voltage drop, Gryphon resetting?
 

I live in Canada and its been around -20 for a few days now. Ive noticed that when i start my truck, the Gryphon thinks it just got plugged in and displays the HEX file... is this anything to be concerned about? Should i unplug the programmer until it warms up a bit?

battery voltage
 

I would also check the pin connectors at the OBDII connection and make sure they grip the plug on the Gryphon connector very well. When temps drop connectors contract and sometimes will make poor connections, then as temp rises the connection is remade as the connector expands. This isnt uncommon in some connectionns in cars. The material used in electrical connectors can move quite a bit with temperature changes. Worth a check, Jim

That's fantastic advice! :clap:These are things you don't think about when you live this far south.

Almost killed my battery couple days ago...-43 and not being plugged in will do that. plugged the charger onto it and got it fired up. The Gryphon screen would not display until truck warmed up. Thought to myself....weak battery=tunes lost.:weeping: when truck warmed up, went into menu and seen they were still there:2thumbs: This little box is tough.

Its been a little warmer around here so i havent had the issue. Ive got the truck in the dealer right now because the 4wd doesnt operate properly. Ill keep and eye on the battery, the truck is only a year old so it should be ok...

thanks all!!!

One thing I DO know, Northern, is that a weak or dead battery will not destroy your tunes, either what's loaded in the PCM or in the programmable memory of the Gryphon.

Consider: you can take the Gryphon out of the vehicle for extended periods (which is equivalent to having no battery) and, you can take the battery out of the truck with the same results (although the PCM has to relearn its idle strategy and maybe a couple of other things I think after an extended period with no "keep alive" power).

The technology in both the Gryphon and the PCM is similar (maybe the same) as what you see in USB "thumb drives". Now, if you were to zap any of these with high voltage, :eek: all bets are off.

- Jack

I wouldn't use it as a wheel chock either! :smiley_roll1:

You are correct, Jack. Both the PCM and the Gryphon (as well as pretty much any other programmer on the market) use what is call "Flash" memory. This is the same stuff you find in thumb drives, digital cameras, and about a zillion other things.

Here's a quick rundown of Flash Memory:

Flash memory is really cool because it is BIG on storage, has a very small footprint (a 8GB Micro-SD is about the size of your pinkie nail), and is CHEAP to produce. It is non-volatile which means that unlike RAM (high speed memory used in most PCs), it doesn't need power to store the data. The data gets "burned" onto the storage grid. When you need to make a change, you can then "Flash" it to erase it and re-write it. It also has a LONG retention rate (on the order of years).

The drawbacks are it is SLOW (compare to RAM, anyway) and you can't erase and re-write 1 byte at a time. You have to erase the memory in blocks (4K, 8K, 64K, etc) which means you have to be able to copy a whole block of data elsewhere, erase the block, and write it back with the change included. Having to read and write 65,536 bytes to make 1 change is not fast. This is why 1 GB of RAM is roughly 50 times the size (footprint) of 1GB of Flash.

So as I said, most (if not all) programmers as well as all re-flashable use Flash Memory because of the reliability of the data retention. Remove the unit? No problem. Batter is dead? No problem.

I will mention that because of the way the data is written in Flash memory, this is why we DO NOT RECOMMEND programming in cold weather. If the flash temp is below spec, the data may not write correctly resulting in data errors.

See? Learned something new today! :2thumbs:

Just a side note, if ya'll are replacing your batteries, might not hurt when you purchase a new one to get one with more Cold Cranking Amps. That's probably all they sell up in Canada, lol. Was actually really difficult for me to find one with extra cold cranking amps down here in South Georgia!

If the Gryphon shuts off and comes back on (with hex code showing) while running at highway speeds, is that an indication of weak battery as well, or do I have other issues?

This sounds to me like a power interruption to the Gryphon. Maybe you have poor connections at the OBDII port or in the cable where it plugs into the Gryphon. Have you checked that these are both secure? Maybe you could kind of unplug and replug both connectors with the power off to "burnish" the contacts and then, before plugging the cable back into the OBDII port, turn the ignition ON so that the unit will reinitialize properly?

I'm assuming here that your alternator and battery are both good. What do you see on the Gryphon when you monitor charging voltage? I see something in the neighborhood of 14.1 volts when driving during the day and not towing my trailer with its two additional batteries (that drag the voltage down).

- Jack

When I checked the OBDII connection it did appear to be tight but I'll try unplugging and replugging it as well as remove it from the pod and make sure I have a good connection there as well.The battery gauge seems to be showing everything is charging but I'll set up my Gryphon to monitor voltage in the morning.

It has happened once or twice before but tonight it happened 5 or 6 times in a 150 km trip. I don't know if it's relevant but I have only noticed this happening at night.

I have a 300 km trip tomorrow so it will give me a chance to see what happens. Thanks Jack, appreciate your input.

You may want to change one of the display parameters to Battery Voltage, just to make sure. It does sound like a connection issue though.

Keep us posted.

Checked all my connections and everything seemed to be fully plugged in. Set up the voltage monitor and it shows 14.4 volts (plus or minus a tenth).

On the first leg of my trip this morning my Gryphon quit twice and, as before, it came back on showing my hex code. On the return trip this evening it never missed a beat. There doesn't seem to be any repeated series of events that causes it to happen (ie; road vibration, acceleration or braking). I'm at a loss:shrug: to figure it out as there doesn't seem to be anything mechanical wrong(connecetions, etc) and the voltage seems to be stable. Something internal perhaps, like a cold solder joint?

In any event, the unit seems to be operating and is only slightly annoying at night when it goes out and comes back on .....(I know, I know.....quit driving at night :smiley_roll1: ).

I'll keep an eye on it and see how it goes.:howdy:

It almost HAS to be something like a cold solder joint or loose connection in the power input circuit doesn't it? I've never taken my case apart, but would not be afraid to do it for a quick visual inspection of the internal connections.

Then again, it may or may not be something you'd feel comfortable in fixing if you found the problem. I think though, your unit is under warranty with PHP, so my advice would be to ship it to them and let Bill check it out. You can leave the tune on your truck, since the unit is only acting like a monitor now, so you wouldn't lose out on any performance gains it's provided while it's in transit.

I cannot imagine any kind of malfunction in your truck that would cut the power momentarily to the OBDII port. I don't even think any of the wiring to that port comes close to anything that moves (like the tilt wheel) that could cause wear and tear. I'm beginning to strongly suspect the OBD cable and/or the unit itself.

In fact, I remember now one other instance of a PHP customer who had to have his OBD cable replaced, so I know they can be faulty. I'd talk to Bill or Corey about this. I'm sure you'll be able to work something out.

And - maybe if you just turned the ignition on, but left the engine off and wiggled wires, into the back of the OBD port, the OBD cable at the plug, and the cable where it plugs into the Gryphon, you might be able to reproduce the problem and figure out where the fault is.

Hope all my "thinking out loud/rambling thought processes" have given you some ideas! :o

- Jack

Thanks Jack, all good ideas. I'll try the ignition on and wiggling test over the weekend and see what transpires. I'm a little hesitant to open up the case and mess with anything while there is a warranty in force so I'll wait on the maestro on that procedure. It seems to me that I remember reading about a bad cable on one of the forums. I'll have to do some digging and try and find it. Maybe the symptoms ar the same.

Hopefully it won't have to go back ...... I have no idea what hoops I'll have to jump thru to handle the customs aspect. Anyone been thru sending an item for repair thru customs?

Some things to look at...

1) Check the cable. Without wiggling the connector, try to flex the cable from one end to the other and see if the may be a break in one of the wires. Of course, this is not a broken wire that you would see, but the unit may cut out if wiggled the right way.

2) Check for other devices on the Power Point or cigarette lighter. These use the same circuit and may be causing a current draw that could cause the programmer to reboot.

3) Tap on the programmer and OBD-II connector. If there is a loose connection in either of these, you might see a glitch. Don't tap on the display... It's glass. :doh:

4) Reach behind the OBD-II connector and wiggle the wires from behind. You might have a bad connection there as well.

If all else fails, the unit is under warranty and we'll be happy to replace it. In MOST cases, warranty repair should be exempt form brokerage fees or duties. Just be prepared for it to take some time to travel.

As for leaving the truck in the level, ideally that would be fine. However, if I have to replace the board then you'll get a new unit and your truck would be stuck in a level. This is a situation we would certainly like to avoid it if at all possible. :D

Keep us up-to-date and if it continues, let us know so we can get the unit replaced.

Take care.

What? (Thought there was a BS flag in here someplace, but, oh well).

Yes, the cigar lighter lighter fuse controls power to the OBD port (one of Ford's better ideas, I suppose), but, c'mon - a fuse is either good or bad. I've NEVER in my life heard of an "intermittent" fuse!

Maybe, just maybe, the fuse connections could be corroded so there's intermittent contact or they possibly could be distorted which MIGHT cause the same symptom, but really!

OK, I've probably overreacted and I shouldn't even post this. However, I doubt any of us want to be surrounded by "yesmen", and, as you can see, I have too much respect for both of you to be one of those.

And, if you can convince me I'm out to lunch on this, I'll humbly apologize! :bow:

But, I sure liked all of Bill's ideas. And Corey, except for the fact that the unit usually works, your idea would be the FIRST thing to check!

OK, tell me to shut up! :'(

- Jack

Thanks for all the great ideas. You guys rock :2thumbs: I think I do have a cell phone charger plugged in the rear power point. I'll check out the other things this weekend.... hopefully we'll get a day warm enough to do anything.

I'll not get involved in the lighter fuse issue as I can see many hours of heated debate :evillol:

And, I'm apologizing right now for the tone of my last post. It was unkind, and Corey, I'm sorry! I still think I'm right about the fuse issue, but I could have found a better way to say it.

Told you I'm not "nice"! :o

(Oh heck - go ahead and change the fuse! It can't hurt anything!) :shrug:

- Jack

So, the fuse contacts could be distorted by the electrical draw! I DO humbly apologize! :bow: :bow: (Rats! You're the fastest editor in the Free World, now I have to look for flowers, jewelry, or find some cash). :'(

My thought in changing the fuse was to fix any "hidden" problems.

Just so you'll all know, Corey and I have PM'd back and forth on this issue this morning and I'm eating a big serving of crow right now. Fortunately, she's a forgiving soul in addition to being "Groovy"!

- Jack

i can feel the love here:joy:

Yea, group hugs all around! :grouphug:

- Jack

I believe my gryphon must pull a surprising amount of current even when it's in sleep mode. It is affecting my trucks ability to start in very cold weather after sitting a while. Battery has been basically dead a couple times now and it should NOT have been.
It does seem like this factory battery is a pathetic POS though.........I think it only has 500cca.

Chris, you might want to look at this thread: http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...read.php?t=259 In post #4 I talk about what I discovered regarding current draw on the battery by my 2005 truck. If the battery is weak or it's very cold, I think the symptoms would be exaggerated.

- Jack

One thing that people forget is that as voltage drops, current draw goes up. This means that as the battery falls below 12v, the current draw form peripheral devices goes up and causes the battery to discharge even faster. I don't have any data on the slew rate of the discharge vs. time, but suffice to say that it becomes quite aggressive as the voltage falls.

thanks for the info Jack and Bill............I am obviously a victim of this. My truck sat for a week (I was down south) at -30 degrees celsius.........when I got back and tried to start truck......click, click, click - no juice!
I guess I gotta unplug programmer next time or buy a much bigger battery!

You might also think about a battery tender for your truck if it is parked where you could keep it plugged in. I have one now and have not had any trouble since using it.

- Jack

They're really cool little gadgets for sure. I use one with my motorcycle in the winter. They do just what they say, they charge your battery if it's low and then they monitor the voltage in your battery and give it a little trickle of juice when it needs a boost. There's a lead that you attach to the battery and tuck out of the way that plugs into the unit when you're parked. I have mine running through the frame of my bike under the seat pan and it pops out right in front of the rear fender. The plug is about the size of two Sharpie caps. They work great!

http://www.batterytender.com/

Well actually Jack I was parked at an airport parking lot and there was no outlet to plug it in. It is very rare that my truck ever since more than a day or two.

You'll NEVER sound stupid (unlike me), Corey! :o Here's a link to the page that describes the one I've got: http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_2 The nice thing about them is that they reduce the charging voltage so that the battery does not "gas" when it's being "maintained". Trickle charges don't reduce the charging voltage. They also charge the battery VERY slowly - about 1.25 amps, if I remember correctly, so they don't damage it like quick chargers do if the battery needs charging.

Like Cajun said, there's a "quick-connect" plug that makes hooking them up easy as pie. I have it permanently connected to my battery so I can just plug it in when I put my truck in the garage.

Darned thoughtless of the airport not to provide an electrical outlet where you were parked, Chris. :) However, If your truck is driven as often as you say, you should be fine. Mine often sits a long time between drives.

- Jack