Custom Tune Installed
 

Well yesterday I loaded my custom 87 perf. file into the Gryphon. I cant believe how much lag is in the stock tune.. wow memories not missed :cool:. So generally speaking, is there any advice as for what to customize in uploading the tune? I was thinking of only raising the mph limiter, 5200rpm 1-2 gear and 2- gear shifts, 4800rpm 3-4, and 5600 rev limiter. Otherwise since I have a custom filed tune for my truck now it should be alright?

Very impressed with the gain in low end power, cant wait to go make a 0 - 60 run. Thank you Corey for the help in ordering and updating, and thank you Bill for the awesome tune :2thumbs:.

Congrats on getting your tunes!

I know some where around here Jack has posted his settings and over on f150online Bluejay has posted his also. I have yet to put different ones in mine.

Lars

Glad to hear you liking it. I can't wait to get mine. I'm looking forward to getting some more bottom end out of it... heavy truck w/ only 3.55's and a 4.6L, not the best combination for getting off the line.

Darren, unless you know something I don't know (which is VERY possible), the HP and torque are dropping on our engines above 5000 RPM. If you look at your WOT shift points in the custom options menu, I think you'll find that Bill has set the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts near that RPM range. If so, I would not raise them. The 3-4 shift is likely to be lower, possibly around 4500? Again, I would not raise it. I tried raising mine and discovered it seemed to have trouble completing a WOT 3-4 shift, even though my max RPM was 5400.

I also wouldn't raise the max RPM much above 5400 because of TC ballooning, and I like to keep the stress off the transmission as much as possible.

I have my speed limiter set at 110 mph. Net because I really expect to drive that fast, but I DO NOT want it to ever kick in when I'm expecting more speed, as in passing.

lol true. It will be a night and day difference.


I have never heard of those factors before, but glad you mentioned it to me. Thank you Jack. Well so far it sounds like there aren't any reasons to change the settings in the 87 performance tune. Timing and everything should be alright? And spark? ( never messed with spark btw, running stock plugs I really dont want to either ). I haven't gotten the chance to play with it on a back road yet so I dont really know what I would change it to. I'm pretty sure Bluejay is running the rpm sets I was, but he suggested me those when I was on canned level 3 with 93.

I have noticed my idle rpm in gear is pretty low. I believe I noticed this after I first ran the canned Level 3, but it went away. I assume that the 480rpm idle is safe for now and will return to mid 500 or so after new strategies are learned?

sounds sweet, i cant wait for mine to come in!

I don't know about the idle going up after everything is "learned". Mine never idled that low at all. It's always been about 600 RPM (using the dashboard tach), and since it was smooth and things were charging and it didn't want to "creep" with my foot off the brake, I saw no reason to change it. But, 480 RPM IS pretty low. I wonder if it's enough to charge the battery at idle with the lights and accessories on? If not, I'd raise it. Most people have theirs in the 600-650 range.

I saw your post over on f150Online and was a bit puzzled by one member's statement that Bill said to have the max RPM 200 above the WOT shift points. Both Bluejay and I remember him saying 400 above. But, since Bill lives here, he can set us straight. I know 400 above works well for me except in the 3-4 shift, where it needs to be more (which is one reason I have my 3-4 shift down in the 4400-4500 range). When I had that shift point higher, I had to let off on the gas to help it through that shift.

The Edge manual does say put the max RPM 150 above the WOT shift points, but I think that's just plain wrong.

DO NOT raise the spark timing on any of your tunes unless you put in a higher octane gas than the tune was designed for.

Bluejay published the adjustments he did for when he was running canned Edge tunes. Once he got the custom tunes, he's left everything exactly as Bill has set it up except for the tires, he went to bigger ones after ordering his tunes.

- Jack

Well let me better explain the idle issue. Coming to a stop at a slow speed ( 30mph to 5mph ) basically approaching a red light or stop sign, from the Gryphon readout it drops down to near 480 then varies in the low 500 - high 500, then acceleration is perfect, but it seems quite low for an idle in gear. I tried raising the idle before but it only let me increase it to 300rpm? Does that mean 300rpm overall? or 300rpm over the normal 600rpm? I dont understand how this works.

Thanks again Jack for the clarification, much appreciated :thumbs up yellow:

Good questions, Darren - don't stop asking them. I think you're seeing an RPM dip as you apply the brakes while you're still rolling? And, if this is the case, I've not seen it (probably because I haven't looked) and I don't have a clue if this is normal or not. Back in the bad old days we used to have a damper in the carburetor to prevent sudden drops like that (which could stall the engine).

However, it sounds like maybe your idle RPM is fairly normal (in the 600 range) when you are just sitting there stopped? And, when you step on the gas, everything increases normally? If this is the case, then I don't think there's anything to worry about.

About the only thing you need to worry about in the idle setting is: "Is it charging my battery?" If you see voltage (on the Gryphon, which I monitor) in the 13.5-14.0 volt range in idle with lights and accessories on, you're OK. Underdirive pulleys can reduce the alternator output and may require you to increase the idle speed. And, in case you wondered why I monitor voltage, it's because I sometimes pull a trailer with two batteries and a refrigerator on board. So, that's a pretty heavy electrical load.

The adjustment in idle in the Custom Options menu is plus or minus from the "baseline" RPM. So, if Bill set your idle RPM at 600, and you adjusted it to +100, you should see 700 RPM (approximately) when stopped. I say approximately, because I suspect the drag of the TC will have some effect on the final result.

- Jack

I am seeing it during breaking, so I suppose it is normal? Hopefully. I monitor everything like a hawk, even look at my dipstick every week lol. Ok i'll keep that in mind, The most work my battery usually does is play music with the windows down while i'm working outside or at a campfire, nothing real major. I still have the stock battery too, it is indeed a trooper. And thanks for clarifying the idle adjusting for me, thats exactly what I wanted to know. And obviously, returning it to 0 will be normal idle? Jack, thanks yet again for the information, much appreciated. Learning more and more every day.

Yes, Darren, setting the idle in the Custom Options menu back to zero will put it at the stock tune setting that Bill created for you.

There may be an easier way though to get totally back to the "virgin" custom tune - just program it in and completely bypass the Custom Options step. Or, if you want to have a "Previous Settings" file that is mostly "virgin", open the Custom Options menu but DO NOT "Load Previous Settings". If I've got this right, you are now in the process of creating a NEW "Previous Settings" file, but most of the settings are what Bill wrote for you. There are two exceptions though - Tire Size (TS) and Gear Ratio (GR). One or both of those values will now likely be wrong and you'll have to manually set them. Check both and adjust as necessary. Then, scroll to "Done" and let it program. The new Previous Settings file will hold Bill's values and your TS and GR.

As I said though, I don't know if the RPM drop during braking is normal or not, since I don't recall ever looking at it. I don't think I get that big a drop, but I cannot be sure.

And, I'd give Bill's settings a try before trying to "customize" them. After all, it's what you paid him for. Also, if you don't like something in them, it's probably best to discuss that with Bill, so he can fix the root cause, which is different than you putting a "band aid" on it with "Custom Options".

- Jack

That interesting to know. I looked at my settings earlier while I was out, I see Bill has it set 1-2 shift = 5100, 2-3 shift is also 5100, 3-4 shift is 4600, and rev limiter is 5600. I noticed that my avg econ was hanging in the 17 - 22 area, so i calculated some miles and compared my rpm and speed and realized that my tire circumfrence was wrong. It was 2340 something i think, and with the canned tune it was 2550, I did the math in the manual and came up with,, 255 x 70 x 0.02 ( 357 ) 17 x 25.4 ( 431.8 ) both together 788.8, and x that by the 3.1415 and got 2478.0, going to re-program that in the morning.

I'll definitely be testing out his settings. I was just wondering if there was any improvements I should make prior, but since its my truck and I have my driving style, I suppose I am the only one who can answer than question lol.

Darren, please look at my Q & A on the Custom Options menu. Any number you see in TS or GR in the Custom Options menu is likely to be "bogus". Does the 2478 you calculated account for "squish"? If not, subtract about 3% or about 74 mm from it and use that as a starting point.

You ARE NOT going to see the values for GR and TS that Bill put into your program if you open the Custom Options menu! I know this doesn't make sense, but, it's the way the software in the Gryphon functions. If you bypass the Custom Options menu though, you'll load correct TS and GR values (unless you've put in new gears or wheels since your tunes were written).

And, Bill tried to write tunes for you based on his understanding of your needs. I'd give them a chance. Oh, and I think the WOT shift points and max RPM Bill used was fine too.They're only about 100 above my settings and I asked for tunes that would save gas and give me good passing performance, not peal rubber off the tires from a standing start performance.

- Jack

My gear ratio is correct ( 3.73 ) and I thought the 3.1415 was th squish factor. I do not have ( or have access ) to a GPS to verify my speed but I would think I did do the math correctly. I did record a mileage mis count though, from my house to my buds is exactly 3.0miles, I re-set the mileage counter and it told me 3.3 miles so I think the size is a little off and 1200rpm at 47mph cruising in 4th gear and overdrive, I dont believe thats possible, or is it? I'm checking out the Q&A right now.

I've had my truck dynoed........and with my setup, I was still building power at 5000 rpm's.

My power actually topped out around the 5200 mark.......

Hi Chris - The 08's have a somewhat different power curve than earlier models. I think they DO drop off later. I know your engine can develop more power and torque than mine.

Regardless, I really think Bill will set the WOT shifts at the correct points to get you what you want. And, thinking about it a bit more, it makes sense to set the shift point somewhat past the peak HP and torque point because then the shift will bring in the next gear at a higher RPM setting, overall, giving you better acceleration (if WOT acceleration is your bag). This of course means the max RPM has to be set higher too, so that the shift can complete properly.

I DO want the acceleration, but I'm also interested in protecting the transmission, which I feel is a weak link in this truck. (Wish it was a manual).

- Jack

Darren, 3.1415 is pi (It's really closer to 3.1416). When you do this calculation: 17 x 25.4 = 431.8, you get the rim diameter in millimeters. Adding in 255 x 70 x 0.02 = 357 gives the additional diameter of the wheel contributed by the tire, so the overall diameter of the wheel is 788.8 mm. Now multiply by pi to get the unloaded circumference, which is about 2478.1 mm. OK, this is how far a wheel will roll in one turn if you take it off the truck and roll it across your garage by hand.

But, the truck's weight "flattens" the tire, effectively reducing the diameter under load. On the truck, one revolution will cover less distance than it did when off the truck. I've found for my tires that about a 3% reduction in circumference is about right. I suspect this will be close for your tires too, so subtract 3% or 74.3 mm from the unloaded circumference of 2478.1 which gives 2403.7 (round that to 2404).

You can avoid all the math, of course, by just entering your tire size in the "Gear Ratio Calculator" that is one of the tools in Pegasus. The "Old Tire Size" you should enter is 255/70-17. The calculator has a default "rubber squish" of 5% which gives a circumference of 2421 mm. The calculator uses higher "squish" values because the rim doesn't deform, only the tire does, so the percentage change is being applied only to the tire's contribution to the diameter. I've found my calculator "squish" needs to be about 7%, and if I use that on your tires, I get 2399. A 6% squish gives 2410. So, you can see that the 3% total reduction I used earlier is between 6 and 7% rubber squish.

Anyway, try 2404 (or maybe 2410, since you inflate your tires higher than mine) as a starting point. I think it will be close. (And I hope I haven't confused you too much)!

By the way, 3.3 recorded miles in 3.0 actual miles is a huge error! (About 10%). And, showing more distance on the odometer than actually traveled says your tire size is too large.

- Jack

Thanks yet again Jack for the information. I will try this again. Hopefully this will be resolved soon. I'll put in the 2410mm size and go back down that 3.0 mile route and see how it goes. I keep my tires at 40psi so that should be a good starting point.

Darren, since the max pressure on your tires is 65, I would not hesitate to inflate them to 45 or 50.

- Jack

The max is actually 44psi. I have General Ameritrac's

My mistake! Stay with 40 psi. Overinflating invites a blowout, and, premature treadwear in the middle of the tread.

- Jack

Precisely. I was considering dropping it to 35psi but I have a road trip coming up tomorrow, so i'll keep them up at 40 for the highway ride. Riding them at 40 for the past 8 months like I have has taken alot of life out of them, and the one burn out I did last year didn't help lol.

As far as the tire size, I think i'm well set now, I did the same route and I hit 2.9 miles when I parked, and I re-set the OD when I was going 55 so i'll trust it.

If you are certain the EXACT distance is 3.0, seeing 2.9 on the odometer says now that your TS is too small, by about 0.1/3.0 x 100 = 3%. So, you may want to add back in about 70 mm making the TS equal to 2480 and see how that works. My guess is though, that the distance may not be precisely 3.0 miles.

It's a bit of trial and error to get it dead right, but it CAN be done. On your road trip, pay attention to the highway mileage markers. Over a longish distance, they are quite accurate. Here in Arizona, I calibrated my speedo by noting what the odometer recorded after 100 miles of interstate driving. I was within 0.1 miles, which is an error of only one-tenth of a percent. Using long distances minimizes error.

Another way to get it "close" is to "pace" someone with an accurate speedometer. Use the readout for speed on the Gryphon (the dash speedo will always be about 2 mph above that). If your pace car is at 70, and you read 71, your tire size is about 1/70 x 100 = 1.4% too big.

I'm guessing that 17 inch rims were standard on your truck and that possibly your current tires are OEM size? If so, what was the Ford recommended pressure for the tires? It should be shown on the VIN sticker on the driver's door and there might be a sticker on the fuel door.

- Jack

I'll try it one more time then re-adjust it. My wheels and tires are stock, 17" and 255/70/17 Generals. 35psi is whats factory recommended.

OK then, use the factory recommended pressure. Mine is 40 psi, but I have bigger wheels and tires. 40 is "safe", but it can cause wear on the center of the tread, in your case.

- Jack