Ethanol In pumps ????
 

I have noticed that more and more ethanol has been mixed with the fuel in my area. I have noticed that 90% of the stations have 87 and 89 with "up to 10%" ethanol on the tag.

How does this affect a tune that was written for true 87 or 89.

Also the pumps are generically labeled so how do I know that there not adding it to their 91 octane. I have been selective on where I fuel up case I don’t know anything about ethanol. I have been able to find someone that doesn't have a sticker on their 91 octane.

Any input?

Nice question, twintips! I suspect, to get the BEST out of a tune, it SHOULD be rewritten to account for 10% ethanol. But, since it's really been coming in as a "standard" for the past year or so, it's quite possible our tunes have been written to take the gasohol blend into account.

And, I think if the 87 and 89 blends are E10, then the 91 is too.

The good thing about E10 is, it won't damage a pre flex-fuel engine (at least we think it won't) :lookaround1: I doubt the long term effects are really known yet, kind of like some of the "wonder drugs" that have been pulled off the shelves recently in your favorite drugstore.

It seems to me we are going to have to live with it. Some of us went through a similar experience many years ago when it was decided lead was bad for us and Ethyl gasoline was no longer made available. Suddenly, a whole bunch of high compression engines were left high and dry - mine included. Oh, yea, they came up with an unleaded alternate, but, it was not the same! We can still make those cars run, but, trust me, they don't run like they used to.

Bill would be the one to answer your "tune" change concerns though.

- Jack

I have been running on a 91 tune and have been able to find somewhere where it is true 91......:sniffle: As of now. :cursin:

But everywhere I fuel up it seems the 87 and 89 have "up to 10%". That scares me for when I want to run some tunes that are 89.

If they need to account for the ethanol then they would need to know the percentage and they can only give a ball park. :throwup:

all of the stations down here have switched to 10% ethanol on every octane

THats retarded:sigh:

I see alot of 10% pumps in Phoenix. Now that I think of it, that's all I remember seeing..

So look what i found today. Below is a picture of a pump that i filled up at and at the top is a sticker that says "may contain ethanol".

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=195

And i was so bummed un tell i read this on the 91 octane nozzle.

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=196

Why cant they all do this.

I looked as i drove by three other stations of the same brand and none of them had that sticker.

I know where im goign to get my fuel from now one!!!:smiley_roll1:

I am actually surprised they offer surpreme without it since the others have it, but the question is, how long will it last that way:lookaround1:

A better question is how long is gas guna hover down where it is. Did you see how much 15 gallons of gas at 91 cost me.... LOL :yikes2: It was over double that this date last year!!!

Its been steadily creeping up down here, and just went up again today, I would guess we might have another month and half or so.:sigh:

Maybe a little longer, but, you KNOW it's gonna happen!

- Jack

OHHHH i cant wait.

It went down..... Its only gone up here.

Just to revive this issue! All the stations here are pumping gas with 10% ethanol now. Does this affect our tunes? I have heard that ethanol has a higher octane rating than pure gas. Should the timing be advanced or rewritten into the code?

Ethanol DOES have a higher resistance to pre-ignition, which is what octane ratings are all about, but if the pump says 87 octane, that's its minimum antiknock rating. It COULD be higher, but it won't be less. And, I suppose you could try advancing the timing in small increments (i.e., 0.25) and see what happens.

However, I'm fairly certain the antiknock properties of gasoline are improved through the use of additives in the refining process that contribute to an increase in cost. I don't really see a refiner using those costly additives in the same way if the antiknock properties are improved by adding ethanol. So, I'd guess that the mere fact that gas is E10 has not improved its octane rating.

However, different brands CAN have slightly different octane ratings as long as they meet the minimum shown on the pump. You can experiment to find a brand that will let you advance the timing some. The trouble is, our trucks have anti-knock sensors built in to the system that will actually retard the timing if detonation is detected. So, advancing timing may actually be non-productive.

I know I tried advancing mine once, by 0.25, back when I had an Edge before it was converted to a Gryphon. I immediately noticed an uneven idle. I put the timing right back to "0".

- Jack

The only two or three of the stations serve ethanol as a side dish but I'm still paying $2.57 for regular 87. :disbelief: Suprisingly one of the stations with the 10% ethanol seems to make my $20 last longer than the regular from other stations, and it's not because of the price/volume difference.
I wouldn't change the timing too much but I did get better results on the canned tunes by moving it up to .25 then to .5 degrees. I probably could have gone further but I decided not to.
Jack, my truck is almost the opposite of yours. Before I got my programmer, my truck had a slightly uneven idle. The tunes and advanced idle cleared it up. Ha, that just seems strange to me. :hehe:

Just shows how different trucks are like different people. No two will ever be exactly alike. But, I agree, it's kinda weird how they could be "opposite". I should probably try bumping the timing again now that I have custom tunes. Possibly, I'd get different, and better results. :shrug:

- Jack

I have played with the timing a bit to see if there is a benefit. At +.25 it seemed peppier but less torque. Also had an increase in MPG (this was when I was still running the AC constantly). Tried +.50 but that almost seemed to erase any benefit. I am now running it at the 87 custom performance +0without the AC mostly and mileage is about the same as +.25 with the AC on. I like the way the truck feels at +0 better than with advanced timing. It just seems to pull harder. I'm not a racer, just normal mixed city/highway with light hauling and towing. I will try it again at +.25 now with the cooler weather and see if it makes a difference.

Also my idle seemed to smooth out at +.25, now at +0 it is slightly rough at times.

Thanks for the input, I think ethanol may be here for a while and this may help sort out if we can tweek things to better advantage.

Haha, I bet it can drive Bill a little crazy because he can never be 100% sure how a truck will react.

^That is very similar to what was going on with my truck. Haha, you'd think that since they are machines off of an assembly line that they would all be the same. Sure is strange. :face-lol: But I guess it's those quirks that keeps Bill in business.

Nope, two different machines off an assembly line will never perform the same, even if they are the same model, production run, etc.

I used to see this in aircraft. Each one had its distinct personality. The little tiny differences in tolerances and other production differences are enough to make fairly big changes in performance. I guess that's why a race car is "hand-tuned", from nose to tail.

- Jack

Haha, but back to topic there are some automotive items that I do like to be quirky--gas pumps. I remember one in New Braunfels a long time ago that would keep gas dripping even after the handle was let go. I guess it siphoned or something, but they've probably fixed it by now. :notallthere::hehe: I found one over where I'm at but it doesn't drip fast enough to be worth sitting there. :rofl:...seems like thats is the only time you get your money's worth. lol

That'd be cool, free gas! I've seen a couple that didn't shutoff when the tank was full. That's a mess! And, a couple that allowed the previous guy to set the nozzle to on so that the next poor slob (me in this case) got a hose that started delivering gas just as soon as the pump was turned on (before putting the nozzle in the filler pipe).

I guess I'm happiest when the things work the way they're supposed to.

- Jack