2007 F150 5.4L with Gryphon

[coggerwayne]

My daughter looking for cheap used car - guess I'll take the Neon off my list

[Power Hungry]

If there are any codes, they should stay in the PCM for at least a few days. If I remember correctly, it is based on the number of key cycles before a non-persistent DTC will clear itself out.

Programmer should be back to you soon. Hang on...

[Caforddude]

Sine I am posting this thread over at fordtruckfanatics.com also I am going to cut and paste my last couple of posts from over there into this thread so this thread can stay current on what has happened to date. Here is the thread over there if anyone wants to follow along with other folks responses also.
http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/for...ad.php?t=10003

I alternated colors to indicate different successive posts I have made in the above thread about this issue...

They said throwin like 4 different codes for both side of the engine cams.

And they are pulling the valve covers tomorrow to check the cams and what not. Not exactly sure what they are checking for, abuse, broke, stuck...

All the service writer could say was I have NEVER seen both sides go bad before unless it was related to an oil change with a crappy filter...


I'll keep ya posted.

well if they end up saying it was an oil change issue then i guess im the hook for the bill...no idea how I could put it in walmarts lap...im sure they would say not their fault and throw it in frams lap.

where would it end and how much time and money would it take to prove...

26 hours my car has been in their shop and they are JUST now going to take it on a test drive to see if the oil change THEY wanted to do did the job. They are only working on it now because I called a pitched a fit.

UNBELIEVABLE.

In 17 minutes I will be on my way over to the dealership with a tow truck enroute and have it towed to another dealership for the work if they can't give me a firm answer on what EXACTLY the problem is.

I have owned 13 brand new Fords in my short life and I have NEVER had this poor of customer service from a dealership.

I blame myself really. I have dealt with Drew Ford in La Mesa for all 13 of my vehicle purchases AND all my service. Again I have NEVER had this kind of piss poor customer service from them on any issue I have had them check in to. I was in a bind and Rancho Ford is in Temecula while Drew is 70 miles away. My gut said don't do it but the necessity for a close fix to hopefully avoid a rental car made me choose them.

Learned my lesson

I also want to make this clear to everyone that reads this.

I AM NOT TRYING TO LAY BLAME AT THE FEET OF THE MECHANICS AT ALL THIS IS PURELY A CUSTOMER SERVICE ISSUE TO ME

My frustration is with the service writer and service manager, who after 3 messages has yet to return a call to me. This is about not keeping a customer updated. I am not looking for a minute by minute update but when I am the one that has to call to get an update rather then them calling me, I have an issue. When I am having to decide if I need to rent a car and have to wait till they get back to me at 5:30pm I find that to be an issue. When I am told I will get a call at 0900 and after 4 attempts to call them I finally talk to someone else, I have an issue with that. When I am told they are taking it for a test drive we will call you as soon as they get back and let you know what they found and it is a full two hours later...I have an issue with that.

Sorry but customer service is my pet peeve whether it be a resturant, shoe store or car dealership. If you don't want to be in customer service then
there are plenty of other jobs out there...

/rant

[Caforddude]

So I got a call a few ago telling me my truck was ready and the problem has been resolved, or resolved itself.

They said all they did was an oil change and that corrected the condition. They ran it for a bit and did not get any codes. They said when they drained the old oil it came out brown and gritty...

I have not picked up the truck yet so I do not know what the paperwork says but I will let you know if it says any different when I get it.

I have taken a few things from this incident:
1) Rancho Ford in Temecula has horrible customer service. Stick with established dealership relationships like I have always preached in the past and these types of incidents can probably be avoided. Shame on me for not following my own advice.
2) As much as I have defended Wal-Mart's oil changes as being fine, because of this bad experience I will not take my truck back to them for service.
3) the 2009 Chrysler Sebring, while cute, has less guts then a 3 legged donkey.

OH YEAH ALL FIXED...I DIDN'T EVEN FREAKIN MAKE IT HOME BEFORE IT DID THE EXACT SAME THING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FREAKIN IDIOTS AT THAT DEALERSHIP ALL THE WAY AROUND. I'M NOT A MECHANIC AND I CAN SEE AND HEAR IT AIN'T WORKING RIGHT

These are their notes word for word.


"Eng runs really rough and the ck eng light is not on

Check engine light on eec test codes p0012 p0022 p0340 pinpoint test. log data. found vct errors of -53 deg. recommend change oil and filter then retest. road test after service. retest pass."

Both of their test drives combined were 6 miles. My drive home from the dealership is 6 miles. problem happened about 4 miles into drive for me.

Another user was kind enough to give me the trouble codes meanings. His post.

P0012 = "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0022 = "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2)
P0340 = Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction

If the cam timing exceeds a maximum calibrated limit or is stuck in a retarded position, will set codes P0012 or P0022 or both. dealer recorded your VCT at -53 degrees.

Possible causes are:
Incorrect camshaft timing
VCT solenoid valve stuck open or continuous oil flow to piston chamber
Camshaft advance mechanism binding, or faulty VCT unit

P0012 & P0022 codes are caused by a mechanical fault of the VCT unit or related components.

Symptoms may include:
rough idle
stall or hard start.

Perform specific component tests for the VCT unit outlined by FMC.

P0340 indicates that a problem was detected in the camshaft position sensor circuit. This means the problem could lie in any part of the circuit - the sensor itself, the wiring, or the PCM.

Symptoms may include:
Hard starting or no start
Rough running / misfiring
Loss of engine power

A code P0340 could mean one or more of the following has happened:
- wire or connector in the circuit could be grounded/shorted/broken
- camshaft position sensor may have failed
- PCM may have failed
- open circuit exists
- crankshaft position sensor failed

Generic diagnostics for P0340:
Visually inspect all the wiring and connectors in the circuit
Check for continuity in the circuit wiring
Check the operation (voltage) of the camshaft position sensor
Replace the camshaft position sensor as required
Check the crankshaft position circuit
Replace circuit wiring and/or connectors as required
Diagnose/replace the PCM as required

[Caforddude]

This is rapidly turning from a problem to a nightmare.

[Power Hungry]

Aaron,

I can't believe how bad this is getting for you. It sounds like all they wanted to do was throw $15.00 oil change at it and blow you out the door.

Stupid question now, but did they happen to save any of the "gritty" oil they drained form the engine or the oil filter? Without question, gritty oil is a sign of a MUCH MORE SERIOUS PROBLEM and an oil change isn't going to fix it.

Given the nature of the issue and the gritty oil, it almost sounds like the timing chain followers/guides are getting worn down and particles are flowing into the oil. This is just a guess as I don't know the nature of the "grit" and whether it was metallic or plastic.

When you have a minute, start the engine and run it for a minute to sling oil onto the dipstick. Then pull the dipstick and check the oil. DO NOT wipe the dipstick down, but feel the oil to see if it has any sort of a gritty feel. Also, check the oil residue on the dipstick to see if there are any shiny "flakes" floating in it. If you see anything that looks like really fine glitter then it's a safe bet the engine is going to have to come out. If you don't see any shine particles but the oil still feels a bit gritty, then it's possible that the timing chain guides have become damaged and the timing chain is literally filing away parts of the plastic.

What also concerns me is that even if there is garbage in the oil, the filter should be handling it. What I'm afraid of is that whatever "grit" was in the oil may have actually clogged the filter to the point that it started to bypass it and pump unfiltered oil to the internals, which of course includes the cam phasers. You can see where this is going to end up and it's not good.

I don't know what else to tell you, but if there's anything we can do to help let us know.

Good luck.

[Caforddude]

Thanks for your response bill. No I doubt they saved any of the oil. It is going into a different dealer on Monday

Now the problem is that any evidence of the true underlying problem may have been cleared out of the computer when they reset all the codes and dumped away when they changed the oil. Just going to make it harder for the mechanic to figure out and possibly in the shop longer

Frustrating for sure

[Power Hungry]

I agree with you that it is going to be harder to diagnose. Still, my concern is that there may be other internal issues. Check that oil if you get a chance. If there's enough garbage to cause the DTC, it's possible you will be able to see or feel it in the oil.

Also, I don't mean to sound negative towards your engine's prospects, but I am the kind of person who looks at the worst possible scenario and then goes back from there. It could be something stupidly simple and in the hands of a competent technician it would be resolved quickly.

Keep us posted.

[Caforddude]

Well now i have a check engine light also...

[Power Hungry]

DTCs?? Are they the same ones as before?