Rough running with updated FICM

eabrust · #1 Mon, August 31st, 2009, 08:13 PM

Looking for some help from Bill or anyone else that has done FICM updating on their truck.

I got a spare FICM off Ebay (a model year '04 module) that had the latest Ford flash on it. Had it in my truck ('06 F350) for a little over a week driving around town to check it out prior to sending off for reflashing. Had no issues, it worked great, so I figured the module must be OK and sent it in for FICM reprogram, got it back pretty quick (thanks Bill!).

I finally tried installing the reprogrammed module in my truck this last week. On first start in the morning, and starting up to go home from work in the afternoon, the truck would lope and idle poorly, and in general run rough like one or so injectors weren't quite working right. After a few minutes, the loping idle would cease, but heading out on the road the truck has no power and stumbles, still as if an injector isn't quite doing its thing. Fuel mileage was also suffering. After the truck was up to temp, it would run just great, had great drivability, and seemed to have no issues.

I gave it a few days to see if it would resolve itself or if the PCM had to 'relearn' anything, truck never threw an CEL and continued to run crappy, and finaly removed the reprogrammed FICM and put my original back in. Truck runs great out of the chute every morning with the stock FICM and program, never a stutter, so I know the issue is tied to the FICM, not to individual injector(s).

I pulled apart the reprogrammmed spare FICM, to see if I could find any issue relating to the modules behavior (smoked resistors, cracked solder joints, etc.) and couldn't find any issues. The DC convert coils and caps all looked OK, and the driver side looked OK to. Pics attached if anyone is curious what is in a FICM.

So I guess my questions are:
1) Does the PCM have to relearn anything w/ updated FICM for some length of time (ie, did I pull the module to quick?)
2) Is the updated programming pretty much canned for any and all trucks, or does it depend on what strategy is in the PCM? My truck was in the shop a week or two ago, and I know they reflashed both my PCM and my stock FICM recently. Is it possible a slightly different program would work better on my truck?
3) From what I read, the behavior of the FICM to work better as the truck heats up seems to match what people find as the module is on its way out, is that the case? (would be my luck the FICM would die just after getting a proper program put on it....) I was hoping to find an issue in the FICM, but couldn't see any indication, looking at all components solder joints under magnification.

Thanks for any insight anyone can provide.
Regards
Eric Brust

lbjailer · #2 Tue, September 1st, 2009, 07:56 PM

I experienced a similar event the other day with my 08 F150. It was hot outside, (temp registered 115 on the truck dash display) I traveled a short distance, truck seemed like it wasn't firing on one of the cylinders. Drove about 3 miles, stopped and less than 10 minutes later got in the truck started it up and runs fine. There were no diagnostic codes on the Gryphon, and everything seems ok, but will have dealer check my plug wires and check my CAI screws and make sure they aren't loose.

***Jeremy*** · #3 Tue, September 1st, 2009, 08:27 PM

Whenever I've had issue with the FICM and it was usally when I had just changed it out, was because I did'nt have the plugs all the way in. I've learned to listen to the two distintive snaps from each plug, to make sure they were in all the way. I also put dielectric grease on the rubber seals on the the FICM, it makes it easier to remove next time it has to come off. I've had then run on 7 cyl, and only 4 at times from the plugs not being in right.

The other reason was I had Innovative's tunes on my SCT X3, and they did'nt like the FICM on cold morning starts(0F-30F. The truck would start, and run rough for about 2 minutes then die. You could restart and it would be fine once it warmed up. Removed the SCT and it was fine.

I'd put it on one more time just to be sure. After all its only a five minute swap.

keep us posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eabrust

Looking for some help from Bill or anyone else that has done FICM updating on their truck.

I got a spare FICM off Ebay (a model year '04 module) that had the latest Ford flash on it. Had it in my truck ('06 F350) for a little over a week driving around town to check it out prior to sending off for reflashing. Had no issues, it worked great, so I figured the module must be OK and sent it in for FICM reprogram, got it back pretty quick (thanks Bill!).

I finally tried installing the reprogrammed module in my truck this last week. On first start in the morning, and starting up to go home from work in the afternoon, the truck would lope and idle poorly, and in general run rough like one or so injectors weren't quite working right. After a few minutes, the loping idle would cease, but heading out on the road the truck has no power and stumbles, still as if an injector isn't quite doing its thing. Fuel mileage was also suffering. After the truck was up to temp, it would run just great, had great drivability, and seemed to have no issues.

I gave it a few days to see if it would resolve itself or if the PCM had to 'relearn' anything, truck never threw an CEL and continued to run crappy, and finaly removed the reprogrammed FICM and put my original back in. Truck runs great out of the chute every morning with the stock FICM and program, never a stutter, so I know the issue is tied to the FICM, not to individual injector(s).

I pulled apart the reprogrammmed spare FICM, to see if I could find any issue relating to the modules behavior (smoked resistors, cracked solder joints, etc.) and couldn't find any issues. The DC convert coils and caps all looked OK, and the driver side looked OK to. Pics attached if anyone is curious what is in a FICM.

So I guess my questions are:
1) Does the PCM have to relearn anything w/ updated FICM for some length of time (ie, did I pull the module to quick?)
2) Is the updated programming pretty much canned for any and all trucks, or does it depend on what strategy is in the PCM? My truck was in the shop a week or two ago, and I know they reflashed both my PCM and my stock FICM recently. Is it possible a slightly different program would work better on my truck?
3) From what I read, the behavior of the FICM to work better as the truck heats up seems to match what people find as the module is on its way out, is that the case? (would be my luck the FICM would die just after getting a proper program put on it....) I was hoping to find an issue in the FICM, but couldn't see any indication, looking at all components solder joints under magnification.

Thanks for any insight anyone can provide.
Regards
Eric Brust

NHRA6002 · #4 Wed, September 2nd, 2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eabrust

Looking for some help from Bill or anyone else that has done FICM updating on their truck.

I got a spare FICM off Ebay (a model year '04 module) that had the latest Ford flash on it. Had it in my truck ('06 F350) for a little over a week driving around town to check it out prior to sending off for reflashing. Had no issues, it worked great, so I figured the module must be OK and sent it in for FICM reprogram, got it back pretty quick (thanks Bill!).

I finally tried installing the reprogrammed module in my truck this last week. On first start in the morning, and starting up to go home from work in the afternoon, the truck would lope and idle poorly, and in general run rough like one or so injectors weren't quite working right. After a few minutes, the loping idle would cease, but heading out on the road the truck has no power and stumbles, still as if an injector isn't quite doing its thing. Fuel mileage was also suffering. After the truck was up to temp, it would run just great, had great drivability, and seemed to have no issues.

I gave it a few days to see if it would resolve itself or if the PCM had to 'relearn' anything, truck never threw an CEL and continued to run crappy, and finaly removed the reprogrammed FICM and put my original back in. Truck runs great out of the chute every morning with the stock FICM and program, never a stutter, so I know the issue is tied to the FICM, not to individual injector(s).

I pulled apart the reprogrammmed spare FICM, to see if I could find any issue relating to the modules behavior (smoked resistors, cracked solder joints, etc.) and couldn't find any issues. The DC convert coils and caps all looked OK, and the driver side looked OK to. Pics attached if anyone is curious what is in a FICM.

So I guess my questions are:
1) Does the PCM have to relearn anything w/ updated FICM for some length of time (ie, did I pull the module to quick?)
2) Is the updated programming pretty much canned for any and all trucks, or does it depend on what strategy is in the PCM? My truck was in the shop a week or two ago, and I know they reflashed both my PCM and my stock FICM recently. Is it possible a slightly different program would work better on my truck?
3) From what I read, the behavior of the FICM to work better as the truck heats up seems to match what people find as the module is on its way out, is that the case? (would be my luck the FICM would die just after getting a proper program put on it....) I was hoping to find an issue in the FICM, but couldn't see any indication, looking at all components solder joints under magnification.

Thanks for any insight anyone can provide.
Regards
Eric Brust

I'm having the same issue with mine since the new program was installed in Monroe WA.

Any thoughts?

eabrust · #5 Wed, September 2nd, 2009, 06:16 PM

Thanks for the reply Jeremy,

I did give it another try tonight. Today I didn't drive the truck at all to work, so when I got home, it was at ambient temp (~76*F according to the trucks thermometer when I started it). I swapped the FICM without having started the truck at all today. I looked at every pin in all connectors to ensure none are bent or tweaked, and made sure I got the distinct click from every one of the three connectors as they went in. Fired the truck up and it had the distinct lope in the idle. I just backed down the driveway and then drove forward again and parked. Still loping away and can smell extra strong fuel smell in the exhaust. I have a hard time believing that the FICM can't drive the injectors on a day when the truck is sitting at a temp of 76F, and it still has to heat up to run right?!

Shut it off, swapped back to the original FICM w/ Ford program in it, and it starts up idling nice and smooth.

So I guess I'm down to either having a faulty FICM w/ a good updated program on it, or the FICM is good and the program isn't quite playing well with my truck.

Not quite sure how to sort that out. I don't have a scanner that can read the FICM voltages to tell if it is dying (anyone anywhere near Rockford IL that could scan it for those PIDs?). I have a hard time believing that shipping it back and forth for programming would kill it, as it is designed to survive being bolted to the top of an engine for its entire life, and I couldn't find any sort of electrical fault indication internally (but not to say it couldn't be faulted or on its way out).

NHRA6002, are you also swapping between a spare FICM and an original, or did you send your original and you only have one your working with? I guess I'm trying to gauge how well you know the condition of the FICM you sent for programming, since I only ran my FICM for a week before sending it in. Can you expand on your situation, your symptoms, and from what version FICM program you made a jump from?

Thanks all for the help.
Eric Brust

NHRA6002 · #6 Thu, September 3rd, 2009, 12:05 AM

I had a new FICM installed under warranty at the beginning of the year, so it had what ever the latest fords program installed at the dealer. Bill reprogrammed mine in person when he was at Dynomite Diesel in Monroe WA a couple months ago. Same symptoms as you but no loping at idle, definate fealing that at least one injector not firing,sluggish,poor shifting,no power untill ECT reached about 130'F then all seamed OK.
I don't know what the software version was that was in it, Bill might remember.

***88Racing*** · #7 Thu, September 3rd, 2009, 06:45 AM

Seems like you guys are having issues beyond my knowledge of diesels. I will post a note for Bill to address this.

Lars

***88Racing*** · #8 Thu, September 3rd, 2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbjailer

I experienced a similar event the other day with my 08 F150. It was hot outside, (temp registered 115 on the truck dash display) I traveled a short distance, truck seemed like it wasn't firing on one of the cylinders. Drove about 3 miles, stopped and less than 10 minutes later got in the truck started it up and runs fine. There were no diagnostic codes on the Gryphon, and everything seems ok, but will have dealer check my plug wires and check my CAI screws and make sure they aren't loose.

Mine has done this also. Once this spring on a snowy wet slushy day and this summer with the truck being in the garage for 2 weeks, no rain and not humid that day.
No tunes and no cai.

Lars

***Jeremy*** · #9 Thu, September 3rd, 2009, 09:59 AM

Boy that sucks, I've been leary of used FICMs because of the damn heat inductive flash killing them left and right, you may have bought one that was on its way out. New ones from ford are ~$475 now, i guess with all the failures, ford lowered the price.

eabrust · #10 Thu, September 10th, 2009, 08:20 PM

Well, per an email I got from Bill, it was suggested that I could monitor the voltage from the access port directly rather than use a scan tool (why didn't I think of that myself?!). He said he'd get me instructions on what to do, but I know he's busy, and I know electronics enough to just go do it.

So I went ahead and made measurements of both my stock (good working) FICM and my PHP tuned FICM which is giving me some issues. I attached a link to a PDF documenting what I did for reference, should it help anyone else out. I used long enough test lead wire to let me sit in the truck and rev the engine during testing also. As a side note, if any of you want to go testing your FICMs, be very careful, I don't want to hear anyone say they smoked and broke their modules because of me

Long story short, the DC output on both of my FICMs is right at 48+ volts, so it doesn't appear that the FICM is suffering a slow death from the power supply side. It could be a problem on the driver board side, but I wouldn't think that would tend to clear up as the truck warms up, which still leaves me thinking there is some software strategy conflict that may be resolved by another software load.

Still hoping to hear from Bill any further suggestions or if he has any ideas on software conflict possibility. If anyone has any suggestions to the attached PDF let me know, or if anyone finds the attachment useful for future reference, feel free to use it or make it a sticky here on this forum.

The PDF is a 2.3MB file, so I linked to it.
Link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=a...4e75f6e8ebb871

Thanks
Eric