This is interesting.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10103521/ its got well over a million votes.

Very good, Chuck. I voted NO and was happy to see I was with the majority. I see the motto as accepting a "higher power", not "owned" by any one religion, which, as far as I can tell, is how the original framers of the Constitution intended the "Separation of Church and State" clause.

Nations seem to get into trouble when a particular religion decides its ideals MUST be adopted by all citizens, and then has the political clout to enforce that concept.

(We're having fun in this thread, aren't we)? :thumbs up yellow:

- Jack

True Jack. In other forums people would be going off and calling each other names and what not. Maybe Corey could add another section and call it Town Hall.

I kind of thought "Conversation Pit" was pretty good. You set it up so we could discuss anything that popped into our little brains, and I took advantage of the opportunity.

- Jack

Excellent post
 

Very thoughtful and well presented post Jack. I agree with you. Nice to see a goo political discussion. Other forums I read or posted just became :horsepoop: matches between a dozen or so far right members of the forum and everyone else....
you are right a good leader is what we needed. look at Reagen, he was able to cross party lines and get the most electoral votes 489/525 in his 2 terms of any president in history. I was not old enough then, But I would have voted for him. he did a lot of good for the US and the World.
Myself I am an independent but lean to the left on most issues. However there just was no comparison of the leadership abilities between this past election's candidates.. Obama is a Very Charismatic orator and leader. (just like Reagan) He may not solve all the problems but he will definitely improve US relations around the world that Bush destroyed. He is promising better support and care for Veterans too. Also many benefits that the right in this country enjoy are due left sponsored actions and legislation.
It seems that many people have the view that you can only have liberal or conservative ideas. It :cursin: me that people name call "bleeding heart liberal" etc. if you support Obama or voice even a hint of a non-conservative opinion...
I Happen to supports issues on both sides of the fence.... Ok i'm gonna get off my :soapbox: and crawl back into :closet: :cool_beans:

Yeah the pit will work. One thing I don't like about the state of AZ is when you register to vote you have to register to a party. Thus you can only vote for that party in the primary. Even though you may like a person from a different party you can't vote for them. I feel you should be able to vote for whoever you want to vote for. I blew their minds when I said I was an American and that was the only label that would be put on me. They keep saying you have to, you have to. I said they only thing that I have to do is pay taxes and die. I know I can be an #$@ sometimes, but all this labeling is rediculus.

Can't you register as "Independent"?? Seems like that would make things easier.

You can register that way Bill, but I think that only gives you a choice of which ballot to use in the primaries. So, if you wanted to help select a Democratic candidate for President, but choose, say, a Republican for the Legislature, you couldn't.

- Jack

Here in CA we've had term limits for a while now. What has happened is that the same career politicians just end up finding a different office to run for when they term out. State Senators term out and run for Assembly, termed-out Senators and Assemblypersons run for State Controller or Insurance Comissioner, termed out whatevers run for Mayor as a way of staying in the public's eye as a prelude for running for Governor or National office....Wash, Rinse, Repeat... Different tree -- same monkeys.

Meanwhile, the non-elected career bureaucrats tend to actually run things, since they get a new boss (elected or appointed) every few years. So you end up with stuff like the CARB (California Air Resources Board i.e., smog police) that have no accountability to the voters.

Yes - excellent point! The new elected official comes in has to take a while being non-productive while he learns things, then, he has to "reinvent the wheel", since he doesn't know why his idea didn't work before and finally, when things don't work out, the career people put everything back the way it was. (And 2 or 4 more years have gone by).

We have some of that problem in the active duty military. And it was recognized as it pertained to units deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. A decision was made to not rotate personnel in and out of units to minimize this effect.

Non-active duty units like the Guard and the Reserve, do better here I think. They have a true "corporate memory" that really makes them more efficient as a unit than active duty units.

- Jack