Ford's on Top!

[Jackpine]

Am I the only one who is happy that Ford seems to be weathering this financial storm better than Brand X and Brand Y? I was also interested to see an article on the internet that said sales of the F150 were down due to the downturn in the home building market (contractors like these vehicles, it seems) and that they expect sales to pick up if the housing market ever recovers.

But, all this goes for naught if the Senators that are trying to block assistance to the Big 3 have their way. In part, it seems these Southern gentlemen of the Republican persuasion have a big interest in seeing some foreign owned car makers, who have plants in their states, succeed. Is this truly what it means to be "patriotic", or "American"? :notallthere:

These guys clearly don't have the "big picture" in mind. Bailout Wall Street, pump more billions into Iraq to support Halliburton, but forget the "working American" (as long as he's not "Southern"). :bsflag:

We Ford owners DO have a voice! You might consider letting your Congressman hear from you. :stormcloud:

OK, now I can get off my :soapbox:

- Jack

[ChuckD]

Ford got smart and sold off some of the brands that is had prior to the big down turn. Honda is out of F1 for a savings of 600 mil a year. It was the unions that braught them down. I mean why pay a person $32 an hour to sit and do nothing.

[johnnyd]

We (home builder) had 5 Fords and just recently sold the work horse of the bunch, 02' F250 v10 Lariat loaded with a 10' Western plow set up for 13k. It only had 68k on it. 3 Heritage models, a 02 and two 04's which now must go. We'll keep the E250.

Hopefully things will turn around and we can go back to supporting our local Ford store.

But yes, I too am happy to hear Ford is weathering the storm.

[Power Hungry]

It still annoys the heck out of me that major corporations can go to the government with their hands out and get aid, meanwhile people are losing their homes because they've been laid off by the same bailed out institutions and can't pay the mortgage.

There is something seriously wrong with the financial management of this country, and it doesn't matter who is President, who is in the Senate or who is in Congress. Personal agendas are everywhere and those with power and access use it and abuse it to further their own interests.

I, too, will get of the soapbox now.


Glad Ford looks to be surviving. With the new powertrain lineups for 2010, they'll hopefully maintain their foothold.

[Corey Cohron RIP]

Where's Ross Perot when you need him? :2thumbs:

Damn, I'm old. :oldlady: :hehe:

[Northern Supercrew]

i was watching the news up here today and if the big 3 go down...that equates into 582,000 canadian jobs too. i couldn't imagine how many more U.S. jobs. Ford seems to have a good business plan for the future...hopefully the new Ecoboost engine coming around '10 will be a hit.

[Jackpine]

Bill, maybe the answer is that we DON'T get off the soapbox.

Deep down inside, I DO think our elected officials listen to us IF we make enough noise. (As Janet is fond of quoting, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease").

The trouble is, this whole financial mess is so interrelated. You can't have manufacturing without banks. Workers ARE entitled to decent wages, based on their skills and knowledge and unions have helped them achieve that. Government HAS to subsidize promising technology, or it never advances past the "promise" stage.

Possibly, just possibly, we in America have become too used to an inflated standard of living. Should we all accept the "China model"? What is it, about $300/month and NO benefits?

Really, we simply (and it's not so simple) need to learn how to compete/coexist in a global economy. And, it's getting more and more global every day.

I, for one, appreciate your business model, which seems to be: "Give value to our customers, who are our friends".

I don't think I'm alone in my appreciation.

- Jack :margarita: :margarita: :margarita:

[Power Hungry]

I, for one, appreciate your business model, which seems to be: "Give value to our customers, who are our friends".

I don't think I'm alone in my appreciation.

- Jack :margarita: :margarita: :margarita:

I'll drink to that! :shots: :2thumbs:

[johnnyd]

Bill, maybe the answer is that we DON'T get off the soapbox.

Deep down inside, I DO think our elected officials listen to us IF we make enough noise. (As Janet is fond of quoting, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease").

The trouble is, this whole financial mess is so interrelated. You can't have manufacturing without banks. Workers ARE entitled to decent wages, based on their skills and knowledge and unions have helped them achieve that. Government HAS to subsidize promising technology, or it never advances past the "promise" stage.

Possibly, just possibly, we in America have become too used to an inflated standard of living. Should we all accept the "China model"? What is it, about $300/month and NO benefits?

Really, we simply (and it's not so simple) need to learn how to compete/coexist in a global economy. And, it's getting more and more global every day.

I, for one, appreciate your business model, which seems to be: "Give value to our customers, who are our friends".

I don't think I'm alone in my appreciation.

- Jack :margarita: :margarita: :margarita:

Unions have helped them get a descent wage for their skills? Are you serious? Help me understand the skills that they brought to the table when they where hired in and the value of those skills. In what ways did these skills help the company? :confused:

[Jackpine]

Unions have helped them get a descent wage for their skills? Are you serious? Help me understand the skills that they brought to the table when they where hired in and the value of those skills. In what ways did these skills help the company? :confused:

Ah - I don't think the auto companies hire workers that are proficient only in camel driving or cotton picking and who can't learn more. Somehow, I expect they want workers that know something about machining, assembly, finishing, electrical work, etc. These are the skills I was talking about. Perhaps the company even taught them those skills - far enough. Airlines train their pilots to fly the company's equipment. Doctors get continuation training. Mechanics get OJT. Same concept.

Once trained, as a mechanic, assembly line technician, pilot, doctor, lawyer, soldier, etc., you should be paid for what you bring to the job. IF not, well then, let ANYBODY do those jobs. Want to let Bubba, in East Overall Patches, MS, come in off the farm and jump into the pilot's seat for your next airline trip?

So, is everyone overpaid? Perhaps. Are you willing to take a pay cut?

Henry Ford shocked the auto industry when he started paying his workers $5+ an hour. Suddenly, they could afford to buy the cars they made. Everyone warned that would be the death of the auto industry. Did it happen? Shouldn't auto workers be able to afford to buy cars?

- Jack

[johnnyd]

I agree, once trained (any profession really) they should be paid for thier skills. All of the jobs you mentioned (w/one exception) require additional training/schooling other than a high school diploma and most of the time it's on their dime. Your not comparing apples to apples here.

My brother is a pilot for Delta Connection. Delta did give him some training once he was hired. Of course it ran him about 75k in student loans, several hundreds of hours in flight time, book training, instructing, and many extra expensive hours in the flight S.I.M.S. to get to that point. He is currently flying a CRJ 700. He has been flying for Delta for over a year now as 1st Officer. How much do you think he makes? Try in the low 40's. I don't think any of us have to worry about "Bubba comin' in off the farm and jumpin' in the pilot seat ".:hehe:

What certifications are the UAW's requiring applicants to have? Good high school GPA's and SAT scores? Having a family member already working there? Big deal!! The average wage for them is what, 27 bucks an hour? That's over 50k annually. Doing what, working an assembly line.

I'm in the home building business and saw change back in late 05 (bought my truck in July 05, things were great :2thumbs:). Then, all of a sudden, business dropped off and I mean dropped off. We rode it out for 06' tightening things up and selling off inventory. In 07' we realized we needed to make cuts asap. Was I willing to take a pay cut? You betcha'! It's not always about now but the future, I want the company to survive. I took a 10% cut in early 07' and have not received a bonus or a raise since. Business is bad. Concessions need to be made. If your not willing to roll with the times then I suggest you find another job. When the times improve and the company regains it's profitability margins people will be rewarded with pay increases and maybe even a bonus. Until then......survival mode.

Anyways, I think the era of the UAW needs to be in the history books.

John

[Jackpine]

Hi John -

I suspect we aren't too far apart on this at all. I too, have very little use for unions in these times.

I remember once when I was in the Air Force, I was appointed to investigate a union grievance in the Motor Pool (civilian workers). I found the grievance was one of several that had been filed by the Shop Steward (an apprentice mechanic) on behalf of himself. He felt he was not being paid at the appropriate level. Interestingly, the only one on his side was the Union Representative. Everyone else in the shop told me he was a lazy sh*t who was out sick all the time, or if he was there, he was always engaged in "union business". So, I put all that in my report (but was never told what happened later).

I also agree with you that the feeder airline pilots don't make much at all. Our oldest son is a 1st officer with United, and he's seen his pay cut a lot. Happily, for the next year or so, he seems to be back on full time with the Navy Reserve, and he's happier there.

And, I'm not totally opposed to pay cuts either, as long as they're across the board and effect EVERYONE, including management, by the same percentage (with no hidden perks for the corner office folks). Yes, if a company has to do that to survive, then everyone should just be happy to be working.

Lee Iacocca showed how to save a company without costing the taxpayers a dime. In fact, the Government MADE money by guaranteeing Chrysler's loans. Wish we had more leaders like him.

Peace brother. Hope the building industry turns around soon for you!

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

Men like Lee Iacocca, Ross Perot, and even Sam Walton (I'll catch crap for that last one, I'm sure) knew how to run a business.

The problem is when government gets in the way of... or gets involved in... private business. Unions are not business, they are government. Not Oval Office type of government mind you, but they are a governing body trying to control private business through influence and corporations have no choice but to yield to their pressure for fear of strikes. Unfortunately, it's always the consumer that suffers.

In a free enterprise system, a company should be able to hire or fire who they want and pay each person based on a negotiated amount at the time of hiring. If an employee doesn't like the wages, benefits, or anything else about the job, then they are free to quit. Where unions should be involved is ensuring a safe workplace that is free of harassment and prejudice, not making sure that Joe the Plumber is making more that Joe the Cop.

Capitol Hill is just another Union of sorts. There is a serious problem when lawmakers get big, fat paychecks and cushy benefits for signing a couple papers a year when Rescue Services, Police Officers and even Military Personnel get crap for risking their lives. Cap the Politician's salary to 75k a year (which is still twice what a teacher makes) and you'll quickly find that the only people who want to be politicians are people who really want to make a difference in the way our government is run.

I could go on and on but complaining about the government is a waste of breath at this point, and I have better things to do.

[johnnyd]

Hi John -

I suspect we aren't too far apart on this at all. I too, have very little use for unions in these times.

I remember once when I was in the Air Force, I was appointed to investigate a union grievance in the Motor Pool (civilian workers). I found the grievance was one of several that had been filed by the Shop Steward (an apprentice mechanic) on behalf of himself. He felt he was not being paid at the appropriate level. Interestingly, the only one on his side was the Union Representative. Everyone else in the shop told me he was a lazy sh*t who was out sick all the time, or if he was there, he was always engaged in "union business". So, I put all that in my report (but was never told what happened later).

I also agree with you that the feeder airline pilots don't make much at all. Our oldest son is a 1st officer with United, and he's seen his pay cut a lot. Happily, for the next year or so, he seems to be back on full time with the Navy Reserve, and he's happier there.

And, I'm not totally opposed to pay cuts either, as long as they're across the board and effect EVERYONE, including management, by the same percentage (with no hidden perks for the corner office folks). Yes, if a company has to do that to survive, then everyone should just be happy to be working.

Lee Iacocca showed how to save a company without costing the taxpayers a dime. In fact, the Government MADE money by guaranteeing Chrysler's loans. Wish we had more leaders like him.

Peace brother. Hope the building industry turns around soon for you!

- Jack

Yeah, I'd say we have some similar view points too.

Happy Holidays and thanks :xmashappy:

Men like Lee Iacocca, Ross Perot, and even Sam Walton (I'll catch crap for that last one, I'm sure) knew how to run a business.

The problem is when government gets in the way of... or gets involved in... private business. Unions are not business, they are government. Not Oval Office type of government mind you, but they are a governing body trying to control private business through influence and corporations have no choice but to yield to their pressure for fear of strikes. Unfortunately, it's always the consumer that suffers.

In a free enterprise system, a company should be able to hire or fire who they want and pay each person based on a negotiated amount at the time of hiring. If an employee doesn't like the wages, benefits, or anything else about the job, then they are free to quit. Where unions should be involved is ensuring a safe workplace that is free of harassment and prejudice, not making sure that Joe the Plumber is making more that Joe the Cop.

Capitol Hill is just another Union of sorts. There is a serious problem when lawmakers get big, fat paychecks and cushy benefits for signing a couple papers a year when Rescue Services, Police Officers and even Military Personnel get crap for risking their lives. Cap the Politician's salary to 75k a year (which is still twice what a teacher makes) and you'll quickly find that the only people who want to be politicians are people who really want to make a difference in the way our government is run.

I could go on and on but complaining about the government is a waste of breath at this point, and I have better things to do.

I couldn't agree more, well spoken (or written rather) :2thumbs:

[88Racing]

Okay guys don't bash the unions to hard now. Cause believe it or not you are a part of one The UNITED States of America. Unions get their constitutions from the constitution. Read the book The Jungle, it's about industrial revolution and how the common working man and immigrants got $hit on. Most of the unions today are involved with skills and these people go through the ranks from the ground up. I'll agree their are lazy bastards in the unions who don't deserve to work. The RATS in this country and the white collar workers sure like to take it out on them. Yes there are other ways for people to be trained to do a job. But it isn't the workers fault all the time that they are getting paid for what they do. Try going after the leaders of these organizations for once for they are the ones making the calls and not the worker. The workers can put there input in on their wages but in the end suits sit across the table from one another, negociate the contracts. Yes it will be voted on by the workers but not all the time the leaders are forth comming about the concesions in the contracts.

The auto mfg's are trouble primarely due to the fact that they are trying to buy their stock back from retirement accounts. Can you remember Enron same thing happening all over again just different companies. So which suits did this. The same three that show up to DC in three different corperate jets.

Lars

[Sburn]

First, I have to say that I've been on both sides of the table when it comes to laying people off. I've had to do that to people and I've had it done to me. I'm not happy to see Detroit's trouble hit so many so hard.

I see one of the problems that Detroit has is that they are now in a world where building cars has become a commodity. Want to know what the current market value of bolting wheels on cars all day in the USA is? Ask the guy down at your local Goodyear how much he makes per hour. It's probably 1/3 or 1/2 of what Detroit pays for the same job. And there's somebody on the other side of the world who do it and be very, very happy for 10% of that.

I feel bad that somebody once thought that they could buy a house, send the kids to school, get a really nice medical package and retirement for doing the identical job the Goodyear guy does for double or triple that rate. I hate to use the word, "unsustainable", but that way of doing business in the USA is now officially over and never to return.

In world of commodity products and labor, there's always going to be somebody who can undercut on price due to their location, overhead, no benefits, lax environmental standards, etc...etc...

The way to compete in that scenario is to do either do something that nobody else does or to do what everybody else does, but do it faster, with higher quality, and with quicker and better service. And if we don't find a way to do it, somebody in Bangalore or Beijing -- who really really wants a refrigerator and a TV set like we have, will do it first.

"Every morning in Africa, a gazelle awakens. He has only one thought on his mind: To be able to run faster than the fastest lion. If he cannot, then he will be eaten.

Every morning in Africa a lion awakens. He has only one thought on his mind: To be able to run faster than the slowest gazelle. If he cannot, he will die of hunger.

Whether you choose to be a gazelle or a lion is of no consequence. It is enough to know that with the rising of the sun, you must run. And you must run faster than you did yesterday or you will die. This is the race of life."