Limp Home Mode
 

:sniffle:

Was playing with customizing my tunes yesterday after work (stock tunes, waiting for Bill's custom tunes). I was using #3 performance tune. I changed tire size to try and dial in my speedo, I adjusted WOT shifting, but not by much. I am around 5100 on the 1-2 shift and a little less on the 2-3 shift. I then bumped up my timing to "1". I programmed it, went to drive off to see how it feels. Made it 100 yards with no issue. Then "pop" and instant loss of power. Engine stayed running, the wrench came on, and I was in "limp home mode". I then stopped, went back into the gryphon and reset previous (befre these changes) settings. Loaded those and was good to go.

What I'd like to know, was it my timing bump ? How much does each .25 actually advance the timing ? What would be a safe timing bump ? if any.
My truck is a 2004 Ford F150 4x4 w/ 4.6 L motor. I have a Fabtech 6" lift, 35" M/T tires. No other real drivetrain mods. I only run Chevron 91 octane (highest octane out this way). :shrug:

Thanks for any info.

I'm not the expert here, Bill is. But, I'll offer my thoughts.

Level 3 already has advanced timing to run 91+ octane gas. I think your advance of 1 point (and sorry, I don't know if this is really degrees) was WAY too big. The manual suggests a 0.5 increase for each octane number increase, so your timing was set up to the 93 octane level.

I'm surprised that put you into limp home mode, especially so quickly, but I can't think of any reason for the other changes to cause the problem.

I know I tried advancing the timing by 0.25 once (since we live at 2500 feet, and you should be able to advance the timing some for increased altitude) and it caused my idle to "wander". (I've said I advanced it 0.5 in other threads, but that was because I couldn't remember the smallest possible adjustment increment - which is what I actually tried). So anyway, I think the truck is VERY sensitive to timing issues, and that's where I'd put my money. Be interesting to hear what Bill thinks.

- Jack

Mercedes,

The timing changes are in actual degrees, so +.25 is actually adding ¼ degree of timing advance. I doubt the timing really had anything to do with it, although if it did it is more the possibility that the engine is making more power than expected and the computer is not happy.

Did you happen to have a second to check the DTCs? I have been hunting down a couple problems with a P061B DTC that has to do with a problem with torque calculation. I have 1 or 2 other customers that have had a similar issue. It doesn't occur all the time but it usually happens right after reprogramming the vehicle to a level.

When it does occur, you don't need to reprogram back to stock. All you should have to do is...

• Turn the key off
• Turn the key back on (Don't start)
• Go to the Diagnostics menu
• Clear the DTCs
• Turn the key off
• Restart the truck

It shouldn't occur again.

As I said, there is something in the torque calculation that is causing the issue and I'm working with a couple folks to get the issue isolated and resolved. As soon as I come up with a final solution, we'll be able to do a calibration update.

Stay tuned... ;)

Thanks Bill ! I was hoping you would chime in for me. I didn't think "1.0" = 1* of timing. I don't know why, but I thought it would be less. I still don't fully understand how it would cause the limp home mode, but I'm not a Ford tech, so ??? I didn't go back to stock, just went to level 2, and already had custom tunes I had used, and knew worked. I programmed that with the gryphon into the truck, and was good to go.

I have yet to pull the DTC's. I was on my way to pick up a customer car, so was in a bit of a hurry. Truck has been sitting since. I figure I have time tonight, I'll tinker with it a little bit. If I pull a code, I will be sure to post it up, so you can see which one.

So, with my truck, running 91 octane, you think I should leave it alone ? I have bumped it up to .25 or .50 before without issue. Might try .75 and see. Any suggestions ? Might just play with it to see what happens.

Can't thank you enough for the reply ! You rock ! :cool_beans:
- James

And I learned quite a bit here too! Thanks to both of you! I DO know, James, that the "standard" advice is to make changes VERY gradually and do them one at a time to prevent confusing interactions. So, if I were trying to advance the timing again, I'd probably try 0.25 degree increments.

- Jack

Another P061B
 

I had this happen yesterday after adjusting canned tune #2, 87 towing. To help Bill track this one down, here's the info:

2007 4.6

Had been running #2 tune for a few days with no custom changes and no issues. I then made a couple of changes from the base program:

Idle speed +75 (this seems to help driveability in parking lots)
WOT enrich 1.3 -> 1.5

Gear ratio from 3.73 -> 3.55

The canned tunes all seem to default to 3.73 even though my truck has a 3.55 (axle code 19 on the door sticker).

Tire size from 237X to 2337. Like gear ratio, canned tunes seem to start with very slightly incorrect values.

Not from a full cold start -- off for about three hours, but mostly warmed up (~160 degrees CHT). Taking off from a stoplilght, about 1/3 throttle, ETC light and loss of power hit right around 1-2 upshift. No CEL light.

Limped a few blocks to a parking lot, shut off. Key on, diagnostics, DTC P061B only. Returned to stock. Hit the drivethrough and back to job site on factory tune with no issues.

Back to PHP #2 tune without mods (load previous settings = NO) for the trip home (50 miles) with no issues.

Hex code and serial number should be in my profile.

Here's what I need...

1. Connect to Pegasus (no need to return to stock).
2. Go to Utilities -> Read Critical Files.
3. In the "C:Program FilesPHPPegasusData" folder, locate the files "level2_0.eca" and "custom.eca" and please e-mail them to me.

This way, I can look at what was changed and see if there is something corrupted in the custom file that would cause the DTC and limp mode.

Thanks.

Sburn, I'm not Bill, but I DO try to help. Do you recall what your CHT was (since you are monitoring it) when you got the ECT light and you went into limp mode? Or, did I misunderstand and it WAS 160 when this happened? If it was in the normal range, your truck clearly did not overheat, but something made it "think" it did.

The trouble code you got was: "P061B Internal Control Module Torque Calculation Performance", which is helpful as hell, isn't it? :sigh:

I can't believe your customized settings had anything to do with this.

Ah dear, I see I'm a day late and a dollar short again, Bill's already on it. I should have thought of corrupted files. But, of greater interest to me now, is why are files becoming corrupted now and then?

Even worse, now that I read a few posts back, I see this DTC is a definite symptom. I must be losing it!

- Jack

Done, and on the way via email.

And that, folks, is how customer service is done by PHP. Thanks for the speedy response!

Yes, normal temperature range. No big loads or towing. Just going from work to McDee's at lunch.

Agreed, this DTC looks like it might pop up every once in a great while. Might just be a 4.6 problem, also.

Thanks.

I had this happen to me a few days ago.

Went into failsafe mode....but i just hit reset on my trucks LCD screen...and it was fine. I was towing my trailer on level 2, it has been on level 2 for a few months with no troubles.

I went in and retrieved the codes.....P061B and P2106.

What does this meen?

There were no high temps and it has ran fine since?

Are you running canned or custom tunes?

Are you running a cai?

I think Bill going to have to look into this.

I will post a note on the mod board.

Lars

BTW please fill in your user info. Such as HEX code and gryphon serial number.

Using canned tunes......everything is stock....stock intake with Amsoil air filter.

i'll fill in my details.
Thanks.

Looks just like what Sburn had, doesn't it?

So, by hitting the reset button for your message center, you made Failsafe mode go away?

This is sounding more like a glitch in the PCM, rather than something in a tune.

Wish we knew if Bill found anything in Sburn's files. :shrug:

Since Lars is going to post a note in the Mod's board, maybe Bill will be able to tell us something.

- Jack

As a followup, this error only happened the one time I reported it. And that was with canned #2 tune.

I'm now using a custom tune, and have never had it happen with that, period. I've also never tried to adjust that tune via the Custom Setting menu, since it's perfect for me as Bill wrote it.

Thanks, Sburn. And, I guess Bill never found anything wrong, did he?

- Jack

If you go over to f150online and type in "p2106" or "p061" into the search bar.
You will see a bunch of posts about and mostly refering to edge and canned level 2 tow.
Back then Bill was looking at it when he was working for edge. I wonder if its a glitch that really never got worked out? But it kinda points the finger at the drive by wire system also.

Lars

Not that I ever heard.

After setting level 2 (nothing custom, just basic level 2) and driving 1/2 mile I got the p061B code as well.

Pulled into a gas station, set back to stock, ran my errand.
When I got home I put it back to level 2 and drove around a bit and it was like it never happened.

I guess I won't worry too much about this issue unless it happens again or frequently.

I had addressed this in an earlier thread, but can't seem to find it at the moment.

Anyway, from what we've seen this phenomenon seems to happen immediately after programming a truck and driving it for the first time, especially under hard acceleration. The PCM triggers the P061B DTC, pops the "wrench" on the dash, and the engine goes limp. After cycling the key, the problem usually doesn't reoccur until the next programming session.

As near as I can tell, the PCM is detecting a disparity in calculated torque versus a preset estimated torque table witch triggers the P061B DTC. Why this usually only happens once is still a bit of a mystery and there are minor corrections we can make to eliminate this issue entirely.

It should be noted that we only ever see this problem on vehicles with CAIs and usually only when running canned tunes, although some earlier custom tunes may exhibit this issue as well.

As mentioned, any custom files with this issue can be modified to resolve this issue. Just let me or Corey know and we'll get it on the rebuild list.

Take care.

Good to know. Thanks Bill.

I won't worry too much about the code then, and when my custom tune is ready it sounds like I shouldn't have this problem anyways.

That's probably why we say not to hammer it and be nice when running L2 canned tune and a cai.

Lars

Bill, How ya been ? Its been a long time since we last talked. Hope everything is going well with you and yours.


I was probably one of the first people to report this problem to you. It happened with my canned tuned, and then continue to happen with my custom tunes. I do NOT have CAI. But, I have learned to live with it, as it is really no big deal. When you first load a custom tune, realize it will go into limp home mode. I always set my custom tunes in large open parking lots. Once it is loaded, I drive off. Within a few minutes the wrench is thrown. I put it in park, go into diagnostics on the Gryphon. I clear any and all trouble codes. Turn off truck. Restart truck and you will be good to go. It has taken me one or two times to get it, but that is why I advise any tune change to happen in a large open lot. That way you have plenty of room to test drive it after each loading session. Just my 2 cents.

:2thumbs: If there is a way to fix this, I would be interested in it. :2thumbs:

MT,

There is a fix for your situation. I'll get you a new rebuild the first of the week and that should take care of your issues. :D

Bill, I went out of town and business had just been booming, and crazy, and just too much going on. Seems like I got some things back under control, and everything is back to the normal smooth everyday stuff.

Anyway, was there any update ? What do I need to do on my end ?? Thanks a lot.

James,

Update loaded. Make sure you are using the latest version of Pegasus (v2.01.0594) before you update.

Let me know if there are any further issues.

Take care.