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Gryphon Programmer (Disabled) Edge Product has discontinued the Edge Evolution 2, but we still provide support and tuning for it. If you have a question or comment relating the Gryphon (or Evolution) programmer, post it here. |
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#21
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2005 F150 XLT SuperCab 5.4L V8 4x4, 3.73 LS Rear end, Auto Spring 2" Leveling Kit, Gryphon tuner custom 87 Performance tune, AEM Panel Air filter with modified stock intake, 14" Magnaflow muffler |
#22
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It's not a degree in these settings, it's speed, in mph. Which, is kind of misleading too, since shift and torque lock/unlock depend on not only speed, but throttle position too. I suspect you're going to have to move the setting quite a bit more to notice much of a difference.
- Jack |
#23
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Likewise, I've wondered about the definition of WOT. Does the PCM go into WOT map at a specific percentage of throttle pedal position, a specific amount or rate of change in TP position, or does WOT kick in when the pedal really hits the metal...
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-- 2007 F150 XL, 4.6, Regular Cab, Gryphon Installed 2/2009 "voiding warranties since 1979" |
#24
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I think, but again I could be wrong, that the balance between speed and throttle position determine the "load". If you are say, cruising at 40 mph, there is little load, but if you advance the pedal (try to accelerate the vehicle), then the load increases. It's controlled by a valve, I believe which "floats" back and forth in response to both speed and pedal position, but, below a certain speed, regardless of pedal position, a downshift is commanded and, above a certain speed, regardless of pedal an upshift is commanded.
But, as I understand it also, a WOT throttle overrides everything and shifting becomes controlled totally by RPM. As far as what constitutes WOT, I don't know. It seems to be awfully close to the max deflection point though. I know if I let up just slightly in a WOT situation, the transmission downshifts. I'm sure someone on this forum can enlighten us (and probably tell us that all my earlier statements were wrong too). - Jack |
#25
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WOT throttle is usually anything over 80%, regardless of load or how fast the "pedal hits the metal" (I like that...LOL!!). This is the point that the ECU goes into "open-loop" and reverts to the basic programming...start-up, cold-running, and WOT. Basically the stuff you can adjust on any handheld tuner. Once the ECU senses that the engine is warm (closed-loop), it uses all the emissions sensors to adjust long and short fuel trims and to maintain efficeint operation. You are right that WOT overrides everything, because it "locks out" the sensor information and looks specifically at the predetermined tune values. That's why if you were to say, adjust your spark advance when it is 30* ambient and dry and it works great, at 70* with high humidity, it will not run the same at WOT, possibly to the point of causing damage. The ECU no longer cares about what the air conditions are, it goes to the basic programming (for 30* and dry in this example). Part-throttle, it affects nothing because the ECU is in closed-loop, using the info it's getting from the MAF, O2s, etc.
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#26
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Good information Grabber, thanks! This also makes me think it's not a good idea to "continuously" run in WOT (even though I know you really can't). But, people who continuously like to drop the hammer are going to be in that open loop mode probably more than is good for the engine.
- Jack |
#27
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#28
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Here's a couple thoughts...
1) Open Loop only affects fuel delivery calculations, not spark timing or shifting. Quote:
3) WOT mode occurs at a predetermined point in the calibration and is based on a calculated voltage value from the APP (accelerator pedal position) sensor. This value can be changed to meet the performance need of the vehicle and/or driver. 4) During Open Loop at WOT, there are two things happening: First, the PCM goes into Open Loop fuel mode and runs based off the Open Loop fuel table and MAF. Second, the PCM goes into WOT Fuel Enrichment which provides an extra shot of fuel to help maximize torque output as well as reduce combustion temps. This is the WOT Fuel Multiplier found in the custom options. Since the target fuel ratios are richer at WOT than at cruise, you are often actually safer running at WOT than you are at cruise. Of course, fuel economy is going to be severely affected. 5) At WOT, shifting will revert to an RPM based strategy instead of the normal MPH vs. APP strategies. What the PCM tries to do is anticipate when to shift based on the target shift RPM and the current rate of acceleration of the engine. Based on calculated factors, the PCM determines how long the upcoming shift will take to complete and generate an RPM value at which to begin the shift procedure. This is MUCH trickier than it sounds and more involved than I'd care to get into at this moment. 6) Spark Timing is based on Load and Engine Speed, but is also heavily influenced by AFR, Engine Temp, Air Temp, Knock Sensor input, and other factors. This is not directly affected by WOT or even Open Loop, but can be indirectly affected by changes in AFR as a result of going into WOT or Open Loop modes. There is a tremendous amount of data being processed inside the average vehicle's PCM. In fact, the 04-08 uses a derivative of the Power PC processors to handle meet these needs. Feedback (Closed Loop) systems try to maintain a zero control error, but that is only if the values from the sensors are accurate and why many CAI kits cause problems. Without changing the appropriate tables, the MAF data being returned to the PCM no longer has any direct relationship to the actual amount of air entering the engine. From that point, all other calculations based on MAF value are going to be incorrect - both Closed Loop and Open Loop. I hope this makes sense. It did to me at 1:00 in the morning.
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Bill Cohron - The Mad Doctor Power Hungry Performance - The ORIGINAL in Ford performance tuning... Since 1997! (678) 890-1110 www.gopowerhungry.com - Home of the Hydra Chip, Minotaur Tuning Software, and the new Orion Reflash System for Navistar! Bring back Windows™ XP and 7. Windows™ Vista and Windows™ 8 is a pain in my a$$! Windows™ 10 is only slightly less annoying! Windows™ 11 is garbage! Much to my surprise, I'm actually quite enjoying Linux! |
#29
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[B]3) WOT mode occurs at a predetermined point in the calibration and is based on a calculated voltage value from the APP (accelerator pedal position) sensor. This value can be changed to meet the performance need of the vehicle and/or driver.
Bill, About where does this occur (APP) in your standard tunes and custom tunes. I am not an automotive engineer so have only a rudimentary understanding of all the values used and how it changes WOT. I guess what I'm asking is as a rule of thumb is it at 80%, 90%, 100% APP? etc.
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2005 F150 XLT SuperCab 5.4L V8 4x4, 3.73 LS Rear end, Auto Spring 2" Leveling Kit, Gryphon tuner custom 87 Performance tune, AEM Panel Air filter with modified stock intake, 14" Magnaflow muffler |
#30
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One of the things I love about these forums, and this one in particular, is all the nifty knowledge you can pick up by reading them and asking questions.
Thanks, Bill - that was a super contribution! - Jack |
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