Help w/ strange TC/Shift issue with Fuel Sipper tune

[soutthpaw]

I just sent ya an email with the AE datalog I did this AM.. I even have a video of the instrument cluster on my blackberry but need to convert to play it
had to zip the file up to load it into the thread but at least Bill or anyone else can see it too that way

here is the cut and paste text
I monitored shift solenoid 2 as it shows "0" when in 4th and "1" in 3rd gear.

between about point 72 and 168 can see 2 sections where its got a constant speed and stays in OD but the RPM keeps fluctuating between about 1500 and 1000-1100 caused by the TCC locking and unlocking and the speed is constant around 40-41 mph throttle is running about 23%

Let me know what ya think, had a chance to get this data this am
Thanks DJ

OH I couldn't duplicate the effect in 60, 100 or 140 tunes either....

[cleatus12r]

DJ,

Wow. Yeah. I see that. For some reason, the TCC isn't being commanded on....when it SHOULD be. Weird. I just drove mine again to see if I could get it to do what your datalog showed. Nope. Mine doesn't do it.

As far as your shift solenoid "issue" goes, there are two shift solenoids in the transmission that control the 4 gears. They work like a logic table. For example:

1 off, 2 off = 4th
1 off, 2 on = 3rd
1 on, 2 off = 1st
1 on, 2 on = 2nd

This goes along with what your AE showed you....SS2 "0" (off) in 4th and "1" (on) in 3rd.

If this parameter is changing when your TC is acting up, then you have a correlation issue between 3-4 and 4-3 shift points.

That's a neat software package you have there, DJ.

EDIT:
I see that the SS2 value changed at frame 143-ish. The TC was acting up before that..... Hmmm.

[soutthpaw]

Yeah its really strange. I sent Bill a PM so hopefully he will jump in again when he gets a chance as it's "his" tune... before I start changing stuff...... That's the first time I have used the AE software so pretty cool. and Being a CSV file anyone can look at the data in spreadsheet form without needing the AE software which I though was pretty cool instead of being a propitiatory format...
It all runs of my Sansung NC10 netbook which makes it real convenient to use

here is the video mataches to the 120-140 range of graph
Video of RPM surge

[cleatus12r]

As far as any opinions go on this....

I got it to act up in my truck.

It shifted fine and correctly up until 4th gear and would hold 38-40 MPH all day and not have an issue. Once the speedometer hit 37, the torque converter would unlock and then start it's lock/unlock sequence.

Returning the 3-4 and 4-3 shift tables to normal (stock settings) gets rid of all issues with the shift....and it still shifts rediculously early. The thing to keep in mind is that the tune makes the accelerator pedal far more responsive than stock so the TP a/d is going to be lower for any road speed anyway so the transmission will shift earlier than stock all things considered.

For all intents and purposes, correcting for tire size and leaving the 3-4 and 4-3 shift parameters the same as stock would probably work just fine. Between us, another well-known tuner doesn't change the shift points at all for his "economy" tunes. The stock settings with a more sensitive APP makes the transmission shift early too.

[soutthpaw]

Originally Posted by cleatus12r

As far as any opinions go on this....

I got it to act up in my truck.

It shifted fine and correctly up until 4th gear and would hold 38-40 MPH all day and not have an issue. Once the speedometer hit 37, the torque converter would unlock and then start it's lock/unlock sequence.

Returning the 3-4 and 4-3 shift tables to normal (stock settings) gets rid of all issues with the shift....and it still shifts rediculously early. The thing to keep in mind is that the tune makes the accelerator pedal far more responsive than stock so the TP a/d is going to be lower for any road speed anyway so the transmission will shift earlier than stock all things considered.

For all intents and purposes, correcting for tire size and leaving the 3-4 and 4-3 shift parameters the same as stock would probably work just fine. Between us, another well-known tuner doesn't change the shift points at all for his "economy" tunes. The stock settings with a more sensitive APP makes the transmission shift early too.

Thanks for your work and incite on this.. I sent you an email too. After I saw where it was shifting I wondered about the anticipated shift setting that starts at 1500RPM. Also even with the tire size corrected it still takes more torque to turn the larger diameter tires regardless of the speed. So it was not the Torque reduction issue right as the low throttle position wouldn't put excessive torque to the tranny in the first place...
Ok looked at the difference in upshift and its about 6mph difference.. I could just shift the lower half to stock and let the second half of the throttle from 512 to 1023 slide back to the lower shift points and see how that does...
Did you end up removing or changing the TC lockup or relock delay?

[cleatus12r]

DJ,

You have mail.

[soutthpaw]

Guess what? I and now got the shortcut keys down for copying and pasting along with changing the views etc....
I ordered a bluetooth keypad on ebay last week so I will start to play with the 3D maps once I get that...
I did chat with Bill a bit about using the 3D maps but really haven't got a good understanding of them yet... The 3rd value is throwing me off. usually the X and Y are not labeled as to what they are and sometimes i can tell as its obvious but other times I am not sure what one of the 3 value are referring to. I usually make sense of 2 of them... X and Z most of the time but the Y value throw me....
Anyway I started modifing my shift strategies while the kids were playing at the Y today

Got your email... Thanks, will look at it shortly and overlay it on the new shift values I did this morning and see how it compares

[cleatus12r]

Originally Posted by cleatus12r

DJ,




You do know how to quickly copy and paste table data from one project to another don't you? It's a lifesaver while loading stock data back to a modified table.

Oh, and while you're at it, I didn't change any of the 4-3 relock parameters in yours....I wanted to see what you thought about it the way it is right now first.

[soutthpaw]

Cool we are pretty close on shift points. I went slightly higher on 1-2 cuz I figure you are in first gear such a short time the fuel savings is negligible.. I see you added the Torque Reduction so that will be interesting to try... I am gonna make half a dozen or so similar maps then load them all and try them out..
Oh I just figured out the maps, F6 will show the name of the X and Y parameters now i get it:idea: just went on!

[cleatus12r]

If you go to the toolbar and "view" then "options" you can select how each (maps and functions) are displayed when they are first opened.