A cold start tune?

[Kwikkordead]

I was wondering if it's possible to make a cold start tune that advances the start of injection a few degrees.
For safety reasons the engine rpm could be limited to 1200 rpm if you forget that it's on that tune and try to drive away.
Reason I am asking is my neighbor's house is directly downwind of my tailpipe and every time I start the engine the exhaust drifts to thier back door.

[cleatus12r]

Actually it would be really easy to do in ANY tune. The EOT-based SOI map would easily allow that to happen.

Your thinking regarding an actual TUNE would work too and wouldn't be too hard to do. When I get home tonight I'll post up some ideas for you.

[907DAVE]

Is there any more room for advance on a cold engine?

Seems pretty high already.

[ChuckD]

Start it and put it on high idle :cool:

[Kwikkordead]

Actually it would be really easy to do in ANY tune. The EOT-based SOI map would easily allow that to happen.

Your thinking regarding an actual TUNE would work too and wouldn't be too hard to do. When I get home tonight I'll post up some ideas for you.

Looking forward to your input.
I'm thinking a tune that has the SOI advanced beyond what is safe to drive with, but without harming the engine at idle or no-load fast idle.
Hence the need for an RPM limiter to remind you to switch away from that tune for driving.
What brought this idea to mind is working with the older VW mechanical injection diesel.
They have a "choke" knob that you pull to advance the pump timing a little. If you don't pull that knob the engine smokes like crazy, if it starts at all, and really struggles to idle. Pull the knob and it instantly clears up, idles smooth and all the smoke goes away.
Pulling the knob makes a difference in how the engine sounds when warmed up, the engine gets louder at idle.
This behavior is consistant for every one of those engines from brand new rebuilt on down to a worn out beater that still has decent compression.
.
My new engine in the truck is behaving the same way, as if it needs more SOI when cold compared to the old engine.
Switching to the 1100 rpm fast idle doesn't clear it up, it just raises the engine rpm.
The diesel clatter is also muffled under the excess fuel loading when cold as large clouds of fuel smoke as blown out of the tailpipe.
It will smoke for a long time, much longer than the old engine did.
If I drive away immediately, (gently) it clears within 1/4 mile and sounds normal.
I don't know what changed between the two, I re-used all the temperature sensors off of the old engine.
The new engine came with a new ICP sensor and a CMP sensor, but I have a hard time seeing where those two would make a difference in this case.

[cleatus12r]

Something like this? I should try it out in the morning.....




Dan, I know exactly what you're talking about with the "choke" knob on those diesels.

[Kwikkordead]

Yes, that is what I have in mind.
The engine makes the greatest amount of smoke on 1100 RPM fast idle.
So what I'm thinking is 30 degree 800 rpm and 1300 rpm: 8 degrees.
60 degrees for 800 and 1300: 6.5 and 7.
I don't know what values are in the 600 rpm cells, but I would like to bump those up a little too.
And all zeros above 1200.

Any higher or lower RPM makes less smoke.

[Longshot270]

:drool2: Wish I could do that with mine.

[cleatus12r]

Blue=Stock
Black=Changed

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu132/cleatus12r/eotstarttune2.jpg

[907DAVE]

Have you tried it out yet?

[cleatus12r]

Wellllllllll.

I was going to. My truck's due for an oil change (back to 15/40 from 5/40 for the warm season) and I was working on another guy's truck (another oil cooler reseal if you can believe it) when my wife came by and took my truck......indefinitely. I'm kind of going through a divorce/separation thing and I'll probably know what's up in about 6 months.......

Sorry, no details.

[Kwikkordead]

OK, well, that sux.
Sorry to hear about that.

[bfife]

Oh Cody, I'm sorry to hear that.
Having been there done that, twice actually, all I can say is it will get better.
Try to stay on the high road, try not to let her push your buttons.
Good luck Man

Barney

[Longshot270]

That is definitely not fun. Its a shame you weren't able to put a very inefficient tune on there before she got it. And bfife is right, she's just trying to push your buttons to make things worse.:notallthere:

[Kwikkordead]

Bringing this thread up again.
I'm still interested in something like this for my truck.

[Kwikkordead]

Bumping this back up.
I am still interested in doing something with this.
I turned on the fast idle yesterday right after starting the engine and it really billowed a lot of fuel smoke.
I don't know why this new engine is acting like this, the old one even when it was knocking and had a lot of miles on it, didn't do this.:hmmm:

[cleatus12r]

Dan,

I'll talk to him about this since I sit right across the desk from him now.

I will let you know what I come up with.

[Kwikkordead]

Thanks Cody.
I'll wait for your reply.

[cleatus12r]

Bill says it's entirely possible to fix those EOT/SOI maps in your programs, Dan. I'll get with Corey today and aquire an RMA# for you so you can go to the website and fill out the return form.

[Kwikkordead]

Bill says it's entirely possible to fix those EOT/SOI maps in your programs, Dan. I'll get with Corey today and aquire an RMA# for you so you can go to the website and fill out the return form.
OK, but I want to remind you guys that it wasn't the tuning.
My old engine didn't smoke like this before I put the new one in.
It really acts to me like they dropped the compression ratio for some reason.
Maybe to combat NOX emissions, just guessing.
I also want to drop the idle a touch on the tunes. Whenever I switch from stock to any other tune the idle speeds up some and I would like to lower it about 50 rpm across the board.

[cleatus12r]

Can do!

[Kwikkordead]

Cody and Bill. You guys moved a lot faster than I thought you would on this! Kudos.
I got the RMA number in the email.
I have a trip planned in three weeks and I don't think that the shipping back and forth will give us enough time.
I will send it back the last week of May. I don't have any towing plans for a while after I get back then and it will allow plenty of time for all.
Thanks for all this and I will definately do this, but for today I have to wait.

[Kwikkordead]

OK, I'm pulling the chip right after this post to box it up and send it to you for a reburn.
Please repost those pictures from Photobucket so that I can review the tuning and tell you what I have in mind.
Also, I still have that RMA number, but have no idea how to use it.

[Kwikkordead]

OK, chip is out.
Also, I'm assuming you just need the chip and not the switch with the wiring harness?

[cleatus12r]

Dan,

You're correct. We don't need the switch.

As for the RMA#, just write it down and throw it in the box with the chip when you send it.

I'll get some more pictures up in a few minutes.

[cleatus12r]

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu132/cleatus12r/Danscoldstart.jpg

The idle could easily be raised a couple hundred RPM in this tune as well.
What program did you want to replace in order to run this one?

For the most part, you could always leave the idle stock and use this tune....it's not going to advance the SOI farther than stock after 1300 RPM or while the oil temperature is above 80*C.

[Kwikkordead]

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu132/cleatus12r/Danscoldstart.jpg

The idle could easily be raised a couple hundred RPM in this tune as well.
What program did you want to replace in order to run this one?

For the most part, you could always leave the idle stock and use this tune....it's not going to advance the SOI farther than stock after 1300 RPM or while the oil temperature is above 80*C .

That's what I was thinking too. I always keep my foot out of it when it's cold so it would easily be a drivable tune.
.
What I have in mind is to have this tune in the first position, then in position 2 have the basic stock tune, moving the high idle tune to where the "smoke show" tune is now. I can belch a black cloud with the 80 hp tune just as thick as the smoke show whenever I need to.
The only other changes that I would like to make is to lower the idle for all the tunes except the cold start down to 600 or whatever the stock idle speed is, whichever is lower.
I spec'd 650 last time and I don't like it, too fast.
I would like to set the cold start tune to 700.
Do you have any objections to having the values be the same from zero degrees all the way to 60 degrees at both 600 and 800 rpm or would it, in your experience, be too much advance?
I'm just a little nervous that 2 degrees change of advance won't be enough.
.
So the order of tunes that I would like this time around would be:
1=cold start, 700 rpm
2=stock, 600 rpm
3=25hp tow, 600 rpm
4=45hp tow, 600 rpm
5=80hp driver, 600 rpm
6=1100 rpm high idle with no cold start SOI.

[cleatus12r]

No problem, Dan. I was simply posting a picture to give you a general idea. I think that we can comfortably get away with 4 degrees....any more than that, and I'd rather live-tune just to make sure it's not too much.

As for the idle speed....no sweat! :cool:

[Kwikkordead]

No problem, Dan. I was simply posting a picture to give you a general idea. I think that we can comfortably get away with 4 degrees....any more than that, and I'd rather live-tune just to make sure it's not too much.

As for the idle speed....no sweat! :cool:

OK, I'll get the chip mailed off today.
Thank you very much.

[Kwikkordead]

I've been digging around the website for a long time now and cannot find the address to send the chip to.

[cleatus12r]

754 Michael Drive
Winder, GA 30680

[Kwikkordead]

Chip is on the way via USPS.
I need it back by August 2, 2010.
As far as you mentioning the 4 degree advance limit in the previous post, I'll defer to your judgement.

[cleatus12r]

The chip is on my desk. Nice packaging job by the way. You just knew I missed the smell of an automotive repair shop, didn't you?

I'll get these tunes "fixed" for you and have it sent back out ASAP.

[Kwikkordead]

The chip is on my desk. Nice packaging job by the way. You just knew I missed the smell of an automotive repair shop, didn't you?

I'll get these tunes "fixed" for you and have it sent back out ASAP.
Thanks. Glad you liked the towels. :D
If it's not too late, call me at work and I'll give you a CC number for some two day shipping.
206-524-3366
Ask for Dan.

[cleatus12r]

Oops. It's already out the door, man.

:)

[Kwikkordead]

Not a problem.
When you get some time, could you please post a map of the timing so I can print it out for future reference, please.

[cleatus12r]

The idle speed was set at 700 RPM per your request.
Blue is stock, black is your cold start program. (You have to forgive MS Paint for screwing up the colors.....)

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu132/cleatus12r/DansEOT-SOI.jpg

[Kwikkordead]

The idle speed was set at 700 RPM per your request.
Blue is stock, black is your cold start program. (You have to forgive MS Paint for screwing up the colors.....)



MAP looks good, thank you for posting it.
I've printed out the picture to save for future reference.
The other driving tunes, idle was set at 600, right?

[cleatus12r]

MAP looks good, thank you for posting it.
I've printed out the picture to save for future reference.
The other driving tunes, idle was set at 600, right?

Yes they were! Well, all except the high idle and this one..... ;)

[Kwikkordead]

Yes they were! Well, all except the high idle and this one..... ;)

OK, good.
You didn't mention that in your previous post so I had to ask, apologies. ;)

Looking very forward to running with the new tunes!!!

[Kwikkordead]

Got the chip in and installed.
Everything is working as advertised.
Love the 600 rpm.
But I think that my request for 700 rpm on the cold start tune ended up in position 2.
What I get in the morning is for position 1-stock idle speed and no smoke.
Position 2-700 rpm and a lot of smoke.
Everything else is perfect.
I'm driving to Yellowstone in two weeks for vacation, so I'll save this for after we get back.

[cleatus12r]

That's strange. Looking at the files, they are correct. Here is a screenshot of the idle speed between the cold start (black), the stock (red), and your 40T (blue).

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu132/cleatus12r/dansidle.jpg

[Kwikkordead]

When I get a moment, I'll make a short video and post it to Youtube.
Definately higher idle speed on postion 2

[cleatus12r]

I certainly don't have an issue with any concerns. I will be more than happy to get you set up again with this.

[Kwikkordead]

I certainly don't have an issue with any concerns. I will be more than happy to get you set up again with this.

I never doubted that, Cody.
I just wanted to post the video, it's very helpful in diagnosing, I think.

YouTube - IdleSpeed.MOV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y68VO4h1Fb4)

[cleatus12r]

That is very interesting, Dan.

I will dive deeper into this so that this issue can be resolved in a timely manner. In fact, I will likely send you a replacement chip and a return shipping label by Thursday morning.

Cody

[Kwikkordead]

That's over and above Cody.

[cleatus12r]

No, it's the right thing to do. I haven't found any problems, but I have rewritten the stock and cold start calibrations to make sure there are no binary problems with them.

Dan,

USPS will get it to you faster.......can you send a PM with your address?

[Kwikkordead]

No, it's the right thing to do. I haven't found any problems, but I have rewritten the stock and cold start calibrations to make sure there are no binary problems with them.

Dan,

USPS will get it to you faster.......can you send a PM with your address?
OK, I sent you a PM.
Also....
The cold start tune is the way to go for smoke control! :thumbs up yellow:
Absolutely no smoke at all immediately after cold start up (there's always that first puff, but then that's it) and that is with cold glow plugs.
Also there is almost no discernable difference the way the engine sounds.
Diesel sound doesn't change but maybe 1%.

[Kwikkordead]

Cody, the box arrived today.
Thank you for going above and beyond the call of duty.
Truck is at home today, so tomorrow I will bring it in, get the chip installed and get the old one sent back.
Once again, thank you. :thumbs up yellow:

[Kwikkordead]

Cody, title says it all, the new chip is installed and every tune is just right.
I'll get the old one mailed back ASAP.
Once again thank you for doing this.

[cleatus12r]

Good deal. Thanks for letting me know how it worked out!

Kind of weird though.....
For some reason lately, I've been running into binary issues on this computer. I pretty much restart it every day just because of that and it seems to have made a difference.

[Kwikkordead]

Finally got the chip mailed back in the same box you sent it to me.
I didn't get it mailed until Saturday via USPS.

[cleatus12r]

That's ok. It showed up today.

:cool: