Custom Tuning 6.0's ? Any CNG / Propane Tuners out there

jgw50 · #1 Tue, January 12th, 2010, 08:00 PM

Hello everyone, PHP NOOB here looking for some info..

I have a 6.0 and really want to do some custom tunes to run CNG (compressed natural gas). In order to do it right, I need to reduce the amount of diesel going into the engine and replace it with CNG. Not interested in the huge power gains possible with CNG injection, just want to replace some diesel use with CNG use as it is $.90/gallon here in Utah and I already have all the CNG stuff from gasoline conversions I have done.

I know how to control the CNG, and have messed with some standalone ECU's but everything I read here talks about 7.3's. Does the minotaur work on 6.0's It seems like it is very similar to the Commando stuff, and I think it will work on a 6.0. From what i've read, i'd much rather go with a minotaur if possible.

I've got a 2006 Ford F350 6.0 PSD Auto with an Edge CTS that i'd like to be able to use to put my custom CNG flashes on.

***cleatus12r*** · #2 Wed, January 13th, 2010, 08:28 AM

Sorry but the Minotaur Automotive Tuning Software (tm) is not sold by PHP for 6.0L tuning.

I know that the CTS uses a different programming structure than what Bill has used in the past but he will have the capability to program it. As far as future releases to the public, I think it's anyone's guess at this time.

***cleatus12r*** · #3 Thu, January 14th, 2010, 07:34 AM

I can't very well say what is what with 6.0L tuning. I have Sniper Delta Force for the 7.3L and would highly recommend not getting it because (and keep in mind that this is for the 7.3L) it is so incomplete it's not funny.

Not knowing what to tune in/out for CNG, I can't help you with any tuning data but I can say that nothing should need to be changed as far as fuel rates go. Injection timing maybe just a bit but the fuel rates should only need to be changed by your right foot (less accelerator input for any given load/engine speed).

I could be way off, too.

***907DAVE*** · #4 Thu, January 14th, 2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleatus12r

Not knowing what to tune in/out for CNG, I can't help you with any tuning data but I can say that nothing should need to be changed as far as fuel rates go. Injection timing maybe just a bit but the fuel rates should only need to be changed by your right foot (less accelerator input for any given load/engine speed).

That was my thought as well, with the CNG on, you would not need to push as hard on the pedal to maintain speed.

How much would timing matter?

***cleatus12r*** · #5 Thu, January 14th, 2010, 12:49 PM

My thought with the injection timing is in regards to flame travel in the cylinder. CNG's rate of combustion is faster than that of diesel fuel. Once the diesel fuel ignites, the CNG will spontaneously ignite as well but it will burn faster, possibly creating a pressure spike large enough to cause damage.

Think of it this way. In some instances, the injection event is commanded 30+ degrees BTDC. It doesn't always happen there and ignition doesn't always occur instantaneously, but there is some mad advance there. If you are running straight LPG or CNG in a gasoline vehicle, the ignition timing will be set near stock levels of 8-12 degrees (maybe just a little more advanced). If you're igniting the CNG at 20+ degrees BTDC, it's going to combust, expand, and be done burning by the time the piston reaches TDC.

Now the actual concentration of CNG per unit of ambient air is much lower than that of what a dedicated CNG-fueled vehicle will see so the detrimental effects of CNG will probably be realized only when a whole boat load of the gas is used.

These are just a couple thoughts I have.

jgw50 · #6 Fri, January 15th, 2010, 08:08 AM

Awesome info guys. I've been reading as much as I can on the ECU logic and agree that I could just pump CNG in and the computer would compensate. I'd like to take it a step further however as I do not want to be pushing this motor.

So, my plan is to try and creat a Diesel tune that will reduce the amount of diesel given for a certain load / RPM.
I'll then create a map in my CNG ecu to replace that lost diesel. I'll also look into the timing issue and definitely try and stay on top of knock. Here's an interesting article on diesel cylinder pressure vs. CNG cylinder pressure.

http://www.scipub.org/fulltext/ajeas/ajeas21212-216.pdf

***cleatus12r*** · #7 Fri, January 15th, 2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgw50

Awesome info guys. I've been reading as much as I can on the ECU logic and agree that I could just pump CNG in and the computer would compensate. I'd like to take it a step further however as I do not want to be pushing this motor.

So, my plan is to try and creat a Diesel tune that will reduce the amount of diesel given for a certain load / RPM.
I'll then create a map in my CNG ecu to replace that lost diesel. I'll also look into the timing issue and definitely try and stay on top of knock. Here's an interesting article on diesel cylinder pressure vs. CNG cylinder pressure.

http://www.scipub.org/fulltext/ajeas/ajeas21212-216.pdf

I don't know what this "compensation" you're describing would be.

"replace that lost diesel"?

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but do you know how a diesel engine operates?

"So, my plan is to try and creat a Diesel tune that will reduce the amount of diesel given for a certain load / RPM."

I can't help but think that you may be confusing gasoline engine operation with diesel engine operation.