[Power Hungry]

Here is a tuning challenge that was done YEARS ago! A number of companies were given a box code and told to make the "best" program possible. Obviously the data is no longer pertinent, but it is interesting to see what was going on back in 2001 vs. what's capable today.

Set 1 (Click to enlarge... make sure to zoom the image)


Set 2 (Click to enlarge... make sure to zoom the image)


One thing I was talking with Corey about just last week was a tuning challenge that went something like this...

1. A panel of 3 to 5 independent judges will be selected. Since some of the testing is subjective, all contestants must agree to the judging panel.
2. An undisclosed vehicle, modified or unmodified, will be provided.
3. Anywhere from 2 to 4 hours to tune. Less time is more challenging. This will be at the discretion of the judging panel.
4. Using Dyno or Street tuning is optional, depending on the level of challenge the judging panel feels is adequate.
5. Must start from scratch. Absolutely no prebuilt files or tables.
6. May use any tuning equipment or software desired, so long as it does not violate requirement 5.
7. Contestants will be judged based on a point system, with categories as follows (parameters and scoring are obviously subject to change depending on what the judging panel feels is important):
   1. 5 - Cranking (Smoothness)
   2. 5 - Idle (Smoothness, Stability)
   3. 5 - Throttle Repsonse (Crisp, Laggy, or Jerky)
   4. 5 - Noise (Rattly or Quiet)
   5. 10 - Smoke (Tip-in and under boost)
   6. 10 - Shifting (Smooth, Aggressive, Banging)
   7. 20 - Power Output (HP and Torque)
   8. 20 - Drage Race Times/Speed
   9. 20 - Overall drivability
8. First person to window a block... LOSES! (And has to buy the beer)

Obviously, this is an on-site type of challenge and would ideally be used to help promote a certain degree of camaraderie between all the tuners involved as well as provide an opportunity for the big tuners in the industry to show their level of talent and commitment to providing the PSD community with the safest and most reliable tuning available.

The concept and format of this tuning challenge is copyrighted by Power Hungry Performance, although we are happy to let anyone use it as long as we receive a little acknowledgment for the idea. I mean... let's be fair.

This challenge was set up for diesels as there are a much larger number of diesel tuners out there than there are gas tuners. However, this could also be applied to gas vehicles as well.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Or am I off my nut?

(For reference, this was posted at 11:31pm, Eastern Time on August 15, 2009.)

[cleatus12r]

The Bank's Ottomind on the first set and the unlisted one in the second set (2nd down right column) look to be the most fun to drive.

Holy peaky torque "curve", Batman! Those Diablosport programs are horrible!

I'm down! I won't win any cook-offs though.

BD and Dyno Sources look really good too.

[Power Hungry]

In case you didn't know, all the Dyno Sources chips were done by us.

[cleatus12r]

Nope, I didn't know that. I do now. That would explain the really nice horsepower curve that program has.

I think it's a sweet idea. There is no way that I would place in a few of those catagories.......since I'm not trying to (and hence have not worked on yet) make utmost powah or drag strip programs. Driveability and transmission shifting only for me as of this moment in time.

[Power Hungry]

Originally Posted by cleatus12r

Nope, I didn't know that. I do now. That would explain the really nice horsepower curve that program has.

I think it's a sweet idea. There is no way that I would place in a few of those catagories.......since I'm not trying to (and hence have not worked on yet) make utmost powah or drag strip programs. Driveability and transmission shifting only for me as of this moment in time.

See, but that's the point. Maybe the way I have everything scored isn't correct based on the needs of the average driver. Do you have any suggestion on how to change the scoring so that it would fit your situation and needs better?

[cleatus12r]

I try to represent my demographic more than what seems to be popular by "internet forum standards". I've got guys here that haul a lot of weight. I think that I've made programs for one truck that doesn't haul anything and it's a manual anyway so it doesn't qualify for "shift feel".

My idea of "good programming" is way different than most other peoples' idea of good programming. Therefore, the judges' concept of what I would do probably isn't considered "good". You know all about the "lemming effect"; and I haven't found any particular tunes that do what I consider "100% acceptable" from anyone else. I haven't had the opportunity to try any of yours short of the old Evolution ones and the Fuel Sipper that "soutthpaw" (DJ) has for his Excursion, but I have tried a lot of different programming. I guess I have a 60, 80, and 100 that you sent with the Romulator....maybe I should actually try them out. I assume that they rock because I did look at them a bit and by the looks of things, they should be very user-friendly save for some shift strategy characteristics.

Here are some of my requirements:

1. Shift feel. Obviously, the shift should be quick. I don't want it to be firm or jerky. Stock feel is good with less "burn time". Torque converter clutch lockup should feel only slightly firmer than stock. Most aftermarket tuning is WAY too aggressive during shifts. I don't like 100% torque during a shift....75% is more like it under light loads. 70% when loaded. (Unless it's an 02-03 truck then the flare gets too bad.) TCC lockup rate is always too aggressive.

2. APP feel. Touchy is bad. Rough roads, trailering livestock/horses, and a more sensitive than stock pedal are a bad combination. A stock feel to the go-pedal is a must. The sensitivity of the accelerator pedal is far too high with most any aftermarket programming although your FS program is a lot easier to handle than another vendor's economy program (which my wife and brother absolutely love for some reason). The Evo programs aren't useable and neither was my Superchips programmer. The Western Diesel chip was pretty good, but was way too hot and caused surge like a mad chief.

3. Late shifts under light acceleration. Getting on an on-ramp with horses requires care. They get trailer-sour pretty easy if the ride isn't very much fun. However, light acceleration causes really early upshifts. Once the truck shifts, RPM drops considerably, and boost is gone........ By keeping the RPM up above 1800-2000 RPM after an upshift, boost can be maintained. This also goes back to requirement #1....no harsh shifts, even when they're late. I personally shift manually most of the time, but not everyone wants to manually shift an automatic...that's why they got an automatic-equipped truck.

4. Smoke. Everyone loves it, right? I hate it when my truck looks like this: Unfortunately, it makes for a lot forum complaints when there isn't enough belching of soot and it's one thing that I try to stay away from. A lot of people that I talk to and have made programs for don't need more than a 40-60 HP increase. That keeps the smoke low and the EGTs happy while they tow. Besides, one guy tows a heavy, bright white equipment trailer.....and he's always left a big black soot trail on it. I fixed that for him since the only way he could keep the RPMs up during an upshift with his other programming was in a higher-HP program.

I don't understand the one tune for everything mentality of this challenge (driveability, highest power, fastest E.T./trap speed). Most companies offer a chip that allows at least 6 tunes. I say use all of the positions. Make tunes that do one thing well. For example, a tune that works in hilly terrain and will safely tow 15-20K lbs. while keeping the engine/transmission happy. Of course, a drivable everyday tune is nice too. Maybe two of them. Then get into the HP tunes that melt the dyno rollers. They can be streetable too but comfortable shift feel and shift points shouldn't be scored as highly with these tunes.

Holy cow. I didn't realize I wrote a novel. Oops.

Feel free to or at this post. I'm not one to hold anything back if I feel strongly about it and I won't get offended. I know what I like and it usually isn't for the masses.

Thanks, Bill!

[Power Hungry]

I agree with the "one size fits all" issue you mentioned. There really isn't any such animal. That's why we do the number of programs we do... to be able to fit the specific need for a particular application.

Obviously, this was only an initial concept and would need to be refined in order to make it pertinent and fair.

I love your feedback, by the way. It seems to illustrate the point that not everyone out there is looking for 8 zillion HP. Some folks just want to be able to drive their truck.

[cleatus12r]

Thanks. It's not every day that someone gets to make a difference. However, that's where people with your abilities come in. But when I get a call from someone saying that "So and so said I should call and you'd hook me up." it feels pretty good.

[Sburn]

A panel of 3 to 5 independent judges will be selected. Since some of the testing is subjective, all contestants must agree to the judging panel.

OK, but judges are "blinded". A judge won't know who did the particular tune they are testing. For street testing part, every judges uses the same road course.

An undisclosed vehicle, modified or unmodified, will be provided.

I'd say dead stock, since there's always a baseline or control to compare to.

May use any tuning equipment or software desired, so long as it does not violate requirement 5.

Wideband is OK, right? Or, should it be NO mods to the vehicle whatsoever except for connecting to the DLC?

5 - Cranking (Smoothness)
5 - Idle (Smoothness, Stability)
5 - Throttle Repsonse (Crisp, Laggy, or Jerky)
5 - Noise (Rattly or Quiet)
10 - Smoke (Tip-in and under boost)
10 - Shifting (Smooth, Aggressive, Banging)
20 - Power Output (HP and Torque)
20 - Drage Race Times/Speed
20 - Overall drivability

Noise, smoke, and maybe cranking don't apply to gassers, so spread those points out with a slant to drivability.

How about a hauling or trailer test? We're talking about trucks only, right?

I'm less in favor of the dyno test results, since it's easy to rack up the HP/TQ numbers at the expense of drivability, so less weighting of the dyno against the drivability.

[Longshot270]

I definitely agree with cleatus12r on his idea of programming, good points to think about for people that tow livestock. Horses get trailer shy REAL quick. If I used my truck for hauling any kind of load I would for sure go with his programming (just my opinion. I use my dad's f250 for that kind of stuff and havent towed anything that 97 7.3 couldn't handle, even on scary climbs. )

I also agree with sburn's opinions on the tuning event, most trucks are not made for drag racing. Thats just the easiest way to compare power. I would keep the 'sprint' races but also do something like a sled pull to show off the torque gains.
*back to livestock, that could be another test, if you can go 50 miles with a rodeo bull or horse and not get killed when you unload then your tuning is good!