0-60 times super slow
 

So I just recently regeared my truck from 3.73's to 4.56's. I have 93 octane performance custom tune, 35'' tires, gotts mod and the gears, and a 4'' rancho lift.

My times before regearing were 10 seconds flat. After getting the gears, and breaking them in, my first go at really beating on it was 9.1 seconds. That was about a week ago. Today, I couldn't even get the wheels to chirp full throttle and the time has gone up to around 9.6-9.8 seconds.

Something doesn't seem right. With that being said, when I regeared a vibration started to occur around 67MPH, I was told it was probably my torque converter and I never noticed it before because it would have needed to go faster to cause it. Ok. On top of that, occasionally before the gearing I would notice the tranny seemed to be slipping. I'd be flooring it sitting at around 4.7K RPM and not really going any faster until it would kick up a gear. This was very infrequent and I haven't noticed a significant symptom like that again in a while.

Is it possible my tranny is just slipping like mad and I'm losing all my power there? Could it be my torque converter? My tranny just doing normal flat cruising at 45-65 sits at around 155-165 depending on ambient temps (85-95 degrees now). Any insight and help would really be appreciated. I'd like to know if taking it in to get the tranny looked at is worth it.

Vibration after a re-gear is probably driveline related. It was there after you added the lift, but the increased driveline speed aggravated it. This simply could be cured with some wedges that correct pinion angle. The angle of the driveling coming out of the transmission needs to be the same as is is going into the rear differential so the u-joint's can work in unison.

Anther thing to note is the front driveline, from the factory the yokes come out of phase. This means they are 90* off from each other - not a problem until you add a lift and change the driveline angles. This vibration will only present itself in 4X4.

For the lack of power I would start with the basics. Check and make sure the MAF sensor is clean, fuel filter is not plugged and air filter condition.

Any codes present?

No codes present at this time. Just changed air filter. I'll check out the MAS sensor. How difficult is it to check out the fuel filter and how will I know if it is or isn't clogged? :hmmm:

No vibrations while using 4x4. The guy I am dealing with that did my gears swears it's the torque converter and not pinion angle. I actually specifically asked him whether it was or wasn't pinion angle when I experienced it and he feels that it's a different kind of vibration. He was actually rather insulted I would question him on it and cited his 20+ years of experience doing gearing and the like. . .:notallthere::rolleyes:

I've been rather frustrated with this whole gearing process and him because it seems in the few short days I've been trying to learn about it, I've learned more about this than he seems to know or is willing to accept. Pinion angle definitely seems to be the issue at this time, or poor backlash setting or preload. . .we'll see what happens when he takes the gears out to replace them cause they also whined when I got them installed, and still do whine. He said he wouldn't replace them until 1000 miles on my first oil change stating Yukon doesn't warranty them until then. :cursin:

I love my truck too much to see her go through all this stuff. /sigh It's killing me.:cry-blow::cry-blow:

On second thought it won't even matter. I'm just going to replace the fuel filter. I've got 74k miles and I doubt if it's ever been changed. I'm also going to clean the throttle body whilst I'm at the maf sensor. Anything else that you can or anyone else can think of that would cause a severe drag on performance?

Uhh...if they whined they were not setup correctly. Yukon is going to laugh when they hear this.

I doubt this has anything to do with your vibration, but its not right. Its only going to get worse and no amount of setup is going to fix a improperly setup differential after the gears wear incorrectly.

With all due respect, Dave you aren't telling me anything I don't know. Lol That's why I'm so frustrated with the shop. If it isn't right when I bring it back and they install a new set or try and refuse it there will be issues. I'm trying to give them their chance to save face. I really don't like being a jerk. If I'm forced to however I will.

On the issue of power, do you think there are any other issues I could hav causing power loss if after. Clean the Mas and replace the fuel filter along with cleaning the throttle body while I'm at it.

I would start with the basics and move on from there, your on the right track.

Back in late '09 from the Mad Doctor himself:

"Oh... and my Expy will beat most of the F-150s in the area. I haven't lost against one yet. The 3.31 gearing actually seems to help the engine produce more torque by increasing load and letting the engine pull harder. I've seen trucks go with shorter gears and actually lose performance because of load loss on the engine. Go figure... "

Man that would be a real ball breaker if that was my issue!

Also thanks a lot for the replies you guys. I love this forum and everyone in it!

Thanks will do. It'll be my first time doing the filter. Is it a pain? Looked at some videos didn't seem to be too bad aside from taking off the fuel line pressure by turning off some switch in the fuse box. I'm trying to teach myself mechanic stuff so I no longer have to depend on people I don't trust. What do you think about spark plugs? Another thing I think may have been neglected. Not sure if I've said but my trucks got 75k miles. Could spark plugs cause power issues? Also I've heard of horror stories of removing spark plugs and snapping stuff...I've been less than excited to do those but think its probably pretty due.

I never did much aside from change my oil until recently did my own front brakes was proud of myself. Haha. I'm 25 never worked on cars. Feels like something a real man should do. So here I am trying to be a "real man". :hehe:

Here are some tips for the fuel filter...

1. Pick where you're gonna do it and park the truck. Let it sit with the key out of the ignition for at least an hour. It'll give the fuel a chance to lose pressure. When you are picking a place to do it, go where you won't mind a bit of fuel being sprayed. It WILL be at least a partially pressurized system when you break the seal on it.

2. Wear safety glasses. Not sure if this is an issue for you but my dad is really bad about it. I was holding a pair out to him because he kept refusing. Then when he got the fuel disconnected it sprayed right in his face. He hates it when I say "I told ya so"

3. It's easy if you do your reading ahead of time.

If the filter has never been changed I'm surprised that the truck is still running.

Thanks for the pro tips ill definitely take heed. Wearing safety glasses is something I never do I will this time around.

You'd think all of this stuff would be bad news for me but with my performance issues I'm using I'm excited to see what difference it makes when I do some well need maintanence on it.

PS: I got this truck only 13ish k miles ago, that's why all the unknown.

Replaced fuel filter, cleaned MAF sensor, and throttle body. Times just as bad although it seems to have helped gas milage with the little driving I did.

Perhaps the gearing is too steep and that's what caused it? I'm thinking of dropping to 4.10 gears.

Id just like my truck to be in the 8 second 0-60 range. I don't think that's too terribly much to ask...

To get into the 8's you're looking at forced induction (and smaller tires).

Once you go with forced induction, don't plan on using your truck anymore (i.e. the truck becomes a fuel-eating toy).

Forced induction? I'm confused. I see people with 3.73 and 35'' tires doing 7.5's and 8's. Are they all full of it?

I guess what I really mean to say is, I was expecting that my 0-60 time would be better when I put in 4.56 gearing. Instead it literally hasn't changed at all. And to add insult to injury, my millage suffers slightly as well. So, did I waste 1300? What is everyone talking about saying that they get better performance or their low end grunt back by regearing.

Don't get me wrong, my 0-60 time is not really a big deal. It's more just something to help me gauge how my truck is doing power wise and how it stacks up compared to other trucks like and unlike my build.

As it stands, it doesn't seem to stack up well against other like builds, so that makes me think something is wrong.

With my tranny temps siting at 16X degrees and perhaps original spark plugs, and maybe even a torque converter issue, I'm praying that is the issue.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you at this time that forced induction would be required to get the f150 to the 8's 0-60. Especially considering I've hit 9.1 seconds once.

I appreciate the input, perhaps you could explain to me a bit more on why you feel forced induction would really be needed to get me to where I want my truck to be. Not trying to be a sarcastic jerk, just genuinely curious.

Thanks again for your time and anyone else who may have an idea as to whats going on with my truck. :thumbs up yellow:

Also, someone suggest I obtain a datalog from my truck, I assume using my gryphon, insinuating that it may help in diagnosing a potential problem. Does anyone know about that? Perhaps someone could enlighten me on how to get it, how to use it, where to post it, etc...Thanks

This one is based on calculations since I don't (and don't know anyone that does) own an 04-08 F150.

All else being equal, you're looking at an additional 18.5-22 HP above and beyond what you have now just to get into the 8.9xx range. Technically speaking, that means that you have to make more torque at the same RPM range in which you would normally be operating during those 9 seconds. I would say that you'd be VERY hard pressed to get that much power out of simple bolt-on parts. 0-60 times are largely based on how quickly the engine gets to maximum horsepower so things like head porting, cams, etc., aren't going to help you at all in that department. Sure, they MIGHT squeak out a COUPLE extra horsepower, but you won't see that until the 1-2 upshift point.......long past the time that it does any good for your 0-60 times.

See the link in my sig pic. Datalogging instructions for the monochrome gryphons.


1. Do not use the programmer. It is full of chit. Get your tire size dialed in and use a stopwatch. Any result from the programmer's "performance test" will be incorrect. I'm not sure why they are wrong but comparing to an official drag strip the 1/4 mile times are wrong. Also, I could make my truck have a 5 second 0-60 by regearing and not entering it into the tune. If you were to reprogram your truck and not change to the correct gearing the speedo would read faster, the 0-60 would improve dramatically as a consequence from an incorrect reading.

2. Based on what I've been seeing over the years the 4.56 gears are too low for regular driving. For 35" tires, most people go to the 4.10s unless they are doing a bunch of towing. Like the quote from Bill that Cody included, having the gears too low keeps the PCM from properly computing engine load. Your gearing is fitting for 37+ inch tires. I also would be happy that the mileage hasn't taken a nose dive. IMO, if you are going to be throwing on huge tires and lower gearing, you have to pay to play. You won't be improving mileage by making your truck less efficient at delivering power to the ground.

3. You are also battling physics, something that does not lose. By increasing tire size you increase the rotational inertia of the tires, making it harder to accelerate. You are also increasing the mass, which compounds the inertia. The lift probably doesn't help because if the truck rears back on acceleration, that is wasting energy.

Forced induction effectively gives you more power at a given RPM. Cody nailed it with his last post. In a 0-60 you need to generate as much power as quickly as possible.

So, I'm getting that you feel 10 seconds is appropriate. Again, I don't mind 10 seconds, if I had been pulling 11 before the gear change. I'm just confused that there seems to have been no tangible improvement other than that for my engine and transmission wear. That lack of change in time makes me think something is wrong.

So, I'll ask this question directly: Do you feel it is normal to not see an improvement in 0-60 times when someone gears to 4.56 from 3.73 or lower?

I see. Thanks for the write up, longshot. I guess what I'll do since the gears are going to have to be replaced anyways (they're whinning) is go down to 4.10 since I don't tow much and I do a lot of highway driving. That'll bring it to its original powerband.

Maybe it'll give me better results. I'm also going to have the spark plugs replaced since I doubt they've ever been done. I'm seeing a huge gain from doIng the fuel filter and cleaning the maf sensor. Also have the transmission serviced.

Thanks for the help.

Are the data logging for the monochrome the same for the gryphon cs?

Look online for a gear chart. There are tons of them floating around. You compare tire size with gear ratio and inside the matrix is RPM. I think there is also a gear ratio calculator here on either the PHP website or the PHP forum. I just went through the Pegasus program (for my programmer), which has a gear ratio calculator. Using 235/70-17 as your stock tire size and 315/75-17 (approx. 35" diameter), the 4.10 would bring you similar to the 3.55 stock ratio. 4.46 would be ideal to get you to a 3.73 ratio but the next closest gear option would be the 4.56.

The CS/CTS do not have the datalogging. I was thinking you had the MC gryphon for some reason. :doh:

Lol, no big deal on the MC thing, I kinda figured there wasn't datalog, I've gone through all the menus pretty thoroughly.

Well, I guess I'm in the right area for gearing if thats the case with my 4.56's considering I had the 3.73's to begin with stock.

I just called a couple places to do my spark plugs (I really don't have the time to deal with broken spark plugs) and these dealerships around me are out of their damn minds. . .One quoted me 360 something plus 115 if they broke one or more plugs, the other was $600!!!(Didn't even ask about broken plugs):yikes2::yikes2::yikes2:

I may end up having to find time if I want them done, not sure I can stomach paying that much for a spark plug change. . .

I just pored a can of Seafoam into my gas tank to clean up my jets a bit, add that to the list of things I've done to get this truck running as well as it can.

Aren't you also a member on F150online? Just ask if you can borrow somebody's tool set. I'd also ask local auto parts stores to see if they'll rent them. I've seen some write-ups where they spent a bunch of time and got them out carefully. Spark plugs are relatively easy...can't say they are easy because I built a bike that just about beats all on ease. :hehe:

Run techron or chemtool, they contain solvents like toluene and xylene that chemically break down carbon deposits more effectively. Seafoam does not, the only solvent it has is naptha (25-35%). The rest is pale oil for lubrication (40-60%) and 10-20% isopropyl alcohol to draw out water.

Lol, bikes suck! No doubt. Guess I screwed the pouch. A buddy told me the seafoam stuff was good, I had heard it en passe occasionally as well, so I figured what the hell. I'll pick some of the techron or chemtool up tomorrow and run that next tank. Thanks for the protip, Longshot.

My best friend works at my local ford dealership. He's got a tech there that may be able to hook me up, so I'm holding off until I hear from him.

I've always liked bikes. This has been my latest project.
http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMG_2488.jpg
Gas mileage isn't even worth calculating because it uses so little. It'll be my grocery getter and bank fishing transport this summer. Might also be doing in town commuting after a regear. It has plenty of acceleration just not enough top end speed to keep up with traffic.

Ok, then I would definitely hold off until you hear from them.

Now when I said I hate bikes I ment normal bikes. What you have there sir is awesome! Looks like a barrel of monkeys no doubt.

Spark plug change does make a difference. Go ahead and get the Granatelli COP Connectors upgrade while your at it. ($100)
They work awesome with tune.
Make sure you are running 93 and are programmed for it, HUGE difference over 87!

I have the lisle 65600 tool needed for the plugs. 4 of mine broke, really not a bad job as long as your rear one does not break.

Not sure what my 0-60mph is, only have distances on my time stamps from the tracks. I should be pretty close to the 8.5-9.0 second range with my mods I am guessing...

Also 4.56 gears WAY to high unless you tow all of the time. Just a lift and bigger tires, 4.10s. Also seems like your time stamp is pretty important. I know a lift and big tires look good, but if its speed you want, you will have to ditch 'em

Did a test this morning on my way to work and did 8.9 seconds. It was 71 degrees engine was still cool and transmission was only 105 degrees. Do you think the operating temps of my truck could cause a power loss for some reason?

I look into the connections you mentioned for sure. Could you give me some more information on it? What exactly makes it worth the extra $100? What does it do exactly?

My speed isn't important to me nor is the off the line speed contrary to what it may seem according to my posts. I'm using the 0-60 time as a baseline to measure the overall performance of my truck and how it compares to like build trucks. I merely want my truck to operate at its maximum capibility and it seems like its not. So I'm simply trying to figure it out. =)

On top of the cold test I did this morning, I also did an operating temperature test just before getting in to work, same temp outside, it ran a 9.7 second 0-60. Seems like perhaps I am losing some power once it reaches operating temps. What could cause that if that were the case?

Item#:
28-1812S
Notes:

Manufacturer Info:
Granatelli
DESCRIPTION:

LFP HIGH OUTPUT Coil On Plug Connectors (3 Valve)
The LFP High Output solid stainless connector cables Coil-on-Plug connectors features a 3/16 solid stainless steel core, 500 degree Silicone Spark Plug Boots and an unheard of -0- Ohm resistance per foot. This patent pending technology has less RFi/Emi interference than O.E. and allows full coil power to reach the spark plugs. In house and independent Dyno-tests and long term road tests have shown various horsepower increases, improved acceleration and smoother idle that results in an overall better performing vehicle. The kit provides a custom tailored fit and is easily installed in less than 1 hour with basic hand tools.

Tested & Proven on our personal Mustangs for over 13 Months
Fits 2004-2007 3 Valve Modular Motors
Direct OEM replacement, won't void your factory warranty
Improves mileage and throttle response
Patented* design feature improves spark, 0 ohms of resistance, no radio interference
Includes all necessary hardware

What exactly are your "normal" operating temps?

Of course you will run better when its cooler outside and the engine is cooler, but it shouldn't net almost a whole second difference... something is definitely up

Just updated to 3.2 on my cs to get the datalog feature in the hopes I can solve my sluggish 0-60 speeds. Since I last posted nothing has changed with the dog slow times, so I'm really hoping this datalog will help them help me diagnose my trucks issues.

Can anyone use this information to help me? Thanks for the help sorry for the lack of posts, just nothing had changed so I figured Id wait until I did something to help. I'm not sure how to even use it it's updating while I'm at the bar. Thanks for any insight.

This is the absolute first time I've heard of datalogging on the CS/CTS platform. Can you provide a list of monitoring options, how many can be monitored at a time, how you are able to view them and if you are able to convert them to a spread sheet type format like excel?

I could be wrong, but I received an email about it today. This is the email:



Data Logging now available with the new software update for the CS and CTS line of products.


The newest software version for the Edge Products CS and CTS platform is now available through Edge’s Fusion internet update tool! This new version adds amazing new Data Logging features that will allow you to log and graph data so that you can truly understand your vehicle’s performance. The all-new software will also enable an Insight CS and CTS product to control Smarty’s Power-On-Demand feature. You can now adjust the Smarty Power-On-Demand feature with the touch of a button!


DATA LOGGING SOFTWARE

Fine tune your runs on the track, or prolong the life of your tow vehicle by identifying "out of range" parameters. The CS/CTS Data Logging feature can show you crucial data to help you identify the “sweet spots” as well as potential problems with your driving experience. Shaving a few tenths of a second off your race time, or running a few degrees cooler makes all the difference. The data logging feature allows for a comprehensive, accurate picture of the vehicle’s condition, such as temperatures, pressures, speed, and more!

- Store up to 10 unique logs at a time
- Log hours of data
- View and graph logs on your PC using the new MyStyle Software
- View all parameters or pick which ones you want to view

To download the release flyer click here!


Make your Smarty Smarter with the new software update for the Insight CS and CTS products.

CONTROL SMARTY’S POWER-ON-DEMAND FEATURE USING YOUR EDGE INSIGHT!

Your Dodge is tuned with Smarty, but how are you monitoring your vital engine parameters? Tuning your Dodge and not running an Insight monitor is like taking a knife to a gun fight. The Edge Insight beats any analog gauge system or other digital monitors hands down when it comes to features, monitoring, and maintenance. With our new software update, Smarty users can now control their Power-On-Demand from the Insight monitor. You have a lot of money invested in your Dodge and you deserve the best. You deserve Edge!

- Use the Insight to change the Power-On-Demand settings of your Smarty programmer with a touch of a button
- If your truck is tuned by Smarty, simply connect the Insight to your OBDII (diagnostic) port and control the Smarty Power-on-Demand tuning that was loaded into your trucks computer!

To download the release flyer click here!
Down load the full release flyer PDF

Sincerely,

The Edge Team

OTHER NEWS
Follow Us Online

Do you want more real time news from Edge? Become a fan on our Facebook page and check out cool videos on YouTube and Streetfire.

Hope that helps, I have yet to use this update, as it's still in the process (computer went to sleep while I was gone). I'll keep you up to date as I find out more.

The release flyer isn't really more insightful either.

I can confirm that there is a datalog in the CS/CTS with this new update as stated by my email. I'll go for a drive tomorrow and run the datalog, upload it on the computer and see about posting the results so you may see what it can do and maybe give me a hand if you see a problem! :cheesy smile:

That is really cool, I definitely want a list and some pictures now. :cheesy smile:


WARNING TO ANYONE READING THIS, UPDATING FOR THIS NEW FEATURE WILL MOST LIKELY ERASE CUSTOM TUNES!

Gotta make it obvious for people who only skim threads otherwise we'll have another 3.0 catastrophe.

It does delete your custom tunes. I knew it would, but that datalog feature was too tempting to pass up, I hope Bill is able to get my tunes back up and running shortly, I didn't think about it really and just did it.

Any idea if it'll be difficult to get the tunes back? Probably should have waited but thinking before I leap isn't my strong suit sometimes. :hehe:

I'll head out and get the datalog rolling and see about getting the info for you.

Before you crank the truck and go, what are your datalog options?


As far as getting the custom tunes back, you'll probably have to send Bill an email. It'll take a while, just browse through recent threads and you'll see it.

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...X/Datalog2.png

Thats all the info that is logged during the logging. Not sure how I can share the info it received with anyone however, need to look into that.

"Datalog" is the option when starting the log. You can log ten logs. It stops when you either turn the truck off and it powers down or you manually shut it down by selecting the log.

There are no perimeters to set it just choose the perimeters you see in the picture and records them real time. Let me know if you have any other questions I'm gonna tinker with this a bit more. I did a fifteen minute drive with it logging on surface streets and freeway driving speeds max speed of roughly 90MPH give or take a few. One 0-60 in the beginning while the truck was cold, and one 0-60 when I got off the freeway and it was at operating temps.

As far as I can see I cannot share the logs only view them for myself, which I don't really see being all too helpful considering I don't know what to look for, if there is even anything to look at with the info provided.

Are the perimeters provided pertinent to finding potential issues?

That's cool. If you look in the top row you see a slide called "Scale" I'm assuming it is 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and then scaling up with RPM setting Y axis at 5000. Use the scale to bring anything besides RPM into view.

Are you able to get things like timing advancement or % load?

I can deselect engine RPM so it adjusts the scale more appropriately to the rest of the smaller numbers.

As of right now I believe these are the only perimeters that you can see.

Seems kind of useless to my untrained eyes.:cry-blow:

Parameters, just realized I was not spelling that correctly lol.

You should be able to play with settings so that multiple graphs can be compared side by side.

I guess I'll wait around and see what comes of this from smarter tinkerer's than I. Maybe they can figure some things out for me. Because I see literally no real tinkering ability atm. Haha

Try playing with the zoom in the tip line next to the play, fast forward, reverse and whatever the foot prints are. At the moment you are the only one with it.

Tried all of those, not sure what the footprints did to be honest, haha. The "fastforward" buttons just make it go from the beginning to the end and end to beginning. I made it go 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, and 10x speed, removing the RPM helped the scale to show the other information well as it rescaled the graph. You can change the color of each parameter to pretty much whatever you want. If you double click on parameters things happen, I just don't know how to explain it and it doesn't seem to help any.

Let me know if you have anything in specific you'd really like me to do/try I'll do my best to help.

Yep, leave it to Edge to produce a product with no manual...http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/image...eally-lmao.gif

So the zoom doesn't do anything? The reason I keep bringing it up is because the speed basically changes the scale of the X axis so I would expect the alternative (zoom) would change the scale of the Y axis. Don't jump off into complex features without learning the basics first.

If I had known they were going to actually get around to the datalog feature I would have bought a CS. Unfortunately I've never even seen one in person.

For now, just keep playing with settings to figure out what each one changes. If you look in my sig I think I was 17 when I wrote the Gryphon datalog manual and had almost zero experience with trucks, programmers, etc. I had only owned my programmer for a month or two and am by no means "smarter than average" :hehe: