Does this make sense?

[wood4heat]

I recently started a thread "http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/1999-2003-7-3l-power-stroke-diesel/6454-tough-question.html " to try and figure out if my '03 7.3 had a shift kit before ordering a PHP chip. I think I was wrong in what I was feeling. There are four distinct shifts, with only four gears that can't be right? I figure what I'm feeling as firm shifts are actually the torque converter locking up in each gear. Now can anybody tell me if this is normal, The 1st lockup or shift is very firm as is the second. The 3rd is undetectable unless I'm watching the tach and the 4th is the hardest of all with the largest drop in rpm's.

Is this normal for stock, with a shift kit, an aftermarket torque converter, or just wrong?

The dealer that sold me the truck said the previous owner had the trans rebuilt but they couldn't tell me anything about the rebuild.

Thanks again!

[Longshot270]

Your going to feel the first shift (1-2) because of the large change in RPMs. The second shift (2-3) is usually subtle. The third shift (3-4) is usually very hard to detect. As you stated the last one, the torque converter locking, is the most noticeable with a major drop in RPM.

This is for my gasser truck but I seem to remember my dad's powerstroke being similar. His has been bone stock and very well maintained. I usually see a drop of around 200-300 rpm for each shift and then a large drop from the torque converter locking.
http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/members/longshot270-albums-pics-picture778-shifting-tc-lock-examples.jpg

It is nearly impossible for, at least me, to know if you have any transmission upgrades without being there. Without hard numbers the words you use to describe it are just opinions. One person may think 3 minutes after a set time is late while another may consider 30 minutes late. The word late describes the situation but can be interpreted differently. I'd look underneath very closely and see if there are any signs of modification. Things like bolts and screws having chips or corners being smoothed from being torqued would be signs that parts have been removed before. They do not guarantee any modification but it will at least tell if they have been touched. Otherwise you'd have to just ask the previous owner or have someone take it apart who would know.

[wood4heat]

Wow great info!

I tried to describe the 1-2, 2-3 shifts and 4th TC lock as feeling like an 8" or 10" sub bumping behind my seat. Not harsh but positive and obvious.

The dealer who sold me the truck told me the trans has been rebuilt but couldn't tell my by who or what was done. I'm just hoping to get an idea of whether it had a shift kit put in it without having to open it up.

[TwinTurbo]

Have you crawled under and looked at the transmission? I put one in my truck that came out of a friends, that had been rebuilt, it had a tag on it from the company and I was then able to call them and find out what they do in a typical rebuild. Just a thought.:shrug:

[cleatus12r]

wood4heat, what is your PCM code? Longshot270 had some really great information there, but as far as the 4R100 is concerned it is a little off....

Under normal acceleration, the TCC is commanded to apply in 3rd gear at some point (Depending on PCM code, which is why I asked for it).

If you can truly FEEL the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts under normal acceleration, it's likely you have something done to the transmission. Typically, with stock programming and a stock transmission, the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts SLIDE into gear and you really don't notice much of an RPM change.

[wood4heat]

Have you crawled under and looked at the transmission? I put one in my truck that came out of a friends, that had been rebuilt, it had a tag on it from the company and I was then able to call them and find out what they do in a typical rebuild. Just a thought.:shrug:

Not closely, I'll give it a good look over the weekend. :thumbs up yellow:

wood4heat, what is your PCM code? Longshot270 had some really great information there, but as far as the 4R100 is concerned it is a little off....

Under normal acceleration, the TCC is commanded to apply in 3rd gear at some point (Depending on PCM code, which is why I asked for it).

If you can truly FEEL the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts under normal acceleration, it's likely you have something done to the transmission. Typically, with stock programming and a stock transmission, the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts SLIDE into gear and you really don't notice much of an RPM change.

I'll look for the PCM code as well. You can definentely feel the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts under normal driving, the next shift slides in as you described.

[ToMang07]

I have a little bit of a hard shift from 1-2 only from a dead stop, but I'm pretty sure it's just the TC locking, the tranny shifts VERY smooth the rest of the time, tons of power and no slip.

[wood4heat]

So I crawled under the truck yesterday evening and spent 20 min wiping away road grime but didn't find a tag or any identifier left by whoever rebuilt the trans. I also looked for the PCM code and had no luck there either. It was a long day and I didn't have the energy to pull the pcm.

I don't need the code to order a chip do I?

Also since my 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are solid would it be possible or even recommended to leave them alone and firm up the 3-4 shift with the chip?

At this point I'm wondering if I should just leave the trans tuning alone and do a valve body later. At least then I would know what I had.

[ToMang07]

So I crawled under the truck yesterday evening and spent 20 min wiping away road grime but didn't find a tag or any identifier left by whoever rebuilt the trans. I also looked for the PCM code and had no luck there either. It was a long day and I didn't have the energy to pull the pcm.

I don't need the code to order a chip do I?

Also since my 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are solid would it be possible or even recommended to leave them alone and firm up the 3-4 shift with the chip?

At this point I'm wondering if I should just leave the trans tuning alone and do a valve body later. At least then I would know what I had.

Yes, you do need the code. All you need to pull the PCM is a 7mm and a 10mm socket. Remove the 10mm harness from behind the fire-wall, (under the master cylinder) then remove the 2-7m bolts holding the black box that secures the PCM.

Turn it to the right and remove.... reverse to re-install. :thumbs up yellow:

The Code should be on the plastic cover where the chip will go, and on the end of the PCM that plugs into the harness.

And from my experiance... DO NOT use the black box to re-mount the PCM... mine was turning the chip causing random shut-offs and no-start. Removed the box.... no more problems. :fyi:

[907DAVE]

One thing I do with mine is to remove the box and use that small grounding tab (on the lower 7MM bolt) to keep the PCM up against the firewall. This also acts as a case ground for the PCM.......whether its necessary or not - I could not tell you.

[ToMang07]

One thing I do with mine is to remove the box and use that small grounding tab (on the lower 7MM bolt) to keep the PCM up against the firewall. This also acts as a case ground for the PCM.......whether its necessary or not - I could not tell you.

I fashoned a little "Z" shaped brackt... attached a rubber runner on the PCM mount and a rubber "arm" on the bracket....and used the lower screw on the stock mounting bracket as well. I think I will go get a pic... could come in useful!...

[ToMang07]

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx170/ToMang07/0fe97890.jpg

:thumbs up yellow:

[OneMeanStroker]

Very nice!!!

[cleatus12r]

One thing I do with mine is to remove the box and use that small grounding tab (on the lower 7MM bolt) to keep the PCM up against the firewall. This also acts as a case ground for the PCM.......whether its necessary or not - I could not tell you.


You go a lot further than I do.

The 2000 PCM is flopping around; only being held in place by the wiring harness. The PCM in the 1995 is resting between the underhood fuse box and brake master cylinder.

[907DAVE]

I did this mainly so I can get the connector back into the PCM without any assistance, and seems to work well.

[ToMang07]

I did this mainly so I can get the connector back into the PCM without any assistance, and seems to work well.

Bingo! :thumbs up yellow:

[wood4heat]

I got the check I've been waiting on today. This weekend I'll hunt down my PCM code and by Monday I'll be placing my order. BIG POWER HERE I COME!!! :happy-dancing: Or at least better power. :cheesy smile:

[dietoremain]

mine chip is held in by a whole lotta electrical tape.

[wood4heat]

wood4heat, what is your PCM code? Longshot270 had some really great information there, but as far as the 4R100 is concerned it is a little off....

Under normal acceleration, the TCC is commanded to apply in 3rd gear at some point (Depending on PCM code, which is why I asked for it).



Just took a look, my code is VDH5. Does that tell you anything?

I would also still like to know if the 3-4 shift can be cleaned up without changing the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.

Would it be best just to call in before filling out the order form?

[cj45lc]

I'd give them a call just to make sure you get all your questions answered. That was one of the things that really impressed me, no matter how dumb or trivial the questions I asked I got great answers without being made to feel like a dumba$$...lol. They are really a great outfit to deal with.

[cleatus12r]

VDH5.

You should have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, TCC apply, 4th gear pattern. The torque converter clutch will release momentarily during a 4-3 downshift and there will be a 2nd gear TCC apply if you stand on the accelerator above 16 MPH.

Sounds to me like you're feeling the torque converter clutch apply as the "undetectable" shift. The 3-4 upshift will drop a lot of RPM....that's normal. If the 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shifts are firm, then I would say that the transmission has been violated.

Sounds like you have an aftermarket valve body in the transmission and a stock torque converter.

[rammertide07]

Never had problem with the pcm casing causing randon shutoff. What I did was put cord holders along the side of the PCM casing to "snake" the cable through. That keeps tension on the cable and holds it in place.

Only problem I have found is the little solder joints on the end of the chip. Slight vibrations and and removing/installing the chip have caused the sharp solder joints to scratch some of the PCM circuits that lead off where the chip slides on. For this, I put some liquid tape over those solder joints so they are not so pointy.

[wood4heat]

Why couldn't you just cut out the back of the box where it interferes with the chip?

[rammertide07]

I'm not sure what the other guys are talking about with the PCM casing interferring with the wire. I cut the casing out where I could slide the chip in/out without having to disconnect everything.

[wood4heat]

Thanks to everybody for all the help and advice. I called Cody this morning and he answered all my questions so I just placed my order! :woot: I ordered:

1-Stock,
2-40hp tow,
3-65hp tow,
4-80hp DD,
5-120hp race, and
6-whisper mode.

I did make a mistake though, I entered my axle ratio (3.73) and modified tire size (285/75/16) but somehow deleted my stock tire size (265/75/16).

Cody, if you read this today could you add that info to my order?

Sorry for the mistake and thanks again for all your help.

[cleatus12r]

No biggie. Typically we don't change the tire size stuff for anything smaller than 33" tires since there is no speedometer correction in the chip.

[wood4heat]

I have seen some programmers that defuel on shifts. Seems like that would save a lot of wear and tear on the drive train, is that possible with a PHP chip on our trucks?

[cleatus12r]

The factory programming has a torque reduction strategy during the shifts. We keep this in place on the towing and daily driving tunes. The performance and race tunes do not have this feature...especially on the 02-03 trucks because of shifting concerns due to transmission hardware changes.

[wood4heat]

The performance and race tunes do not have this feature...especially on the 02-03 trucks because of shifting concerns due to transmission hardware changes.

Whenever you have time I would love to know what you meant by this. Especially since I have an '03. Should I be concerned or pay special attention to anything?

[cleatus12r]

Whenever you have time I would love to know what you meant by this. Especially since I have an '03. Should I be concerned or pay special attention to anything?


The valve body spacer on the 02 and 03 trucks is different than the one on earlier trucks so it's easy to get a long, drawn-out shift on higher horsepower programs due to restricted flow problems. Sometimes, you'll get a flare and a bump too.

[wood4heat]

The valve body spacer on the 02 and 03 trucks is different than the one on earlier trucks so it's easy to get a long, drawn-out shift on higher horsepower programs due to restricted flow problems. Sometimes, you'll get a flare and a bump too.

I'm trying not to take up too much of your time here but is that what I could be feeling on the 2-3 shift occasionally? It doesn’t always happen but sometimes it feels like the clutch disengages just before the shift allowing the rpm’s to build momentarily and then hits firmly into third. Seems more prominent when there is a load on the truck. The truck continues to accelerate through it but the tach and speedo don't seem 100% matched up. It's so minor I not exactly sure it's not just my imagination but after the info you gave in an earlier post I thought it was possibly the stock torque converter clutch catching up with the modified valve body. I was hoping if there was something going on it would be corrected with your tuning.

Could this cause longevity problems with the higher hp tunes and is there something I could do to improve it?

Also thanks for the time and info you’re sharing. I really appreciate it.

[wood4heat]

I've had a hectic couple of weeks but did receive my chip. Almost a week later I finally got around to installing it. Only went for a short drive but WOW! The 80hp DD adds a nice bit of pep and the 120hp race is scary. It's such a drastic increase I don't trust the tranny to hold up to it. I was honestly afraid to go WOT on it, especially through the shifts.

Definitely happy with the tunes but might need some time to build my confidence in the truck.

[cj45lc]

I hear you, it's gonna take a while to wear the NEW off of it...lol