FICM tune for VT365?
 

I have a 2007 4200 with the 300hp VT365. It is studded, has new oil/egr cooler, and a TS MP8. The chassis is under a motorhome and has 5.29 gears.

Would the atlas 40 tune work well on this? Has it been used on a vt365? How would it interface with the MP8?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff,

Welcome! :howdy:

To answer your question... Yes. The FICM tuning works great on the VT365 and provides solid improvements to performance, throttle response, and economy. We see the same gains on the VT engines as we do on the standard Ford 6.0L applications.

I do not have an answer as to how it will work with the TS MP8 as I'm not certain what the MP8 affects in the engine controls. If you could maybe provide some insight as to what it connects to, I might be able to make a semi-educated guess as to what it's doing. In other words, does it connect to the OBD connector, the engine harness, or both? And if connected to the engine harness, which connectors or wires is it connected to?

We also currently are offering ECM tuning for those trucks, if that's something that interests you. Feel free to give us a shout if you'd like some more information. :thumbsup:

Take care.

Hi Bill!! Thanks for the reply!
The TSMP8 is just a fuel pressure box. It plugs into the ICP sensor and that is it. TS claims a 30% hp increase. I can feel an increase while accelerating, but nothing at WOT. Pulling long hills at WOT, I can turn the knob up and down realtime and it doesn't change power, boost or EGT. But you can feel an increase when taking off from a light.

I am interested in ECM tuning as well! My empty weight is ~22Klbs, and loaded I am 30K or so. BUT, I do have 5.29 gears. What kind of gains can I see combining the two (ECM and FICM)? Like I mentioned, I do have studs (and gauges). Can you delete the EGR in the ECM so I can do an EGR delete?

Currently empty at the 22klb area, it is super super slow. I am topping hills at 35mph that my similar weight 8.1 gas gm motorhome will top at 50+. Getting on the freeway is a chore, It takes a solid mile (if not more) to reach 65. Once cruising 65, it runs ok, and small hills are ok. Big hills, the truck downshifts when I hit ~62 (due to the 5.29's, it cant downshift at a higher speed). As you are probably aware, mine shifts at 3200 unlike the trucks. And I feel like it has no power above about 2900rpm, so it will sit there and just churn away and lose speed. BUT, if I can keep it from downshifting it actually pulls hills better.

For reference, I am turning about 2350rpm at 65, and somewhere around 2600 at 75mph (its also governed at 75mph).

EDIT: also, for reference this is the 300hp VT365. I understand the 300hp VT 365 wasnt very common, and only mainly used in RV's?

Thanks for the reply!
--Jeff

Bill,

I’m also having an issue with the fan clutch on this unit. The original one didn’t work at all, so it’s now replaced with a new one from IH. This new one never shuts off. It has a temp adjustment that changes the preload of the bi-metal spring, which I have messed with and it still runs 100% of the time. My coolant temps stay ~170-180.

Have you messed with the fan clutches in these at all? It’s mechanical.

Jeff

I also got some info from KC turbo that the VT has a much smaller turbo than the truck. Sounded like a swap to a stock truck turbo would be a decent upgrade, assuming tuning is available to accommodate the larger turbo? If so, I might also consider a KC stage 1 as well..

Jeff

I haven't messed with fan clutches since the '80s. :hehe:

Everything I build now I run electric fans on as they tend to lend themselves better to thermostatic control. The problem is that on diesel trucks, you'd need several of them to achieve the airflow you'll need to cool the radiator and intercooler. At least two fans for each or maybe even three fans utilizing two on the front at top and bottom pushing and one rear middle pulling. It could be done fairly easily and could also be easily staggered based on temp (1 fan, 2 fans, 3 fans), and would just require quite the power block to feed it. That would give you cooling at idle, low speed, and heavy load conditions, while providing less fan under light loads, cool days, etc.

Anyway, that's just a thought.

I'm still getting my head around the many configurations that are available with these trucks. I've spent a great deal of time working with the 7.3L trucks and have a good library of calibrations and builds based on the many options available, but still working on the 6.0L stuff.

I'm personally not sure what turbo is used on the VT and how it relates to the 6.0L, so I would defer that to Charlie at KC. In fact, I think I'm going to give him a jingle tomorrow and have a chat about them.

The tuning itself should be pretty straightforward and I don't see an issue with that. Now, I personally prefer using the FICM as a means to increase performance since it directly controls the SOI and PW tables as well as a few other useful items. The ECM is usually used to control ICP, Turbo Control (Desired Boost and VVT Feedforward), Estimated Torque Output (for shifting), and EGR. Combined, these make for really good performance and drivability.

Anyway, I'll get back to you about turbo and tuning and let you know what I find. :thumbsup:

Take care.

Ive actually had similar thoughts, using 3 ford taurus fans. The intercooler on this 4200 is not in front of the radiator, its above. I could build 2 shrouds, one for the IC with a fan, and then another for the radiator with 2 fans. With the taurus fan being 2 speed, it would give me many options for airflow.



Awesome! Thank you for the info. So, from the sounds of that, since my MP8 plugs into the ICP, it and the FICM tune might work fine together in the meantime? Is the VT365 ATLAS 40 ficm tune the same tune as the 6.0? Or would you recommend the eco tune for this?

Id love to be able to use a ~40hp ficm tune, and then an ECM tune that maybe adds a bit, and lets me delete the EGR. It would be even nicer if I could do a small turbo upgrade and get more reliable power out of it!

Thanks Bill!

--Jeff

Jeff,

Being that I am not 100% certain what the MP8 affects in the system, I would NOT recommend trying to combine the MP8 and the FICM tuning. I'd assume that it's modifying the ICP signal as this is what most aftermarket devices do. The Atlas tuning does not respond well to any external influences to the ICP signal values, either by mechanically/electrically altering the signal (ie. resistors, signal modifier boxes, etc.) or by changing the interpreted value in the ECM (ie. spoofing the A/D Converter values in the code). This leads to the undesired effect of artificially raising the Injection Pulsewidth by making the FICM think the ICP is falling. This is generally not a good thing.

There is no reason you couldn't run the Atlas 40, and in fact I've used it on many trucks already without issue. The tuning is very similar to that which is available for the Power Stroke, but just slightly modified for compatibility with the Navistar control systems.

In regards to the fans... depending on the diameter, the setup I was considering was actually six fans. 3 fans for the split radiator and 3 fans for the intercooler. Small diameter, low profile, high RPM fans would be great as the current draw is low and you could stage them using electric thermostats. Anyway, that was my thoughts.

I hope this is helpful.

Awesome! Thanks for the info. I’ll do some measuring and knock something out in solidworks for different fan ideas.

This MP8 is supposed to add 100hp. I can’t find much info about the MP8 and real dyno results. Is 100hp feasible by just manipulating the ICP? I assume the FICM tune will add a lot of drive ability (and MUCH needed low end spool) that would offset the potential power loss from not running the Mp8? Or do you have a safe tow tune/FICM tune combo that could improve over this ICP fooling box (when talking peak hp, I’m sure a real ecm/FICM tune will be better overall)?

Jeff

By the way, if you’d prefer to talk on the phone I’m down for that too. I’ve just had such a hard time finding any info about the VT that I thought having the info out here might be beneficial. There are quite a few guys with these motorhomes looking for tunes besides me (and they all run the MP8 it seems).

Hey Bill!

Another question. Is there a way to have a "tuner" for the FICM on these units with the J1708/J1939 plug? Or am I stuck sending the FICM/ECM in for a tune?

--Jeff

You're in luck. The Orion system will reflash the FICM as well as the ECM. :thumbsup:

One of our current BETA testers has the VT365 setup and we're working on files for him as we speak.

Even Better!! Awesome news Bill!

If you need any testing done in a super heavy setup with 5.29's lemme know. :D A lot of guys with these supernovas have been looking for a tuner for a while. Hypermax used to have the mach 7, but they only sold a few of them and then discontinued them.

I bet you will sell a lot of these tuners to motorhome owners!

--Jeff

So, Ive been doing a bunch more reading. I am curious about running a non VGT on this thing, since with 5.29's it seems to never be below 2Krpm.

Did you ever talk to the guys at KC? Id be curious what they think. I am at 2700rpm at 75mph. Seems like an SXE362 would shine there compared to a VGT, but maybe not?

Also, have you done anything with exhaust brakes on the VT365?

--Jeff

I'm personally a fan of leaving the VGT on, but just going with one that's a little bigger (depending on what model turbo you have now). I like the added boost a VGT achieves at low RPM, and it really doesn't affect the mid to upper RPMs if the vanes are properly controlled.

Lot of folks swap to a non-VGT setup with reasonable success, but many of those applications are for competition situations where spool time isn't a major consideration. On dedicated tow rigs where highway travelling is where most of the vehicle spends its time, swapping to a non-VGT may have some benefit. I'm just not sure it's worth the expense and aggravation.

This leads into your second question. We've done setups that use the VGT as an exhaust brake and it works quite well. Obviously, this would require you keeping the VGT setup versus swapping to a non-VGT.

I hope this helps.

That does help! If I could use my vanes as an exh brake, that would be worth keeping the VGT for that reason solely.

Do you have an ETA for when something will be available, tune wise? Are you still in the beta testing phase or ready for me to try a tune out?

--Jeff

Currently still BETA testing. Also, gonna be a little bit on the VT365. We ran into a communications issue on the VT365 when programming in-vehicle that we need to get worked out. Once that's resolved, we should be good to go.

Sounds good Bill!

Out of curiosity, could I have the FICM programmed with the available software or is it different for the VT?

It's the same software. It will handle both the ECM and the FICM.

Hi Bill!

I am considering sending my FICM to Ed at ficmrepair just to get it "fixed" to narrow down one more issue I could have multiple states away.

I noticed Ed can reprogram the FICM with your software. If I had him reprogram the FICM with the atlas 40, will that normal "6.0 truck" software work with my 300hp RV specific VT365? Or is it unknown/not worth the risk?

--Jeff

Jeff,

Actually, it will NOT work. We've already run into this.

Navistar calibrations for the FICM are vastly different in several aspects and are not compatible with Ford's versions. One of the big issues is that if the ECM doesn't identify the correct strategy, the vehicle will set a DTC and go into limp mode. It just not as simple as it is doing the Ford strategies.

Ultimately, if you want the FICM reflashed it'll have to come in to us. There's just not any other way around it at the moment.

I hope this helps.

Take care.

Thanks Bill! That’s what I had assumed. When I get back from my next trip I’ll pull it and send it to Ed, then to you for a program.

This thing needs more giddy-up. 0-60 is about 4 minutes when fully loaded. Haha.

Jeff