the third, and then do a separate weighing with the trailer disconnected on the third platform and the truck by itself on the first two platforms. This way, you will know your truck's axle loadings (with and without the trailer), and, you'll know the total weight of the trailer. DO NOT take the trailer manufacturer's word for anything!

Tell the person in charge of the scale what you want to do before driving on it. I think he/she will be very accommodating. And unless there's a big lineup of big rigs, you can take your time. When I did it here in Tucson, it was $9.00 per weighing. It was cheap information that led me to have my trailer axle moved forward 3" to balance the trailer properly (my "dry" trailer weight was actually higher than the manufacturer's spec, and the tongue weight was much higher than it should have been - overloading my WD hitch)!

Yes, talk to Bill if you can reach him about the advisability of a tow tune.

- Jack

[BigSur]

Good info, thanks Jack. The Gross Axle Weight Rating on each of the 2 axles is 3500lbs. The dealer IS supplying a distribution hitch with the purchase, so I'm good there. Dry weight is "around" 4800 lbs....the GVWR is 7500. I really would be surprised I go much further than 5500 lbs.....we really don't carry all that much and I will likely always travel with empty water tanks. In any event, I do like your advice to have it weighed. I just need to figure out where the best place to do it is.....do most standard inspection stations have them? Also...off the cuff, do you know what the front/rear axle ratings are for an F150? Something tells me you know this by heart, but no biggie....I can easily pull my manual or find it online. Thanks again.

[Jackpine]

Good info, thanks Jack. The Gross Axle Weight Rating on each of the 2 axles is 3500lbs. The dealer IS supplying a distribution hitch with the purchase, so I'm good there. Dry weight is "around" 4800 lbs....the GVWR is 7500. I really would be surprised I go much further than 5500 lbs.....we really don't carry all that much and I will likely always travel with empty water tanks. In any event, I do like your advice to have it weighed. I just need to figure out where the best place to do it is.....do most standard inspection stations have them? Also...off the cuff, do you know what the front/rear axle ratings are for an F150? Something tells me you know this by heart, but no biggie....I can easily pull my manual or find it online. Thanks again.

I hardly know the axle ratings by heart! :hehe: It's different on every vehicle. The VIN sticker on your driver's side door tells you these figures (up near the top).

Once you get it all hooked up with the WD hitch, find a place that has a truck scale (it's called a CAT scale here) and my closest is at the TTT Truck Stop (so a truck stop is a good place to start). Possibly, you can find one online or, the trailer retailer should be able to point you to one.

I suspect you WILL be in the 5500# range - your 7000# figure really caught me by surprise.

With the WD hitch, and your trailer loaded in the normal manner, you'd like the increased load on your truck's axles to be EQUAL. The common way to measure this is by "deflection" (how much the front and rear of the truck "settle"). But a weight reading is much more accurate. The CAT scales are incredibly accurate. The instructions with your WD hitch should tell you how to transfer more or less weight to the front axle.

Once you have the truck ball locked to your tongue receiver, you can crank the height of the assembly as required to hook the chains or position the bars to adjust the weight transfer.

And, you need to adjust the hitch ball height so that the trailer rides pretty close to "level". This equalizes the load on tandem axle trailers and is best for single axle trailers too. Instructions with the WD hitch should give you guidance here too. As you can see, there's a bit of "fiddling", and you can't expect it to be perfect right off the bat - and with different loadings, you're going to get some deviations from optimum. But, the goal is to get all of the various combinations close to ideal.

We also travel with empty water tanks, and we usually "boondock camp". I have a recommendation here I'll post in a different thread.

And now, I think this really DOES belong in the towing section, so I'll move it there.

- Jack

[Longshot270]

Good tips Jack :thumbsup:

I'd leave the water tank empty because it is probably in front of the axle like mine, where you dont want an extra 300 pounds.

Also, as for maximum cargo weight to add to the trailer. My 26" Jayco says to not exceed 2674 pounds of cargo. So only about 2k if you have all the tanks nearly full.

[ticopowell]

Great info... Ill get a trailer someday... lol :)

[BigSur]

I've sent Bill an email regarding whether or not he recommends a custom tow tune in this situation. I'll wait to hear back and will definitely follow up to this thread to let you guys know how everything turns out. Thanks again.

[catdaddyxx]

Did you ever hear back from Bill? If you recognize my name from the other forum you know we have the same trailer. I just picked up a new CTS and was wondering the same thing you were about a custom tune tailored for my truck attached to a 26BH.

[BigSur]

Did you ever hear back from Bill? If you recognize my name from the other forum you know we have the same trailer. I just picked up a new CTS and was wondering the same thing you were about a custom tune tailored for my truck attached to a 26BH.

It's been awhile, so I can't remember exactly what I got back from Bill; however, I was determined that the tow tune for my setup isn't really necessary.....I think mostly based on weight. I've been towing with the canned tow tune and the setup runs great. Good luck bud!!

[badstang79]

I have a 28' K-Z Jag that I pull with my 5.4. Dry weight on it is somewhere around 8500 lbs. With the canned 87 tow tune, a cai, and until recently just a cat back exhaust my truck would pull it uphill at 75 w/out really kicking down at all. But I just ordered custom tunes do to the fact that although it will do it, is it that good for the motor/drive line?

[catdaddyxx]

I had an Edge Evo prior to this and the canned tow tune would send my tranny temps through the roof. At highway speeds I'm talking about a 30-40 degree increase over stock. Lots of more power for pulling but that doesn't help much sitting on the side of the road waiting for your tranny to cool off.