Mercon V vs. ???

[Punisher]

Ok... I did a forum search and couldn't locate anything so I thought I'd post.

Current Setup:
S&B CAI
Granatelli COPs
Troyer eFans
Troyer Underdrives
Banks Torque Tubes
Banks Monster Exhaust

I have the Gryphon tuner but only have the canned tunes as I'm waiting on custom tunes to be written.

I've order and received the Troyer Valve Body upgrade for the 4R75W transmission and was wondering...

Is there a better ATF to run than the Mercon V? If I'm going to drop 10qts (according to Troyer they say purchase 8 - 10 qts to fill tranny back up after swap) out of 14qts, I think this would be a good time to make the change... if possible.

Anyone running anything other than the Mercon V in their 2004-2008 F150?
If so, what are your results, thoughts and opinions?
Also, anyone recommend the +2qts added capacity pan? Is there a benefit adding 2qts to 14qts? (about a 15% increase in capacity)

If so, how do I get the last 4qts out of the transmission? Is there a pump/vacuum procedure?

Thanks in advance for any helpful advice!

-Rich

[88Racing]

The specs call for mercon v to be in our trucks.
There are alot of mfgrs out there that make the mercon v.
Lucas.
Amsoils.
Redline.
Royal purple.
Vavoline.
Motorcraft.
Penzoil.
Castroil.
The list goes on...........
Extra capacity pan?...Nice.... But the only benefit I see is that you get a drain plug in the pan. The pan still has to be removed each time to get at the filter but the plug makes it less messy. The key to keeping everything going in your tranny is keeping it cool...approx 160* F to 210* F.
You'll never get all the fluid out unless you drain the tq converter.....good luck ours don't have a drain plug in them.
You'll never get all the old fluid out of the transmission, the only way is to mechanically take it out and tear it apart.

[Jackpine]

Wouldn't the added fluid help maintain slightly lower temperatures? I don't know if this would be a significant effect or not, but if it's a 15% increase in volume, it should help some.

And, I sure wouldn't put anything but Mercon V in it.

- Jack

[JWBFX4]

X2 on staying with mercon V, I really like the royal purple for my stuff (just my opinion though about all of them are pretty good) And as stated...no way of draining it all out. The only option is a flush.

[88Racing]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Wouldn't the added fluid help maintain slightly lower temperatures? I don't know if this would be a significant effect or not, but if it's a 15% increase in volume, it should help some.

And, I sure wouldn't put anything but Mercon V in it.

- Jack

Just thinking out loud.
The extra capacity pan allows more fluid but still is limited to the transmission body.
A larger external cooler would have a more dramatic effect on cooling the fluid then a slight chance from the extra capacity.
However the OP doesn't state what extra capacity pan he is going to use?
If the pan is made out of aluminum and finned then yes the cooling will be better than slight but still not as good as a larger cooler.

[Punisher]

I think I've figured it out...

Apparently the consensus is that the Mercon V is the best out there... currently. So... I'll stick with that since there is currently no way to drain the torque converter. Otherwise I would be mixing different types and that usually leads to some type of disaster.

As for the added capacity... +2qts to 14 (13.8qt capacity according to specs) adds roughly 15% volume. Once a tranny is at temp... it's at temp. Cooling isn't a factor of volume but rather of heat transfer... hence a transmission cooler. The added capacity would only be of benefit during a drag/sprint type situation. It takes longer and/or more heat to raise temp of 16qts than it does 14qts. A larger pot of water so to speak. So, since I'm not going to be running 1/4s at the strip... the added expense of fluid and a $200 to $300 pan have no performance benefit and only hit the wallet harder. Greenies that could be better spent/applied elsewhere.

Thanks for the input...

I plan on post w/pics once install is completed. I ordered a drain plug for the stock pan from Jegs so as soon as it arrives I'll make the mess. I'm doing the drain plug to prevent future messes during fluid change intervals.

Thanks again y'all for the thoughts/opinions!

[408F150]

I haven't replaced the ATF pan in my F150, but I did do so in my 1970 Dodge Charger (440 Six Pack) and noticed a large drop in TFT. There were 2 reasons for this that I can think of:

-More capacity= more surface area of the pan= more heat dissipation
-Switching from a Steel to an Aluminum pan changed the heat transfer rate with the external air

But, I still agree that buying a nice ATF cooler that's similar to a V10 SD and bolting on a couple 6" fans for low speed towing is going to beat a deeper pan any day.

[Jackpine]

Originally Posted by 408F150

I haven't replaced the ATF pan in my F150, but I did do so in my 1970 Dodge Charger (440 Six Pack) and noticed a large drop in TFT. There were 2 reasons for this that I can think of:

-More capacity= more surface area of the pan= more heat dissipation
-Switching from a Steel to an Aluminum pan changed the heat transfer rate with the external air

But, I still agree that buying a nice ATF cooler that's similar to a V10 SD and bolting on a couple 6" fans for low speed towing is going to beat a deeper pan any day.

Agree 100%. And I think some people MAY have misunderstood my post about reducing TFT. I still think it will help things run cooler if the volume of transmission fluid is increased. The transmission fluid is a "heat sink", and any time you put a larger heat sink into a heat producing device, it runs somewhat cooler. Part of the reason it should is that a lower percentage of the cooler reservoir contents is being circulated into the heat producing area. So, that fluid is cooler to start with - then its heat is dissipated into the reservoir when it returns. And, higher volume means higher surface area to dissipate excess heat (as 408F150 pointed out). You don't really need fins for this (but they would help).

As an experiment, you can try running your engine about 2 qts low on oil and see what happens to the engine temperature. Don't let it get so low that the oil pump is sucking air, but let it drop. The engine temps (CHT and ECT) will increase. (I learned this little gem of information back in the 70's, on a trip!) The excess oil is cooling things off and I'd be willing to bet that excess transmission fluid will do the same.

Is a transmission cooler better? Sure. Are both better? Double sure.

- Jack

[sam1947]

This might be a little off-topic, but, here goes..I too am installing the Troyer VB on my 07 4R75-E Trans W/ a (not yet known) aluminum pan. My question is..will I have to get all new tunes for my Gryphon after the transplant ??

[88Racing]

^^^^^^
With the VB some adjustments to the custom tunes may be required.
A gentle test drive will need to be done to confirm.
If the shifts become to harsh you need to go into custom options and reduce the shift firmness settings.
Then if you feel that the tunes need to be adjusted then start a thread in "Recalibration Requests".