Gryphon on a 7.3L
 

Hello I just got a new to me truck about a month ago and am looking for some extra power. I am looking at the Gryphon due to the fact that I need gauges and it has them bilt in. Is anyone running this programer on their diesel and if so how do you like it. I am up for any suggestions if there is a better product for my truck. I only drive the truck once and a while and will mostly be using it to tow our 26 foot camping trailer that only weighs about 6000 fully loaded. I also use the truck to go snowboarding in the winter. I plan to add a 4inch turbo back exhaust system. Please help me make the right choice

This is a good question, and I hope Bill or Cody will give you an answer soon. I can't, since my knowledge of diesels is pretty limited.

- Jack

7.3's dont have a pyrometer built into the vehicle. as this is the most important gauge to have you will need to add one anyway even with the Gryphon. That said get a Phoenix chip or the FU package... you can shift on the fly unlike the gryphon that takes several minutes to download the tune to your truck... You will be at about the same price with gauges and a flip chip as you will with a gryphon and the Pyrometer adaptor I think is available for it Get the Pyro and trans temp if your truck does not have it. Boost gauge is nice but not manditory for basically stock trucks...
Once you run a Flip chip you will never be staisfied with any programmer on a diesel too many great tunes out for your truck so 6 choices will get filled easily...

Thanks, soutthpaw, I kind of thought the "chip" approach with additional gauges might be a better choice, but I felt this advice needed to come from a "smoker", not me.

- Jack

In addition to what DJ mentioned, which is very true, if the Gryphon retains the same reflash "capabilities" as the Edge Evolution, then you won't have maximized operation anyway.

Just to clarify, the way the programmers operate depends 100% on which computer code you have in the truck. Say for all intents and purposes you have a MRT2 box code. This code is awful for most any situation; especially driving (catch my sarcasm?). If you get a programmer, you are still stuck with the retarded MRT2 shift strategies but now you only have more firm shifts and torque converter clutch lockup along with more power.

A chip alleviates all of the problems associated with the .....um.....stupid ideas that Ford programmed into their transmission shift strategies by allowing the tuner to use a more user-friendly base code that doesn't suck WITHOUT having to change the entire PCM.

Renyren,

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the code issue that Cleatus mentioned.

But, to offer you a different opinion, I bought the Gryphon over the Phoenix for three main reasons: I didn't want to buy and install separate guages, it has the ability to read and clear engine fault codes and it comes with a pyrometer. (Plus, I like a lot of the other "extra" features in the programmer.)

I monitor these 4 parameters on the Gryphon constantly: Tranny temp, Engine oil temp, Turbo Boost and Exhaust Gas Temp (pyro).

I'm very happy with the 65Tow tune for heavy-duty towing and the 80HP tune for everything else. I don't find it onerous to sit in the driveway for two minutes to reprogram if I want to go out on a towing mission that requires the 65Tow.

FWIW, the intake/exhaust mods are easy to do and well worth the trouble. I did the "Tymar/Zoodad" intake myself and had a local mechanic friend put in a 4" turbo-back exhaust from Diamond Eye. I never see high EGTs.

Good luck with your decision!

Forgot to mention, from my own research, it appeared that the Gryphon with Bill's custom tunes (and the included pyrometer) was much cheaper than the buying a chip, 3 guages, a guage pod, and code reader reader software separately. :shrug:

I think you can get a scan gauge II that will work on the 7.3's for about $150 and it will monitor all the factory available variables. It will read and reset DTC's Too not sure about the diesels though. Also some of us old school guys just prefer dial over digital gauges.

Muns53 having the all in one package is what got me interested in the gryphon. I was told it is the same tunes that they put on the chip. How is the driveability and responsiveness since the gryphon was installed? Did you get the 65, 80, 100 setting? I am not opposed to doing seperate gauges and a chip but why if I don't have to. Have you tried the 100hp setting? Did your MPG improve at all?

Ren,

The tunes are the same in the programmer as the chip. However, the tunes that come with the programmer are factory Edge tunes. So, you want to order 3 of Bill's tunes to download. I originally was running the 65Tow, 80Performance and Fuel Sipper. Now, I have 65VeggieTow, 80Diesel and 80Veggie. (I run my Ex on filtered waste veg oil.)

I was having fun with the stock tunes, then when I downloaded Bill's tunes, I was REALLY much happier. More power, better shifting, better fuel economy.

My Ex got about 12.5 mpg when it was stock. I did the Tymar/Zoodad and 4" exhaust and that went up a couple mpg. Then, I installed the Vegistroke and veg oil does a little lower mpg than diesel. Then, I got the Gryphon and they went up a lot... then even more on the custom tunes. So, right now, on veg I average 16 mpg town / 18-19 mpg highway on veg. (And I slam it all the time, just to smoke it up and toss the Ex around.) On diesel that should be 2 mpg higher - and I believe pickups get better mileage than Excursions. So, if you're burning D2 in a pickup with the same mods as me, I guess you should be averaging 18-20 mpg around town and 20-22 mpg highway.

Talk to Bill about the power levels, but I decided to stick with the 80 because longevity on my motor/tranny was the most important thing to me. I don't know if that's valid thinking, but that's where I'm at for now. I admit, I am curious about the 100/120 HP tunes though... maybe someday, I'll do more with my motor (injectors, head studs, big oil, turbo, and hotter tuning), but for now, I'm good.

FYI - last time I ran my 0-60 time on the 80 tune (with 40 gallons of veg and 10 gallons of diesel and three passengers), it was 7.2 seconds. Don't really know how that compares to other folks, but I'm pretty happy for an 8,000 lb truck. :cool_beans:

I was going through the same issue when I was looking for a programmer for my truck (2003 7.3L).

I chose the FU2 package and am very happy. I did install a gauge pod one the pillar and am very happy. For me the analoge gages are easier to read than my buddies digital (that is only my opinion).

I also find it very convienient to be able to switch on the fly. I have been doing a lot of landscaping lately and hauling between 9-10,000 lbs of rock and concrete in a dump trailer and being able to switch between tow modes at the landfill once unloaded has been convenient. Plus sometimes it is fun to put it in 120HP race and smoke the imports.

I also like the flexibility of the chip over the gryphon for its retuning ease. Bill just sends you updates or new tunes and you can load them from home.

I currently run

1. High Idle 1100RPM (great for warmup or getting the ac going)
2. 80HP daily driver
3. 80 HP fuel sipper
4. 65 HP tow
5. 25 HP tow
6 120 HP race

I am seeing 16-17 HP around town and 19-20 on the freeway depending on driving conditions.

Sounds like your truck is a daily driver. I will only put about 5000 miles a year on my truck and will mostly use it for camping with our trailer or going to the snow. I am just not sure I would switch back and fourth between 6 positions. I was hoping there would be more responses from actual people running the gryphon.

You don't have to fill all 6 positions. You can have as little as one or two and it is QUITE affordable that way.

Unfortunately, you won't get too many responses from people running any kind of programmer because they have gotten to the point where they are too expensive and too inconvenient to use.

Analog gauges ARE easier to read, it's scientific fact that the human brain recognizes physical movement a lot more readily than an increase of a digital readout. Besides, there is a certain "refresh rate" built into digital instrumentation and it's basically the delay encountered during quick input changes when the digital readout skips a few numbers on its way up that drives a lot of folks insane. It's why I won't buy a sport bike with a digital speedometer.

Sorry, renyren, I don't have any good news for you.

Ren,

As Cody indicated, we don't sell very many of the Gryphons on the 7.3L because (1) they have fewer calibrations and (2) they don't have the shift-on-the-fly capability that so many people like.

The tuning for the Gryphon will be the same as that for the Phoenix (including FU and FU2) chips and we can even compensate for the unruly and undesirable calibrations for the most part.

What is boils down to is what makes the most sense for you. Yeah, the Gryphon doesn't have an analog needle to catch your eye, but it does offer visual and audible alerts (flashing display and warning beep) when certain parameters reach a predefined (by you) setting.

The folks that do run the programmer are usually quite happy with it as it fits a specific set of needs quite well. For those who prefer to be able to switch and play, the chip is a more desirable way to go.

I hope this helps.

I will only put about 5000 miles a year on the truck and just want to get better MPG and more power for towing my 6000 lb camping trailer. I need gauges so that is why I am interested in the gryphon. I don't know how much people need to switch settings. most people say to get a chip but for the reason of being able to shift on the fly. If you can put the same tunes on the gryphon then if I want to change tunes down the road if I get a bigger trailer I can buy it and download it from your site right?

Happy 7.3L Gryphon Owner
 

All I can say is WOW!! I have fuel sipper, extreme and max tow. Holy cow Extreme smokes the tires and max tow is unbelievable. I havent figured out MPG on fuel sipper. But, I am very, very happy. Programming doesnt take that long and its usually for the whole day. So I dont mind waiting 3-4 minutes to change. I cant recommend it enough and the gage monitoring is an added bonus. I love it!!!

thank you what year and make truck are you running it on?

i just built a truck specifically for towing, 2002 f-550. i went the gryphon because i did not think shift on the fly was necessary. i went with 20 tow 40 tow and 60 econ. i expect to put it in 40 tow and leave it there indefinetely. i tow a 40 foot toyhauler weighing 18,000#. i have another truck that is heavily modded, i went with a shift on the fly for that truck(over-rated.) the gryphon is the hot ticket in my opinion. great tunes, built in gauges. i personally got the pillar mount rather than the dash mount. i could not be happier. i honestly wish i discovered PHP for my first build. i suppose it is not too late.

I have read this whole thread and left with some unclarities.

- Can both the chip and the gryphon adjust speedo for wheel size changes?
- What about the stock computer code does the chip bypass and the gryphon does not?
- will one see better MPG with the chip codes over the gryphon?
- Both options appear to do shift points, is one easier on the tranny?
- I have a 99 F250 7.3 - does the gryphon have an egt probe to read temp, or would I still need a an egt gauge?

Here are my goals:

- Driveability for highway and travel with the maximum MPG possible. Not looking for the most HP, smoke, etc.
- Light towing
- occasional 'fun' factor
- eventually will go to veggie conversion with a dual tank system
- reliability - could be taking this rig south of the border to costa rica

Truck has 141,000 on it, brand new to me. 4inch exhaust, stock injectors, k&n filter (will replace with new intake - not sure on DIY or manufactured one), 4inch lift, larger tires (spacing onthe size and it is -8 outside right now)

I am only really interested in mods that really help MPG for long distance traveling, of course some performance gains will be great.

Thanks
Travis

Please see the above highlights. I hope these help answer your questions. Let me know if there's anything else you need answers to.

Take care and happy New Year. :D

Thanks!

If you can run the same programming on the gryphon and the chip with the same performance gains, what are the impacts of the negative base codes?

It appears that in my scenario the gryphon would be a good option as long as I don't want to switch on the fly. Which I am willing to accept.

If I purchase the gryphon with custom tunes, can I switch to other tunes without additional cost nor sending the gryphon in as long as they are not custom?

How to choose between 65 and 80 daily tunes and which towing?

There is all this talk about Tony Wildman on the powerstroke forums. Of course this is the PHP forum. Bill - would you say your tunes are on par and just as trusted as the TW tunes?

I just need to decided between the Phoenix or the Gryphon and I am still no clear what is best for me. Seems both will do the trick and the Gryphon has the gauges and other features for simplicity.

Thanks again

I hope the above answers help. It's often a hard choice to make between the Gryphon and the Phoenix, but ultimately boils down to budget and features. The tuning will be the same so that shouldn't be a consideration.

Take care.

On the computer code issue, should I be worried about the shifting strategy differences you mentioned?

On the 85 tow - will it get the best mileage out of all the tows, since that is the weight range I will be in? I don't think I will ever be over 4000 lbs much less up to 10,000

How about the Fuel-Sipper?

Should I consider having you do a custom tune for the gryphon based on what I have said, or go with one of your stock ones?

Whats turn around on a a Gryphon right now?

If we tweak tunes, you email them to me and I can load them to the Gryphon or do I send it back?

Do you sell any intakes, looking at the S&B but did not see any on your site. I know a lot of people do the Napa DIY - but I rather have a cleaner engineered one.

Thanks for answering all this on the forum. I felt it would be well suited here so others can find the information versus calling/emailing.

I appreciate you posting. It does help others who have identical questions but aren't sure what exactly to ask.

Take care.

One last question.

'On the computer code issue, should I be worried about the shifting strategy differences you mentioned?

Generally not. There are just some shifting characteristics that are often less desirable. For example, some calibrations don't lock the converter in 2nd gear or won't lock the converter in 4th at full throttle. It's not a problem, per se, but just an annoyance for some folks"

Excuse my ignorance, what is meant the converter is not locked in 2nd or 4th?

Thanks
Travis

We are referring to the torque converter. Some calibrations will lock the converter clutches under specific conditions, and others won't

Travis,

To get a little more in depth with this question of yours:

Ford had a ton of different calibrations for the 7.3L powerstrokes. Each progressive code had something changed, be it one characteristic or a dozen. The changes weren't usually something that manual transmission truck owners would notice because there is no transmission shifting strategy required (the driver actually determines how the truck shifts instead of the PCM).

A lot of times, the Ford engineers actually built calibrations that didn't "make sense" to people who like to use and drive their trucks. My favorite example is my brother's truck (which shifts like a lot of other trucks out there) that has an MRT2 PCM code. It will not, under any circumstances, command a torque converter clutch apply in 2nd gear or at any usable speed in 3rd gear. It totally wastes all engine torque until the 3-4 shift at 45-50 MPH at which point it goes from a 3rd/unlocked to a 4th/locked.

Any time the engine loses RPM like that, all boost is lost. Acceleration suffers and it's just really frustrating to drive. A lot of other PCM codes do things like keep the torque converter clutch applied on deceleration but only for 13 seconds (MNM0, NVK2, etc.) or until the brake pedal is depressed (just about every 95-97 truck except TDE1/LKM6). Those don't make much sense either.

I see you have a 99. Is that an early 99 (build date of pre-8/98) or a 99.5 (9/98 or newer)? There are a ton of possibilities for your truck no matter which you have, but there are some pretty substantial differences between the two different model years.

Excellent information in this thread. I called Bill several months back with similar questions (and answers). In my case it was Evo/Gryphon vs. FU. I was glad to see it all reviewed and covered so well here for others with the same questions.

I have yet to order from Bill due to funds and because my project has been more involved than I ever imagined. I am currently just running a used Edge Evo I picked up cheap on Craigslist, but anxiously awaiting the funds to get a FU. I will continue to use my evo as a monitor (and probably have Bill convert it to a Gryphon for vanity reasons :D).

My calibration code is NQW4 - anyone know if this is generally a good one or a bad one? I know I dont care for how it shifts in stock tune, although i cant tell exactly what its doing or not doing and when (as far as the TC is concerned). With the Evo tunes, the shifting seems slightly better but not as firm nor as "tow-minded" as I'd like it to be.

The NQW4 is a TNAA5 calibration which means that it is very similar to the VDH3 and VDH4 pickup codes except yours controls a glow plug module due to the 50 state emissions requirements that Excursions had.

There are a lot of good programs available for your truck.

Excellent! thanks!

I was also debating Tony Wildman vs. PHP and ultimately the very informative and friendly nature of the website and this forum made me pick PHP (and Bill's tuning experience).

I spend most of my wrench time on my race car or the house so the Gryphon is better for me b/c it's easier to install. When I found the chip location for the Phoenix chip I was completely stymied by the giant wiring harness in the way. I couldn't event maneuver a tiny mirror on a stick in there to see the code.

This thread also answered my questions about which alternate standard tunes to request. My truck probably gets driven 1-2x per week and it will always be in either a daily driver mode or a tow mode - I have no need to switch on the fly.

Look for my gryphon order form today or tomorrow.