A Political Statement

[ChuckD]

This is interesting.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10103521/ its got well over a million votes.

[Jackpine]

Very good, Chuck. I voted NO and was happy to see I was with the majority. I see the motto as accepting a "higher power", not "owned" by any one religion, which, as far as I can tell, is how the original framers of the Constitution intended the "Separation of Church and State" clause.

Nations seem to get into trouble when a particular religion decides its ideals MUST be adopted by all citizens, and then has the political clout to enforce that concept.

(We're having fun in this thread, aren't we)?

- Jack

[ChuckD]

True Jack. In other forums people would be going off and calling each other names and what not. Maybe Corey could add another section and call it Town Hall.

[Corey Cohron RIP]

KUDOS to everyone who has posted in and/or just read this thread! It's awesome that people can have a political discussion without resorting to being a-holes.

I, personally, have found that it's best for me to remain on the periphery of political discussions. Though I have definite opinions, it would be like me jumping into a diesel discussion. I know just enough to make myself look like an idiot.

I would have absolutely no problem creating a new section for more discussion -- or even a generic rant or two -- as long as everyone could remain civil. Unfortunately, due to the anonymity provided by the computer screen, people often feel that it's okay to be intentionally cruel and to belittle others. We're not going to play that game here (it happens too often on other forums!), so if it ever got out of hand, we'd have to step in. For those of you who've never checked out the FORUM DECORUM thread, here's the highlights:

We have one rule here: RESPECT

• Who? Everyone! Members, Moderators, Our Dealers, Other Vendors and Manufacturers, and even the Administrators (that's us! ) -- even if we don't like 'em (you know who you are!), you can't bash 'em
• What? Other people's ideas and their right to post about them
• Where? On the Forum, of course -- but really, it should apply EVERYWHERE (the world sure would be a nicer place if everyone would try it!)
• When? All the time-- especially when you don't agree with another member
• How? By avoiding rude language and by not attacking other members, vendors, or products. The Golden Rule applies here, folks
• Why? So that everyone feels comfortable posting and so that this forum remains a fun place for everyone to hang out!

Please know that everyone on here has been AMAZING, and I love the sense of community that we share. I don't think anybody on here would have a problem maintaining civility -- even in a heated "discussion." It's possible to get one's point across without turning from Dr. Jekyll into Mr. Hyde.

Would anybody else use a thread called "Town Hall" where anything goes? Opinions, please. I need opinions!

[Jackpine]

I kind of thought "Conversation Pit" was pretty good. You set it up so we could discuss anything that popped into our little brains, and I took advantage of the opportunity.

- Jack

[soutthpaw]

Very thoughtful and well presented post Jack. I agree with you. Nice to see a goo political discussion. Other forums I read or posted just became matches between a dozen or so far right members of the forum and everyone else....
you are right a good leader is what we needed. look at Reagen, he was able to cross party lines and get the most electoral votes 489/525 in his 2 terms of any president in history. I was not old enough then, But I would have voted for him. he did a lot of good for the US and the World.
Myself I am an independent but lean to the left on most issues. However there just was no comparison of the leadership abilities between this past election's candidates.. Obama is a Very Charismatic orator and leader. (just like Reagan) He may not solve all the problems but he will definitely improve US relations around the world that Bush destroyed. He is promising better support and care for Veterans too. Also many benefits that the right in this country enjoy are due left sponsored actions and legislation.
It seems that many people have the view that you can only have liberal or conservative ideas. It me that people name call "bleeding heart liberal" etc. if you support Obama or voice even a hint of a non-conservative opinion...
I Happen to supports issues on both sides of the fence.... Ok i'm gonna get off my and crawl back into :closet:

[ChuckD]

Yeah the pit will work. One thing I don't like about the state of AZ is when you register to vote you have to register to a party. Thus you can only vote for that party in the primary. Even though you may like a person from a different party you can't vote for them. I feel you should be able to vote for whoever you want to vote for. I blew their minds when I said I was an American and that was the only label that would be put on me. They keep saying you have to, you have to. I said they only thing that I have to do is pay taxes and die. I know I can be an #$@ sometimes, but all this labeling is rediculus.

[Power Hungry]

Can't you register as "Independent"?? Seems like that would make things easier.

[Jackpine]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

Can't you register as "Independent"?? Seems like that would make things easier.

You can register that way Bill, but I think that only gives you a choice of which ballot to use in the primaries. So, if you wanted to help select a Democratic candidate for President, but choose, say, a Republican for the Legislature, you couldn't.

- Jack

[Sburn]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

The whole issue of term limits is a very mixed bag, isn't it? On one hand, by not limiting them, we risk reelecting some very corrupt, but "clever" politicians over and over again, because, to be honest, many people don't really do much research before voting. On the other hand though, if you get someone GOOD in office, you don't really want that person kicked out just when he/she has finally learned the ropes and is able to contribute. And, with seniority comes power and influence - and from a good representative, that's a good thing.
- Jack

Here in CA we've had term limits for a while now. What has happened is that the same career politicians just end up finding a different office to run for when they term out. State Senators term out and run for Assembly, termed-out Senators and Assemblypersons run for State Controller or Insurance Comissioner, termed out whatevers run for Mayor as a way of staying in the public's eye as a prelude for running for Governor or National office....Wash, Rinse, Repeat... Different tree -- same monkeys.

Meanwhile, the non-elected career bureaucrats tend to actually run things, since they get a new boss (elected or appointed) every few years. So you end up with stuff like the CARB (California Air Resources Board i.e., smog police) that have no accountability to the voters.