WOT gear change...0-60 times....
 

So I've played around a little with the stock tunes on the Gryphon. At WOT, when the truck shifts from first to second, there is a stutter (delay, not really sure what to call it). The RPM's hit the rev limiter I'm guessing, then there is a pause and the RPM's fall slightly, then the RPM's hit the limiter again before shifting to second gear. Remember, these are the canned tunes. I'm guessing this will be resolved with the custom tunes. Anyone else experience this?

So I haven't really made an effort go to a perfectly level area to do a 0-60 time yet, but I did so on an on-ramp merging onto the highway. There was a slight decline, so these numbers I'm sure aren't exactly accurate since gravity probably gave me a little assistance. Anyway, the truck is a 2007 F-150 4x4 SCrew with stock tunes (87 tow) from Gryphon, stock 20inch wheels with the stock Pirelli's, AEM dryflow filter, and Magnaflow 5x8x18 muffler replacing the stock muffler. 0-60.1 mph was 6.78 seconds. Again, I was going slightly down hill on an on-ramp merging onto the highway when I checked this. I still thought this was very good and I'm extremely satisfied!!! I can hardly wait to get the custom tunes. The custom tunes will hopefully resolve the stutter at 1-2 gear change and I'll check a true 0-60 on perfectly level ground. I'll get some 1/4 mile numbers then as well.

VERY SATISFIED CUSTOMER:2thumbs:

Mark, you might want to go into the "Custom Options Menu" and check what the Gryphon is loading for your gear ratio and tire size. If I'm not wrong, I think it loads a default setting for each that may have nothing to do with what you've got on your truck. And if you've done all this, forgive me. I read recently somewhere that an incorrect gear ratio can cause symptoms similar to what you describe.

In "Custom Options" for your chosen tune level, first go to "Load Previous Settings" so that what is in the PCM gets put into the Gryphon. Then check and adjust your Gear Ratio and Tire Size if necessary. If your tire size is not right, use Bill's "Gear Ratio Calculator" (part of Pegasus under "Tools"). Put your tire size in the first box like this: "275/65-18" (which is what my tires are) and you'll immediately see your tire circumference in mm with a 5% "squish" factor, which is a good starting point.

I think even with the custom tunes, you're going to have to check and reset your tire size each time you change your tune level. (At least I have to do this with mine).

- Jack

I just thought of something else. The Gryphon manual says your MAX RPM must be at least 150 above your WOT shift points or you might experience erratic shifting.

Somewhere, in what's left of my feeble brain, :geezer: I seem to remember Bill saying this figure should actually be 300 (or was it 400?) RPM. I know my WOT shift points are in the 4900-5000 range and my MAX RPM is at 5400 (I don't race and I don't want to balloon the Torque Converter, so my values are probably lower than yours).

Anyway, you might check these values too.

- Jack

Thanks for info Jack. My Gryphon, Speedo, and GPS all read the same at 60mph (the GPS is an aftermarket Garmin and is not connected to the truck's speedo). I was assuming the original pcm file had the stock tire size/wheel size info already programmed, and the Gryphon built on that file. I haven't played with the custom tuning options. I'm going to let Bill do that for me. If I don't know what I'm doing :shrug: I'm afraid I might damage something :scream: I agree with you about the rev limiter. I bet that is the issue. I'll recheck it after I get the custom tunes.

Mark

The Gryphon and speedo will always read the same (actually, the speedo will be about 2 mph higher due to a quirk in the way Ford does things, according to Bill). They BOTH get their input from the PCM, which has been programmed by the Gryphon to interpret axle revolutions to determine speed and distance. The fact that they agree with a GPS, though, says the overall effect of the gear and tire circumference settings is producing correct speed and odometer values.

But, and this is a big but: Both gear and tire size COULD be wrong. I'm positive the default values in the Gryphon have nothing to do with what's in your truck. On the f150 forum, someone had 3.55 gears and the Gryphon said he had 3.73 gears (and he had "funny" shifts). I think 3.73 might be the default gear ratio. The tire size on mine always defaults to 2356, but my actual tire circumference, accounting for "squish" is about 2481. Since my gears ARE 3.73, if I don't set the tire size manually, my speed and distance values are about 5% lower than actual.

And, I don't recall the MAX RPM default in the canned tunes but I know it was lower than 5400. The MAX speed is set to 99 MPH, by the way.

All these things are adjustable in the custom options menus. You select something, such as Tire Size and hit Enter. You'll be shown what the Gryphon is going to insert into your PCM when it "tunes" it. If you don't like what you see, just use the up or down arrows to change the value, then hit Enter to set that new value.

I doubt you can hurt anything unless you do something stupid like advancing the spark on low octane gas, or, possibly setting the Rev Limit to a very high value and then standing on the gas pedal.

You can actually go through all the settings without changing anything just by hitting Enter at each and then hitting Enter again to accept the value once you've seen it. When you're through looking or customizing, hit Enter on the "Done" option and you'll be told to turn the key off and then back on.

If you've gone through the custom options and looked at any of them (or changed them) the programming process will take quite a bit longer than if you just skip the Custom Options step. Don't worry, just make sure your battery is healthy and that your headlights, AC blower and radio are off to minimize battery load. Don't do it in really cold weather either.

Hope all this information helps. I'd be more afraid of damaging the truck through hard acceleration and high speed, rather than through playing with the Gryphon.

And, I hope Bill chimes in here sometime to say I haven't been leading you astray.

- Jack

With the exception of the tire size and gear ratio (TS/GR), everything displayed in the custom options should be correct. I've mentioned this elsewhere but I'll post it again here for reference.

The F-150 PCM is broken down into 3 sections: RTOS, Strategy, and Calibration. There is also a small (256 bytes) section called the VID block that stores the vehicle specific parameters like tire size, gear ratio, and VIN number. It looks a little like this...

0x1:0000 - RTOS
|[VID]
|
|
|
|
|
|
0x50:0000 - Strategy
|
|
|
|
0x58:0000 - Calibration
|
|
|
|
0x60:0000 - Memory End


When our programmer modifies the memory, we only read and write the Calibration section of the memory. Ford, in its infinite wisdom, saw fit to not only put the TS/GR in the VID block but also have values that are located in the Calibration portion of memory.

In normal situations, the PCM uses the VID block for TS/GR information. If you have stock tires or gears we don't bother that setting.

When it is necessary to make changes to TS/GR, we have to make those changes to the Calibration because we do not access the VID block which is stored in the RTOS.

The confusion comes when we grab the default values located in the Calibration. These values have no relationship at all to what TS/GR is actually in the truck and are simply place holders for arbitrary data values. Some trucks are 3.55, some are 3.73, and we've even seen 3.31. When we change TS/GR, we write the values into these spaces and then set a switch that tells the PCM to ignore the VID block and use our new values instead.

Since we assume that neither value in the Calibration is accurate, this is the reason we always say to set BOTH TS/GR values. Don't change one or the other and expect it to all be correct.


One other note about custom tuning... Viewing the custom options sets a flag that tells the programmer to write those values to the PCM even if you didn't change it. We recommend that if you don't plan to change it, do not go into it. You may take a 20 second reprogramming session and easily turn it into 2 or 3 minutes. Shifts are especially slow to process so use those sparingly.

Does any of this make sense? I hope so. :howdy:

Take care.

Bill, I think you meant to say "don't" here, where I've highlighted "do", but I don't feel comfortable editing your post.

So, I'm still confused (have pity on an old man).

As I understand you now, the VID is used whenever we are in Level 0 (stock) and the PCM sees the stock values for GR and TS. But, if we move to any other level (1, 2, or 3) the PCM is going to use values found in the Calibration section? Or, is it that the Calibration section values are only used if and only if we open the Custom Options menu?

My truck's GR and TS are both stock and match what's on the sticker, which I also have. I put these values on the custom tune form when I sent it to you. When I choose one of the custom tunes you wrote, and check the GR and TS, I always see 3.73 for GR (correct) but 2356 for TS (way small). My tires are 275/65R18s and I've found that I get correct speed and distance using a 7% squish value (using the Gear Calculator) of 2480 at the recommended pressure of 40 psi.

Or finally: :bulbon: maybe? What we REALLY need to do is first load your custom tune with NO custom options (which, as I recall now, I only did once, when I got my first custom tune from you). And then (if we REALLY think we can do better) :hehe: go back, select the same tune level, then select Custom Options and then Load Previous Settings to get YOUR values that were written into the Calibration section to use as a baseline? (AND maybe this is what you were trying to tell me on the phone a while back and I was too stupid to understand? :doh:

And I know this is an extremely confusing post and I'm just glad I can feel free to express my ignorance.

- Jack

I was thinking the exact same thing Bill said :hehe:!! Actually, since it's as clear as mud to me, I'll leave everything the same and wait on my custom tunes. As of right now, the speed matches the GPS, so I won't change anything. As soon as I were to change something, I'm sure I would do this :doh:

I see where there is confusion about Custom Tuning versus Custom Options. It's a difficult concept to get your head around, especially if I don't explain it correctly.

In regards to the VID and TS/GR, here's the deal:

• The stock and the canned tunes all use the VID to handle correction for the speedo.
• Custom tunes (the ones I make) will NOT use the VID only if you ordered your tunes with non-stock tires and/or gears. If the tires and gears are stock, I don't change anything and the VID takes precedence, meaning you don't need to do anything.
• If the customer changes the TS/GR values, then those values take precedence over the VID.

I know it's a bit confusing and I am sure it's because I'm not explaining it properly. Here's a suggestion... It's not going to hurt to enter your own TS/GR as long as the values you enter are accurate. For the most part, the TS calculator is pretty accurate and you can get the axle code off the door sticker to determine your gears. If there's any question, just put the TS/GR values in and roll on.


As you mentioned Jack, you should always complete the first programming session before doing any custom tuning. This helps to ensure that the custom files are built from valid data from the PCM.

The Load Previous Settings menu option in the Custom Options is used only when you've made prior changes to the Custom Options and you want to reload those settings the next time through.

It may not be clear yet, but hopefully were at least going from mud to brackish. :D

OK, so let me see if I understand the "load previous settings" option. I am going to eventually get slightly bigger tires when these stock 31's wear out. May go with 33's at the most. If I change the TS/GR correctly to the custom tunes you are doing for me now, then I can just load previous settings when I switch back and forth from perf to tow and vice versa? Or, do I have to enter in the TS/GR each time I change back and forth? I hope not since I do tow a boat about 3-4x per month during the Spring-Fall months. Thanks for clearing it up a bit.

Mark

Bill! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Everything's totally clear now (I hope). I've been going into the Custom Options menu every time I've loaded a new tune (switching from Tow to Economy to Stock, depending on need) and now I see my confusion. In the Custom Options menu, the GR and TS information is obtained from the Calibration section and it may be bogus (unless a valid set of numbers had been written there before, and you Load Previous Settings?).

So, whenever changing tunes, Mark. Simply enter the level you want and skip the Custom Options part. Let the PCM accept the new tune. Then, if you need to verify or change anything, go back, reload the same level, enter the Custom Options menu and in it, first thing, Load Previous Settings. Then, change or verify anything you would like to customize your tune, recognizing that for each value you even look at, programming is going to take longer.

Did I get it right, finally, Bill?

The problem is not in your explanation sir, the problem is in the explanation or lack of same in the Edge manual (but I know it's a tricky concept).

- Jack

Okay.....I'm gonna try and make this as simple as possible for myself because now I am slightly second guessing what I should be doing!

Bill: My custom tunes were built without me specifying any change from the stock TS/GR!
My truck has 3:73's and stock 275/65 18's.........do you recommend I touch the TS/GR settings or not?
Currently I have my snow tires on and they are 265/70 18's.......again, should I just leave the settings alone?

I have tried playing around with many custom settings but I always keep coming back to your custom tune because it feels like it works the absolute best in every area........the only thing I tweek is the standard driving 1-2 shift and 2-1 shift. I drop it 1 because I want it to be slightly less aggressive when gently taking off from a dead stop!

Someone may have to help me a little here...so when I went to 87 tow (truck currently in 87 tow) and selected yes on custom tunes, I then went down to load previous settings. When I scroll through to check the settings, all of the shift point speeds are at 0??? Also, the tire size reads 2356 which is way off for 275/55-20 tires. Oddly enough, my speed is accurate with the GPS. If I put in the circumference of tires with 5% squish, my speed is about 2mph faster than GPS at 55mph.

Is there a way to see current settings loaded on the unit with 87 tow mode? I can't seem to get the "load previous settings" to load anything for me to view.

As I'm typing this, I'm thinking to myself "My truck runs great; I can't wait for my custom tunes; Why am I tinkering with this?" Oh well, guess it's part of my figure-it-out nature. Don't anyone lose any sleep or family time over this. I guess we're just tinkering around.

Merry Christmas

275/65-18 = 2503mm
265/70-18 = 2543mm

Difference = 1.5% or about 1 MPH at 60 MPH. It's up to you, but if you want the speedo to be dead accurate then you should change it.

When running the stock tires, leave the TS/GR alone. :thumbsup:

Load Previous Settings is used to load the last custom settings you made. This is so when you change levels you don't have to go back through and re-enter every change you made. If you haven't made any changes to begin with, there's nothing to reload.

As I've mentioned before, the default tire size and gear ratio that is displayed in the custom options HAS NO RELATION TO THE ACTUAL TIRES ON THE TRUCK. They are some made up, arbitrary number. You have to put in the correct size for your your tires and you must also put in the correct gear ratio.

Squish is a relative term used to describe the phenomena that occurs where the tire patch contacts the road. Tire inflation, tread compound, tread pattern and aspect ratio (sidewall height) all have an effect on squish.

For a 55 series tires, I would use a 3% squish value since the deflection of the sidewall is going to be considerably reduced compared to say, a 75 series tire. For the size you specified, you should be around 2517mm.

Take care and Merry Christmas!

:xmaseve:

At the risk of :deadhorse1: I'd like to mention that the tire circumference adjusted for "squish" is just a "ballpark" starting point. I had to make several changes to mine to get the speed (shown on the Gryphon) and the dash odometer to read correctly. With my 275/65-18 Goodyear Silent Armor tires, at the recommended 40 PSI, I use a value that is equivalent to 7% squish in the Gear Calculator application. And, the truck's dashboard speedometer reads 2 MPH fast at 75 MPH, but the odometer is accurate.

Merry Christmas everyone. We just got back from one of our Granddaughter's birthday day. She was born on Christmas Eve!

- Jack

You know what's weird, Jack, is that my Gryphon and Speedometer read exactly the same. I've read all of these other posts where there is a few MPH difference, but mine are identical. Oh well, maybe my truck was built on a Monday or a Friday:smiley_roll1:.

Merry Christmas

Don't you just love computers? Just when you think you understand them! :shrug:

Merry Christmas to you too. The last of our guests left a short time ago and I'm catching up here.

- Jack

I'm curious about this as well. I've just received my Gryphon in the Mail on Friday and I've been looking at all of the options on it. I've noticed these same numbers on multiple choices.

I don't have a problem with the TS/GS aspect and my number that I've entered has stayed in the program. I've only used the 87 Custom Tow so far.

Now.... When I FIRST plugged the Gryphon into the truck, I did select YES to Custom Program as I new I needed to change the TS in my truck (305/65-18's). As I read earlier in this Thread, it said I should have loaded the program as is and say NO to custom programing and then go back in and make my changes later. I hope I didn't screw up the new CUSTOM program from Bill. If so, do I have to get Bill so resend his CUSTOM program back to me that has all of his settings that he entered?????? Confused...... :shrug:

On the learning curve here, Thanks for any help given.......

Cheers,

Jamie

Jamie,

Selecting the custom options the first time through generally isn't a bad thing. It just means that the values that come up in the custom options may not directly relate to the any of the actual values in the program itself.

The reason for this is because we don't actually read the PCM until AFTER you've gone through the custom options menus. What ends up happening is that a preset "default" value is used instead of the actual values from the calibration.

This is an area of confusion for many folks, but rest assured it does not affect your custom files at all. Just go through another session and you'll be good to go.

Hope this helps.

Well, finally got pass that Data Base error stuff...Any word on when that will be fixed?

Anyway, i have the same problems with that hesitation in the shifting at WOT as mentioned in the first post. I read through a bunch but the posts were really long...Was there ever a clear cut idea to why it does this and should i be worried? I can only get like a 8.8 for my 0-60 on a flat road...This makes me really sad when i hear guys talking about 6 or even 7 second 0-60's...Any ideas?
08 FX4 Screw. Tow Level 2. Canned Edge. Volant CAI.