Mysterious miss

[88Racing]

To begin with I haven't had time to install gryphon or ud pullys yet.

This morning had wet slushy snow and about 30 f. Drove 15 miles went and ate lunch. Truck was parked and off. After eating went to mail letters had the truck in 4x4 and in 2nd, continued to target approx 1 mile after post office by the time I got into parking lot the engine was shaking like it wasn't firing on all 8 (no cel came on either). Parked the truck went shopping for 45 minutes. Came back out of store praying truck would start and it did, ran fine all the way home. No cel and no problems. On the way home ran it in d and 4x4.

Did something get wet and dry out?
Something else going on?

Lars
:confused:

[Jackpine]

It really DOES sound like something "wet", doesn't it? Sure doesn't sound like "limp mode", not if you didn't get an overheat warning.

I know these engines are very sensitive to water in the vicinity of the plugs, but if a truck can't stand a little slush, well sheesh!

I'm sure stumped.

- Jack

[Grabber523]

It really DOES sound like something "wet", doesn't it? Sure doesn't sound like "limp mode", not if you didn't get an overheat warning.

I know these engines are very sensitive to water in the vicinity of the plugs, but if a truck can't stand a little slush, well sheesh!

I'm sure stumped.

- Jack

If you pulled codes on it it would probably have some in there for cylinder misfires, even though it didn't trip the CEL. Have you changed the plugs on it yet?

[88Racing]

No plugs or cops changed yet.

Only 23K on truck mostly highway miles

If the gryphon were hooked up could it pull them or does have to see them as the pcm does

Lars

[Grabber523]

No plugs or cops changed yet.

Only 23K on truck mostly highway miles

If the gryphon were hooked up could it pull them or does have to see them as the pcm does

Lars

If the PCM see it, the Gryphon should...just because you don't have a CEL doesn't mean there aren't codes stored in there.

[Jackpine]

If the PCM see it, the Gryphon should...just because you don't have a CEL doesn't mean there aren't codes stored in there.

Right! Go into the "Diagnostics" menu (or something like that). It should show any codes you have thrown. And - change your "Alerts" to tell you if even ONE code has been thrown. I think, the default setting on this is three codes.

Alerts is a pretty neat feature, once you get used to it and learn what should be an alert and what shouldn't.

- Jack

[jimmyv13]

With my Edge, I didn't see all of the codes that the Ford tech brought up...there were 2 or 3 4x4 codes that came up when my vacuum module crapped the bed and the Edge never showed them. The Edge only showed the P0171 code for a lean condition from a bad COP. Any idea why it would see certain codes and not others?

[88Racing]

Thanx Jack and Grabber523

This will give me more incentive to get the gryphon hooked up and running.

Lars:thumbs up yellow:

[Jackpine]

With my Edge, I didn't see all of the codes that the Ford tech brought up...there were 2 or 3 4x4 codes that came up when my vacuum module crapped the bed and the Edge never showed them. The Edge only showed the P0171 code for a lean condition from a bad COP. Any idea why it would see certain codes and not others?

No, I have no idea at all. I think this is a question for the Mad Doctor! Bill - HELP!

- Jack

[jimmyv13]

I also wonder if it will be different as a Gryphon?

[Power Hungry]

Keep in mind that the programmer (whether it's Gryphon or Evolution) only accesses the PCM diagnostic codes. This mean that any codes in the ABS Controller, Transfer Case Controller, Body Module, Instrument Cluster, etc. are not read. 4x4 codes are often stored in the ABS Controller and therefore wouldn't be displayed.

As for misfire, those would be stored in the PCM for a number of Key Cycles and should be readily available using the "Read DTCs" function from the diagnostics menu.

Take care.

[Jackpine]

Well heck! I learn something new each day. Thanks, Bill, I thought the PCM was the Great PooBah here and now you tell me it's only part of a committee! :o

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

Actually Jack, that's a great way to put it. Your vehicle no longer has a "brain" but something more like a controlling committee or board of directors, if you will. All the modules interact with each other and share data on common nodes. In fact, late model vehicle can have as many as 25 active communications nodes in the vehicle. This makes things interesting when programming or doing diagnostics.

Take care.

[Jackpine]

Actually Jack, that's a great way to put it. Your vehicle no longer has a "brain" but something more like a controlling committee or board of directors, if you will. All the modules interact with each other and share data on common nodes. In fact, late model vehicle can have as many as 25 active communications nodes in the vehicle. This makes things interesting when programming or doing diagnostics.

Take care.

What a flippn' mess! :yikes2: Hasn't anyone heard of the KISS principle?

One of my favorite SF authors, Robert A. Heinlein, once described a committee of ten as, "An organism with 20 legs and no brain". I've always felt that way about committees.

And now you tell me I have a committee in control of my truck? :notallthere: :(

- Jack

[88Racing]

Thanx Bill and Jack for the info.

Get this if one part of the commitee is not communicating correctly during the shut off of the vehicle it can lead to a dead battery! Had a Ford Fusion that a lady kept having dead batteries in. Replaced the battery 3 times and the altenator 1 time, over a 3 week period.

Finally at the end of its rope. Had it hooked up to a computer for 2 days and 2 nights, while Ford monitored it. Finally a Ford engineer called and told us to look at the back of the radio and guess what it was a lose connection to the sirius module.

This is the way it was explained to us. The pcm is still the brain during start up and shut down. During shut down it contacts all the other modules to make sure they are ok. If one doesn't respond it wakes everyone else up and goes through the same process all over again. Thus the dead battery, because of the continuous cycling. And with an intermitent connection like the sirius module was, its like a needle in the haystack. Sometimes the connection was there and sometimes it wasn't. No problems every since then. We have also experienced the same problem with a gmc envoy except that one involved the transfer case.

Lars

[Power Hungry]

Isn't troubleshooting fun??? :doh:

[Jackpine]

Good grief! Lars, I'm going to have sleepless nights thinking about what you just told us and wondering, if we're out in the boondocks, "Is my truck asleep, or, is it trying to get all the other committee members into a meeting?"

Thankfully, I have a little Honda 1KW generator I can use to start the damned thing if everything goes south.

- Jack

[88Racing]

Isn't programming fun?

The problem is/was the "intermitent" sometimes there sometimes not. If a person thinks about the platform of which programming is based. It makes it easier to understand and why idiot lights don't come on. The thresholds for the conditions weren't met.

Did you know that something as simple as your tail light bulb is being monitored by the pcm and/or module. Via voltage and ohms.

Lars

[Jackpine]

Isn't programming fun?

The problem is/was the "intermitent" sometimes there sometimes not. If a person thinks about the platform of which programming is based. It makes it easier to understand and why idiot lights don't come on. The thresholds for the conditions weren't met.

Did you know that something as simple as your tail light bulb is being monitored by the pcm and/or module. Via voltage and ohms.

Lars

I knew that a burned out 3rd brake light stops the cruise control from working (and I don't remember where I learned that). And a gent with the screen name SSCULLY, over on the f150online forum says if all brake lights are out, you won't be able to get the gearshift out of Park.

Lovely how engineering tries to protect us in every possible way.

- Jack

[88Racing]

The brake light one has happen at the body shop they were replacing the box and needed the truck moved and it didn't.

What was the other one? I think on 96.5 to 04h, a head light goes out the dome light stays on.

Good old safety issues become head scratchers.

Lars

PS what ever happen to the cracked distributer cap or a bad plug wire?

[Power Hungry]

I just miss worn out Points & Condenser. :sigh:

[jimmyv13]

There's always the lawnmower...

[88Racing]

Hate to tell you guys this but lawn mowers are following the vehicles and recreational vehicles also!

A lot of the higher end commercial types already have obd1 systems in them or some type of engine management systems.

Remember EPA and the trickle down theory.

Who would have ever thought motorcycles to have cats or even EFI systems.

Lars

[jimmyv13]

Hate to tell you guys this but lawn mowers are following the vehicles and recreational vehicles also!

A lot of the higher end commercial types already have obd1 systems in them or some type of engine management systems.

Remember EPA and the trickle down theory.

Who would have ever thought motorcycles to have cats or even EFI systems.

Lars

It's a good thing I can't afford anything with an EMS...my 19HP, 48" cut simple lawnmower is great....AND I can fix it when needed without plugging it in to a laptop to read codes.

I miss my 85 carb'd rotary RX-7....easiest thing I've ever had to work on.

[Sburn]

I just miss worn out Points & Condenser. :sigh:

Sorry, not me. Maybe I spent too much time by the side of the road in my formative years, messing around with a matchbook cover and a screwdriver trying to revive the points on some beater car in the dark.

Ditto with tweaking. I sure don't miss fiddling with carb jets, accelerator pump spings, float bowls, little tiny distributor springs and weights, and oh yeah -- reading plugs after trying to take them out while the headers are still hot.

I sure don't miss pulling heads and cams and such going from stock to performance modes. With a Gryphon, I'm but a few button presses away from what used to be a weekend project changing hard parts. A few more button presses returns it back to stock for things like smog checks.

[Power Hungry]

I understand the lack of enthusiasm with older vehicles and those types of engine controls (points, condenser, carburettor, distributor, etc.) and for reliability you just can't beat newer vehicles. Even performance is available at the push of a few buttons.

What I am waxing nostalgic about was the sheer simplicity of the older vehicles, where anyone with simple hand tools and Haynes manual could work on it and repair most problems. Nowadays, you need thousands of dollars worth of diagnostic equipment and specialty tools just to find a bad $25.00 sensor. Not to mention the hours and hours of classes on diagnostics, troubleshooting, and maintenance of today's electronic control systems.

I'm not saying that progress is bad, it just seems sometimes that things are moving too fast towards computerization. Sometimes simpler is better. Or maybe I'm just getting old. :shrug:

[Sburn]

What I am waxing nostalgic about was the sheer simplicity of the older vehicles, where anyone with simple hand tools and Haynes manual could work on it and repair most problems. Nowadays, you need thousands of dollars worth of diagnostic equipment and specialty tools just to find a bad $25.00 sensor. Not to mention the hours and hours of classes on diagnostics, troubleshooting, and maintenance of today's electronic control systems.


Very true. 30 years ago, when you did break down for bad points or whatever, with a couple of combo wrenches, and a scredriver or three, you stood a pretty fair chance of finding the problem and using your 1970's autoshop 101 skills to get back on the road.

Today, unless you happen to have a code reader or laptop/VCM with you, along with the training and skills to use it, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that you're on the tow truck to a dealer or shop.

As for repair parts, you could be assured of finding points, wires, plugs, etc.. day or night, just about anywhere. New cars now -- it's "BOHICA" at the dealer only for a very expensive module or sensor. And you're not going to get those parts on the spot if dealer is closed for the weekend.

[88Racing]

Ok, gryphon installed and no dtc's came up?

So maybe something got wet and dried out. Or to many key cycles.

Lars

[88Racing]

Ran through some good rain showers on sunday on the way home. I was a nervous nelly thinking the truck was going to start missing again. Nothing happened?

Who knows maybe the miss was a one time fluke? Or maybe a sign to get the plugs done?
Only 24K on the truck now.

Lars