Economy tune/timing question

[secondarychaos]

Hello,
I've got a question about Economy tunes. there was some debate about economy tunes and "ventilated" blocks
My question is this: what in the Economy tune is suspect to causing this Rapid remodel of the engine compartment? Some seem to think it was the timing causing too early or too high of a pressure spike. Does this sound accurate?
I understand that this was mostly on heavily modified or PMR trucks, but I like to know all that I can, and may modify my truck heavily some day and dont want it to
Thanks,
Dan

[Power Hungry]

There is still speculation as to what EXACTLY was the issue. I have found a specific set of problems that related to calibrations done for the PMR engines that weren't exactly related to the tuning, but were an actual error in the file itself. The tip-off on that was the fact that people were experiencing problems switching levels when they shouldn't have been. Even with that, the Econo files looked like the timing was more aggressive then it needed to be and that may have been a contributing factor to the failures.

In general, the consensus is that timing helps improve mileage by keeping as much heat energy in the cylinders. This would be immediately recognizable by the lower EGT and boost levels at cruise. Unfortunately, this also contributed to the now infamous "Death Rattle" which would cause engines to pop. I've not seen this with stock injected engines so there must be something specific to the Stage 2 injector setup that simply doesn't like timing.

Tuning with the timing tables is a bit of a fine art. Watching boost, EGTs, and even listening to what the engine is telling you can be an indication if you're going too far. Of course, using cylinder pressure test equipment is the final answer to all of life's mysteries (in relation to how your tuning is going), but at $7000.00+ it is out of reach of most people.

[Corey Cohron RIP]

You are most democratic, Dear Husband.

[roosterdiesel]

I only have one thing to add...the CP testing equipment needs the addition of knowing when SOI is commanded by the PCM.



My CP setup consists of a 2 channel oscilloscope from SnapOn and a custom pressure transducer from Kavlico. I'm sending them a glowplug and the are making one that will read the same pressures that the cylinder head surface and valves do. I will only test one cylinder with 2 variables consisting of SOI, TDC #1 and cylinder pressure to choose from.


For economy I will test crusing down the highway @ 65mph.

[bbbxcursion]

Both my popped engines had stage 2's.....and 80E. If I did it again, I'd go hybrids.

[Corey Cohron RIP]

We usually get at least one call a week from a dealer or customer who has a "ventilated" engine. It almost seems pointless to ask who and what they were running because we KNOW what the answer will be.

I don't think they would be adverse to correcting the calibration. I just believe that it is SO widespread, it would be cost prohibitive (which doesn't make it right, but is what it is); someone also pointed out in the 80E thread that if they admit it's their fault, it also makes them culpable, and I doubt they want to go there financially.

As a fairly well-known tuning company in this industry, I really hope that the right, moral decision is made because it really does hurt the 7.3L tuning industry as a whole when engines are being destroyed by anyone for ANY reason. We'll sit back, wait, and see.

[bbbxcursion]

I'm not sure if it was the 80e program on my truck that did it. It was 2 different versions of the program and the last engine was live tuned. Maybe there was a flaw in the 1st program....But even in the 2nd live tuned one? I don't know. I drove it like I stole it, and paid the price.

[Corey Cohron RIP]

Just spoke with the Mad Doctor, himself, who speculates that the same base 80E file would have been used with live tuning, too... Of course, we don't know for sure, but Bill's been around a L-O-N-G time so I tend to trust his knowledge.

Quick question, bbbx, were you really on it or just driving normally each time?

[bbbxcursion]

Normal just cruisin down the highway. The noise still haunts me. Now no matter what I drive, I'm waiting for that BOOM to happen again. I know Bill's been around and I know your history with DP. No secrets on this end. I respect Jody for what he does and how he runs the buisness with his wife. I wish I had a better story with my truck, but I guess that's life. The first engine was cruisin at about 65 mph. The second was about 45 mph. The only load on the engine was just to maintain the speed I was at. When I think about the noise, my heart starts racing really fast every damn time. My workers said my skin was pale white when the 2nd engine popped. Man have I had bad luck!

[Corey Cohron RIP]

I was trying to figure out someplace that I could post that so that I could refer you right there and say, "SEE? How did I know?"

That's the pattern, unfortunately, and I just learned the reason why!

While writing this thread, I stopped and asked Bill to clarify something about timing and that particular file, and I totally understand! Go figure. Even a novice like me gets it. And the more I learn, the more I KNOW I don't even WANT to learn how to tune!

I also just got a great lesson about PMRs vs. forged rods (using a tempered vs. regular glass analogy -- he's a great teacher sometimes!). Did you have PMRs by any chance?

I've never heard an engine blow, and I can't even imagine driving the truck during the experience! I'm just glad that you were able to stop the truck safely. That's what really matters.

And please don't misunderstand my posts -- we have nothing against his tuning as a whole (he's been doing it for a few years now, so he's obviously doing something right!); many of his files have crossed Bill's desk via dealers and customers since 2007. So far, it's just this particular 80E file that's the issue.