2007 F150 5.4L with Gryphon
 

I currently have a Gryphon and am running the 87 performance tune.

Ok so earlier this week I started hearing wat sounded like a little rattling noise at certain RPM's. I assumed a loose exhaust clamp or something simple I could do when I had the weekend off. Truck has also been hard to start. I assumed maybe needed a new battery even though mine is only 2 years old


Today I was running low on gas and pumped in some 91 octane, only about 5 gallons. Drove home and idle at lights seemed a little rough. Picked up my daughter and headed home. Get home and stop just outside the garage to let my daughter out. Start to pull into the garage and engine starts running REALLY rough. Bouncing between 3-500 RPM's, low based on what I have seen.

Pull the code and I get:
P0012 Intake Camshaft
Position timing
over retarded (bank 1)

Code looked exactly as posted above.

Tune issue? octane issue? Other issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am heading to the snow this weekend and do not want to get stuck up there...

Thanks.

I have been running it since I got my custom tunes.

I looked back at my emails and it looks like you notified me on 01-04 about them being ready, so shortly after that.

Try and return to stock?

Have not tried to return to stock yet...Wanted to wait for some input first.

How many miles on your truck? What weight oil you running? How often do you change it? Sounds like a cam phaser failing, take it to the Stealership. Common issue on the modular engines because they are oil pressure actuated and any crud in the journals will cause them to stick in the default position due to lack of flow and pressure.

EDIT: IF it were a tune issue it would have happened immediately after you uploaded the calibration.

32xxx miles on the truck. Mods in the sig. whatever the reccomended oil is the oil change place put in. Changed every 4000 miles or so

Sounds like you're doing everything right, and still under warranty. I'd take it in to Ford and have them look at it.

That looks exactly like the code that came up on mine about a week ago...i'm running the 87 perf too. i returned to stock and then checked for codes again, and none came up...i then reloaded the 87 perf tune and no codes again...still running it with no probs.

hmmm..That gives me hope of a computer glitch? simple fix... Did you run for any length of time on the stock program before going back to the 87 performance or just load them back to back?

no run time at all...i got to work and shut off the truck and installed stock tune right away..checked for codes and then left it for the day...next morning installed 87 perf again. my codes came up as yours but bank 2 also. went really gutless...thought the fuel filter was gumming up kinda feeling. and would not rev over 3000 rpm.

OK, BOTH of you have pretty new trucks, still under warranty. And, you are having similar problems. Caforddude, I doubt NS ran it at stock for long, probably just long enough to "reboot", so to speak. I'd try that and see what happens.

Regardless, though, I don't like what you're both describing, and I don't have a fix. I doubt it's really a problem with the trucks, or the tunes, but some sort of unforeseen interaction/side effect of mixing the two. It happens in computer programming all the time and CAN be fixed, once the cause is found. It's usually something so simple it's hard to see.

I think Bill needs the exact code number to make sense of this. Can you provide it?

(One more thing for everyone: In engineering, if you don't have failures, you're not advancing and pushing the envelope. No one wants engineering to operate that way).

- Jack

Well I reprogramed it with the stock tune, ran it around the block and then programed my 87 performance back in.

Same issue, same code. Is it possible this is a tune related issue meaning a coding issue not that the tune ruined my truck or more then likely a component issue.

I think for the time being the best course of action for me is to program it back to stock and run it a bit and see if the same problem happenes. From there my logic would be: no problem, tune related..Problem mechanical related....

Agree? disagree?

At 32xxx miles I don't want to wait around to long to see if I need to get it to the dealership before the warranty expires

What I really think is that Bill needs about five alter egos so he can jump in and help you figure out the problem.

I can't believe you'd have oil pressure problems on a new truck. And, if that were the case, the problem would not go away when you returned it to stock. Are you trying to adjust "Custom Options" when you set in a program?

If none of this applies, and if there are no problems running at Level 0, I have to believe the tune is causing the problem.

If you agree, I think you should call Bill ASAP.

- Jack

The only "customizing" I have done with the tuner was to raise the speed limiter to 105 and adjust my tire size. I am going to program to stock in the morning and go from there. I'll keep ya posted.

What is curious is that we've been doing minor camshaft timing adjustments since 2004 and we've never run into this problem before. Even more curious is that on trucks with CAIs, we don't do any camshaft timing adjustments because it seems to induce a little bit of droning.

I'll get a look back in the files and make sure we have no camshaft modifications. This should at least eliminate the possibility of that being the problem.

Question: Is there any specific point it sets the codes? During startup... Driving 40 MPH... Under hard acceleration? Anything you can provide will be helpful.

Take care.

It does not hit when driving at speed. It hits after I have a driven a distance, short or small and then slow to pull into my garage or drive through a parking lot. It starts to run really rough like it is going to stall but does not quite stall.

I have also noticed it is a hard start now. Previously I would turn the key and fire right up after one crank and now it seems to take several cranks. It has never "not" started but I have been worried a time or two. I thought it is possible the battery was in need of replacing as it is 18 months old or so and with the extreme heat we have out here maybe it had gone dead but I am not so sure now. I was up in the mountains today and my truck got snow covered and sat in 24* weather for 6 hours and fired right up on the first try, so I think maybe the battery is ok.

My brother in law is a mechanic and said he thought he had heard of a TSB regarding this very issue so I am going to explore that avenue also.

I'll keep ya posted and try to answer any questions to the best of my ability.

SO quick question. I had gotten a p1000 code and was told somewhere else that is going to be a warranty breaker when I take it in to the shop?

Any ideas if that would be true or if there is a way to get rid of it?

Truck goes in the sho today and has been returned to stock for several days

p1000 means your PCM is witing to complete a drive-cycle. If they see that code at the dealership it tells them one of 2 things:

1. you just disconnected your battery, no big deal
2. you have re-flashed your PCM, big deal

I'll try to find the drive cycle procedure from my Mustang Forum and post it up.

here is what I could find on the driving cycle procedure, here is the link Ford Motor Company Driving Cycle (from Moddedmustangs.com)



Drive Cycle Procedure
Purpose of
Drive Cycle Procedure
Drive Cycle
Preparation

1. Install scan tool. Turn key on with the engine off. Cycle key off, then on. Select appropriate Vehicle & Engine qualifier. Clear all DTC's/ Perform a PCM Reset.

2. Begin to monitor the following PIDs: ECT, EVAPDC, FLI (if available) and TP MODE.
Start vehicle WITHOUT returning to Key Off.

3. Idle vehicle for 15 seconds. Drive at 64 Km/h (40 MPH) until ECT is at least 76.7°C (170° F).

4. Is IAT within 4.4 to 37.8°C (40 to 100° F)? If Not, complete the following steps but, note that step 14 will be required to "bypass " the Evap monitor and clear the P1000. Engine warm-up and provide IAT input to the PCM.
HEGO

5. Cruise at 64 Km/h (40 MPH) for up to 4 minutes. Executes the HEGO monitor.

6. Cruise at 72 to 104 Km/h (45 to 65 MPH) for 10 minutes (avoid sharp turns and hills) Note, to initiate the monitor: TP MODE should =PT, EVAPDC must be >75%, and FLI must be between 15 and 85% Executes the EVAP Monitor (If IAT is within 4.4 to 37.8° (40 to 100°F))

7. Drive in stop and go traffic conditions. Include five different constant cruise speeds, ranging from 40 to 72 Km/h (25 to 45 MPH) over a 10 minute period. Executes the Catalyst Monitor.

8. From a stop, accelerate to 72 Km/h (45 MPH) at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. Repeat 3 times. Executes the EGR Monitor.

9. Bring the vehicle to a stop. Idle with transmission in drive (neutral for M/T) for 2 minutes. Executes the ISC portion of the CCM.

10. For M/T, accelerate from 0 to 80 Km/h (o to 50 MPH), continue to step 11. For A/T, from a stop and in overdrive, moderately accelerate to 80 Km/h (50 MPH) and cruise for at least 15 seconds. Stop vehicle and repeat without overdrive to 64 Km/h (40 MPH) cruising for at least 30 seconds. While at 64 Km/h (40 MPH) , activate overdrive and accelerate to 80 Km/h (50 MPH) and cruise for at least 15 seconds. Stop for at least 20 seconds and repeat step 10 five times. Executes the transmission portion of the CCM.
Misfire & Fuel Monitors

11. From a stop, accelerate to 104 Km/h (65 MPH). Decelerate at closed throttle until 64 Km/h (40 MPH) (no brakes). Repeat this 3 times. Allows learning for the misfire monitor.

12. Access the ON-Board System Readiness (OBDII monitor status) function on the scan tool. Determine whether all non-continuous monitors have completed. If not, go to step 13. Determines if any monitor has not completed. Pending Code Check and Evap Monitor "Bypass" Check

13. With the scan tool, check for pending codes. Conduct normal repair procedures for any pending code concern. Otherwise, rerun any incomplete monitor.
Note: if the EVAP monitor is not complete AND IAT was out of the 4.4 to 37.8° C (40 to 100° F) temperature range in step #4, or the altitude is over 2438 m. (8000 ft.), the Evap "bypass" procedure must be followed.
Proceed to step 14. Determines if a pending code is preventing the clearing of P1000. Evap Monitor "Bypass"

14. Park vehicle for a minimum of 8 hours. Repeat steps 2 through 12. DO NOT REPEAT STEP 1. Allow the "bypass" counter to increment to two.

Well no firm diagnosis yet but they are telling me they think both came are bad as they were getting codes from both sides when they were driving it with there fancy computer hooked up to it. They said posibbly an oil change issue if using poor quality filters something inside the filter might get broke off inside and block some filter

As of now they said it looks like warranty covered cam replacements. It I will let you know for sure when I get the final word

Well after having the truck for a full day they have not yet decided what the problem is or what to do to fix it.

They tell me they have NEVER seen codes from both cams at the same time unless there is an oil issue.

For now I gotz a stinkin rental car that is costing me an arm and a leg.

Bill, I know you said you had not been doing any cam adjustments on vehicles with CAI's but that you were gonna look at mine. Did you get the opportunity to look at the coding?

Aaron,

I went back and looked at all the files we did for you and as I suspected, there are not any camshaft adjustments in your files. Even if there were, I'd have serious doubts that it would cause any sort of problem. I've seen tuning with more aggressive camshaft adjustments than anything we do and it just doesn't cause problems. In fact, the Roush stuff used on the supercharged setups is WAY more aggressive than anything we do and they work quite well.

I'd say that if the camshaft phasers are bad that it is most likely related to a lubrication problem. It's possible something related to the filter could be the cause, but I think even that's highly unlikely. I can't recall ever seeing a bad oil filter in 15 years of automotive service... even the cheap crap that some of the 10 minute oil change places use. I would say that it is more likely that there might have been some rubbish on the "wrong" side of the filter which got pushed into the oil gallery and eventually up into the heads.

Of course, this is all speculation. I guess the dealer will know more when they pull the camshafts out and check to see what's actually restricting oil flow to the cam phasers.

Hope it all works out well. :thumbsup:

Thanks for lookin into it Bill. What you are saying is kinda echoing what the service writer is saying, possibly a bad oil change.

I wonder just how much "Stuff" would have to get through the oil though to cause an issue of this magnitude.

I am more irritated that they had it a whole day and haven't even pulled a valve cover yet to take a look inside. Hopefully I will have a solid answer as to problem, solution and who pays tomorrow morning...

Till then it is me and the sexy silver Sebring...

Hopefully you got the full insurance on the rental. Then you can do this...

http://www.ag.auburn.edu/users/parmega/articles/neon/

This is without question one of the funniest articles I've ever read! If you're not spewing beverage out of your nose by the time you hit "Kaboom!", then you either just don't get it, or you are dead!

Enjoy. :D

:hehe::hehe::evillol::hehe::bow:

Funny!!!!

Couldn't help it!!!!!:hehe:

Then, of course the car goes on the used car market after a year and some dear, little old grandmother buys it.... :giggle:

That was a FUNNY article, Bill. :thumbs up yellow:

- Jack

Caveat Emptor my friend... Caveat Emptor.

Same troble - rough idle
 

:shrug:I had a simialar problem last night - very rough idle almost to the point of stalling while waiting at a light. Everything seemed fine before on highway 1/2hour on return from work. Same truck, motor and tuning. This morning no problem to and from work. Same maintenance regarding oil changes etc. Could not see what codes as my programmer out for repair (self induced).
Trucks stock "trouble" light did not come on either.

Would trouble code(s) stay in the computers memory until I get the programmer back?

Neon on the Juice
 

My daughter looking for cheap used car - guess I'll take the Neon off my list:D

If there are any codes, they should stay in the PCM for at least a few days. If I remember correctly, it is based on the number of key cycles before a non-persistent DTC will clear itself out.

Programmer should be back to you soon. Hang on... :2thumbs:

Sine I am posting this thread over at fordtruckfanatics.com also I am going to cut and paste my last couple of posts from over there into this thread so this thread can stay current on what has happened to date. Here is the thread over there if anyone wants to follow along with other folks responses also.
http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/for...ad.php?t=10003

I alternated colors to indicate different successive posts I have made in the above thread about this issue...

They said throwin like 4 different codes for both side of the engine cams.

And they are pulling the valve covers tomorrow to check the cams and what not. Not exactly sure what they are checking for, abuse, broke, stuck...

All the service writer could say was I have NEVER seen both sides go bad before unless it was related to an oil change with a crappy filter...


I'll keep ya posted.

well if they end up saying it was an oil change issue then i guess im the hook for the bill...no idea how I could put it in walmarts lap...im sure they would say not their fault and throw it in frams lap.

where would it end and how much time and money would it take to prove...

26 hours my car has been in their shop and they are JUST now going to take it on a test drive to see if the oil change THEY wanted to do did the job. They are only working on it now because I called a pitched a fit.

UNBELIEVABLE.

In 17 minutes I will be on my way over to the dealership with a tow truck enroute and have it towed to another dealership for the work if they can't give me a firm answer on what EXACTLY the problem is.

I have owned 13 brand new Fords in my short life and I have NEVER had this poor of customer service from a dealership.

I blame myself really. I have dealt with Drew Ford in La Mesa for all 13 of my vehicle purchases AND all my service. Again I have NEVER had this kind of piss poor customer service from them on any issue I have had them check in to. I was in a bind and Rancho Ford is in Temecula while Drew is 70 miles away. My gut said don't do it but the necessity for a close fix to hopefully avoid a rental car made me choose them.

Learned my lesson

I also want to make this clear to everyone that reads this.

I AM NOT TRYING TO LAY BLAME AT THE FEET OF THE MECHANICS AT ALL THIS IS PURELY A CUSTOMER SERVICE ISSUE TO ME

My frustration is with the service writer and service manager, who after 3 messages has yet to return a call to me. This is about not keeping a customer updated. I am not looking for a minute by minute update but when I am the one that has to call to get an update rather then them calling me, I have an issue. When I am having to decide if I need to rent a car and have to wait till they get back to me at 5:30pm I find that to be an issue. When I am told I will get a call at 0900 and after 4 attempts to call them I finally talk to someone else, I have an issue with that. When I am told they are taking it for a test drive we will call you as soon as they get back and let you know what they found and it is a full two hours later...I have an issue with that.

Sorry but customer service is my pet peeve whether it be a resturant, shoe store or car dealership. If you don't want to be in customer service then
there are plenty of other jobs out there...

/rant

So I got a call a few ago telling me my truck was ready and the problem has been resolved, or resolved itself.

They said all they did was an oil change and that corrected the condition. They ran it for a bit and did not get any codes. They said when they drained the old oil it came out brown and gritty...

I have not picked up the truck yet so I do not know what the paperwork says but I will let you know if it says any different when I get it.

I have taken a few things from this incident:
1) Rancho Ford in Temecula has horrible customer service. Stick with established dealership relationships like I have always preached in the past and these types of incidents can probably be avoided. Shame on me for not following my own advice.
2) As much as I have defended Wal-Mart's oil changes as being fine, because of this bad experience I will not take my truck back to them for service.
3) the 2009 Chrysler Sebring, while cute, has less guts then a 3 legged donkey.

OH YEAH ALL FIXED...I DIDN'T EVEN FREAKIN MAKE IT HOME BEFORE IT DID THE EXACT SAME THING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FREAKIN IDIOTS AT THAT DEALERSHIP ALL THE WAY AROUND. I'M NOT A MECHANIC AND I CAN SEE AND HEAR IT AIN'T WORKING RIGHT

These are their notes word for word.


"Eng runs really rough and the ck eng light is not on

Check engine light on eec test codes p0012 p0022 p0340 pinpoint test. log data. found vct errors of -53 deg. recommend change oil and filter then retest. road test after service. retest pass."

Both of their test drives combined were 6 miles. My drive home from the dealership is 6 miles. problem happened about 4 miles into drive for me.

Another user was kind enough to give me the trouble codes meanings. His post.

This is rapidly turning from a problem to a nightmare.

Aaron,

I can't believe how bad this is getting for you. It sounds like all they wanted to do was throw $15.00 oil change at it and blow you out the door. :(

Stupid question now, but did they happen to save any of the "gritty" oil they drained form the engine or the oil filter? Without question, gritty oil is a sign of a MUCH MORE SERIOUS PROBLEM and an oil change isn't going to fix it.

Given the nature of the issue and the gritty oil, it almost sounds like the timing chain followers/guides are getting worn down and particles are flowing into the oil. This is just a guess as I don't know the nature of the "grit" and whether it was metallic or plastic.

When you have a minute, start the engine and run it for a minute to sling oil onto the dipstick. Then pull the dipstick and check the oil. DO NOT wipe the dipstick down, but feel the oil to see if it has any sort of a gritty feel. Also, check the oil residue on the dipstick to see if there are any shiny "flakes" floating in it. If you see anything that looks like really fine glitter then it's a safe bet the engine is going to have to come out. If you don't see any shine particles but the oil still feels a bit gritty, then it's possible that the timing chain guides have become damaged and the timing chain is literally filing away parts of the plastic.

What also concerns me is that even if there is garbage in the oil, the filter should be handling it. What I'm afraid of is that whatever "grit" was in the oil may have actually clogged the filter to the point that it started to bypass it and pump unfiltered oil to the internals, which of course includes the cam phasers. You can see where this is going to end up and it's not good.

I don't know what else to tell you, but if there's anything we can do to help let us know.

Good luck.

Thanks for your response bill. No I doubt they saved any of the oil. It is going into a different dealer on Monday

Now the problem is that any evidence of the true underlying problem may have been cleared out of the computer when they reset all the codes and dumped away when they changed the oil. Just going to make it harder for the mechanic to figure out and possibly in the shop longer

Frustrating for sure

I agree with you that it is going to be harder to diagnose. Still, my concern is that there may be other internal issues. Check that oil if you get a chance. If there's enough garbage to cause the DTC, it's possible you will be able to see or feel it in the oil.

Also, I don't mean to sound negative towards your engine's prospects, but I am the kind of person who looks at the worst possible scenario and then goes back from there. It could be something stupidly simple and in the hands of a competent technician it would be resolved quickly.

Keep us posted. :coffee:

Well now i have a check engine light also...

DTCs?? Are they the same ones as before?

Yep the same codes.

I checked the dipstick like you said and there is no metal flakes in it NOR any grittiness.

Couple people I have talked to think that because there was a TSB on aftermarket oil filters that they claimed grittiness, did the oil change and called it a day simply clearing the codes without doing any ACTUAL diagnosis as to the real problem.

I do find it ironic, funny, something that the tech would say the oil was brown and gritty yet that didn't show up on ANY paperwork.

I would think that would certainly be note worthy if it had in fact happened. Leads me to believe more and more that the "brown gritty oil" statement made to me by the service writer was A) fabricated by him for an unknown reason or B) fabricated by the mechanic for whatever reason.

Noteworthy for no other reason the to work to deny a warranty claim..I'm sure the oil was instantly discarded in their oil tank and could in no way EVER be recovered to see it for our own eyes.

Welp the truck went into a NEW dealership today. Has been my second choice behind DREW for some time laziness prevented me fromtaking it there in the first place.

Service adviser called me at noon today saying she and the service manager had taken it for a test drive to see if the problem could be duplicated and her response was "OH MY GOD I DIDN"T KNOW IF WE WOULD MAKE IT BACK TO THE DEALERSHIP"

They did some sort of "pinpoint" test she called it and determined there were no electrical issues. First thing in the morning they are going to pull the valve covers off and check a solenoid? to see if it is working. If that is the problem then a replacement and I'll be good to go. If not then appaerntly they tear the engine down enough to pull the cam phasers and cams?

Either way my truck has been there since about 10am and I have gotten 3 calls. One to let me know it got there ok, 1 to let me know the results of the test drive and 1 a few ago to let me know they finished the electrical testing and would be pulling the valves tomorrow. Total time on the phone with the service writer....About 3 minutes. Is that too much to ask?

Glad to see Customer service IS still alive.

I'll keep ya posted.

Sounds like you've found the right dealer! Good on you and good on them! :thumbs up yellow:

- Jack

Okay did anyone at any time perform a viscosity test on the oil?

Fords are some of the pickiest vehicles on the market for needing the right oil.
Put the wrong stuff in either wrong weight or vicosity and you will eventually end up with problems.

Our engines are grand kids to the GT 40 and IRL.

On the heads the cams have hydralic timing dampeners. These allow the motor to have more torque on the low end. Putting a heavier oil in like 10w is enough to not allow the proper oil flow and so potential plugging of the tiny oil ports might happen or insufficient oil equals premature rapid acceleration of wear.
Maybe a newbee at walley world messed up to begin with. Put the wrong barrel on the wrong feed hose or maybe the wrong oil period.
Another thing to think of when getting oil for changing is to make sure it meets fords specs.
Another thought maybe bad cams or chains or sensors.
But I feel the viscosity test was important if that was the problem. Walley world would have had to foot the bill.

Lars

No testing of oil done as far as I know. First dealer changed oil and claimed "brown and gritty" but I am now doubting that claim. It does not show up on any paperwork or diagnosis. Nothing was made of the Fram oil filter it had on it either. Now it has fresh motorcraft oil and a motorcraft filter. If that was the problem I'm guessing it would be hard to prove or even confidently say that at this point.

If you brought a vehicle into the dealer here with those codes. The viscocity tests is one of their tried and true tests to get out of a warranty claim. But that is just one of their many process of elimination proceedures.

And to my understanding there is more people out there running the wrong weight or less than spec oil.

There are so many variables in this situation.

My rules on oil changes
1). I buy the oil and filter.
2). I do the change or bring it to a place where I supervise.
3). Viscosity tests are done on both new and used oil.
4). For whatever reason the vehicle never leaves my sight!!!
5). Anything dropped on floor gets inspected thoroly. If oil filter gets dropped that one is thrown, and another new one comes out of the box.
6) Always check dipstick for oil before departing service center.

Sounds kind of anal doesn't it. Sometimes other peoples mistakes will haunt you for the rest of your life.

Lars.

I'll find out tomorrow what the dealership says.

So far they had it checked out electricaly on Monday and it checked OK. Tuesday they had a down day because of a prior, more pressing truck they had been waiting for parts to.

Today I guess they took the valve covers off.

Cam's look good, phasers look lined up. No scarring, chaffing or whatever on the heads. Said there is NO indication maintance or abuse is an issue. Service writer said "Heads don't lie"

They did find they have a loss of oil pressure somewhere, they are going to try and pinpoint tomorrow. Said the noise I heard was metal on metal from lack of lubrication due to a failure somewhere. Looking at the oil pump I guess tomorrow. Service writer said it could be it failed/failing causing the low oil pressure. Funny thing is I NEVER got an idiot light and it always checked "OK" when I ran the onboard status check thing.

Said worst case scenario is a new engine, that was what they had to do last time she saw a similar situation. Best case scenario is oil pump and replace any associated parts.

Either way it is me and the Chevy Impala for at least a few more days.

Said she had every indication based on what she saw and has been told that this will be a warranty issue.

Hopefully this dealership will get you fixed up as good as new, sucks to read about all of the problems you have been having...good luck dude:thumbs up yellow:

There's a reason we call it the "Idiot Light"! :eek: It won't show a problem until about 5-8 psi. Can you imagine how much damage you can do with pressure that low? It's crazy.

Glad to hear Ford is stepping up and fixing it. I know where you'll be going (not to mention recommending) from now. :thumbs up yellow:

I am cautiously optimistic....

They have some more tests to do tomorrow to figure EXACTLY what the problem is/was.

Just by chance they have a Ford engineer coming to the dealership tomorrow so they will get his input also.

What she said was that if she did not think this was going to be a warranty issue she would have asked for money before they went any further...

Like I said it ain't a done deal yet but...

You are correct... I may have spoke out of turn. It's done when it's done. Until then, I remain optimistic like yourself.

I am intrigued as to what they find to be the cause of the oiling issue. Whether it's something in the pickup, pump, filter boss, or oil galleries, it's sure going to be interesting.

We'll keep our fingers crossed for you! :meditation:

But at least this dealership seems to know what they're doing. Not like the first one and I'm glad you have the receipt for the work done (or not done) there. I remain optimistic too.

- Jack

Keep us posted.
Hope everything goes well.
Thanx for the updates.

Lars

Well the saga continues.

Call from the service writer today and she said they put the valve covers back on and put it back together so they could do some more tests. Said there is a definite oil pressure issue in the bottom end.

Said the PSI at the filter? was less then 20psi at idle and normal should be around 25psi?

They were going to call Ford back after lunch, tell them their findings and go from there...
__________________

Just hang in there!

Lars

Ok been a few days so here is where I am right now. Service writer called friday around noon and said they had it all buttoned back up and finished up their testing. Said a couple of things.

1)did want service records because when they are looking at repairs of this magnitude Ford is going wo want to make sure someone has seen them to make sure regular maintance has been done. She also said her mechanic did not see any signs or evidence that the engine had been abused or improperly maintained. Said the service records thing is just a check box on their list of things to have/see/inspect or whatever. Not an issue because again there had been no evidence of any of that stuff. as she said "The heads don't lie". Told me they would be talking to Ford in the coming week.

This is where I get a little upset Not mad at the dealership mind you but more about the circumstances. The dealership is doing the best they can given the hand they have been dealt.
2) She told me they could not even start tearing down the truck until the week of the 24th, after they talked to Ford. I confirmed she meant March 24th and when she said yes I told her that was completly unacceptable. I told her there was no way I could afford to make my truck payment AND a rental car payment for that length of time. They would have to cover the rental car, or at least part of it if my truck was going to sit idle on their lot for 3-4 weeks. I told her if her shop was just too busy for one customer to monopolize that much of the shops time I would need to get it to a larger dealership with more mechanics available. I understand they are not a "Mega" dealership and I am not their oinly customer. She put me on hold for a minute or so and then came back. Said she had talked to her Service manager and he didn't like the situation either and would see what he could do. Agreed to call me back later.

3) She calls back later with "Good news" I'm not sure exactly what happened but she told me they were going to tear down on the 9th of March. Still not great but WAY better then 24th. Said she would still like me to get service records but it sounded like they had already talked to Ford and gotten approval. Her words to me were "If it was going to be denied we would have asked you for money and written permission to tear down your truck"
She said they still can not cover the rental car but when they submitted everything to Ford once it was done they were going to submit my rental car reciepts and request reimbursement for them also. In the mean time she told me I should call ford and pitch a fit that my rental car is not currently being covered because this is a warranty claim. Especially since I will prolly be in the rental car until AT LEAST the 16th depending on parts.

4) Said it could be the oil pump OR it could be something yet to be discovered. Either way fixing them involves getting into the bottom end of the engine so the time involved in that is about the same regardless of what is wrong at that point.

SO it's me and the Impala for a while longer. The impala is a nice car. Good size, nice power, nicely equiped, rides nice. I would reccomend it if someone was looking for a family car.

Waiting for the teardown on march 9th...Meanwhile rental cars are expensive!

I have been in limbo for a bit so I waited to update.

I got the news a few days ago that the engine was toast. It needed either a complete rebuild or a whole new engine.

Service writer said they had to call Ford to get approval and that prolly meant sending out one of their engineers to look it over. They had to get the final tear down done early this week and hoped to have the engineer out by Friday and a decision by Monday.

This morning the service writer called and said the ole good news/bad news. Good news was that Ford gave them the authorization for a brand new engine. The bad news is that it would take a few days to get and then a few more days to install. She said when she initally called Ford they said ahhhhh NOPE. Her service manager called back and did whatever it is he did and came back with an authorization number for a new engine.

She is supposed to call back with a few more details this afternoon, maybe I can persuade them to drop in a 6.4....

Anyway, needless to say I am happy with the news.

I had some friends ask me over the last week or so if I would buy another Ford if they denied my warranty claim and I said YOU BET. I still feel that Ford makes the best OVERALL truck on the market and would have a hard time seeing myself in another brand. They all have their good and bad points but I really like Ford. I use the "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" analogy to them. Every brand has an issue at some point in time.

Aaron,

That's awesome news! I'm quite glad to hear that Ford is still able to show their integrity when dealing with warranty issues. I'm disappointed it's taking so long to get it done, but I can't imagine where you'd be at if you were still at that other dealership. Probably still sitting in the parking lot, I'd suspect.

Have a great weekend. :2thumbs:

so in the end of it all did you ever find out what the prob was with the old engine? or what actually caused it?

Well I talked to the service writer again today. Unfortunately no 6.4 in my F150's future.

She told me after tearing it down they found a tear in some sort of seal or gasket. That tear caused the engine to burn oil and subsequently kill the engine.

Seal fail first or oil pump fail first? Chicken or the egg was her response. Couldn't tell which went first but they both went causing failure.

Ford is picking up the tab for the engine and hopefully part of my rental car.

The game plan was finishing pulling the engine out today (Friday). New engine should be here this weekend and they hope to have me back in my truck on Tuesday..WOOHOO.

I asked about warranty for the engine and she said that is kind of the bad news. If a customer pays for the engine it comes with a warranty, If Ford replaces it then the warranty only last the inital 3/36. An extended warranty is pretty reasonable and she said they would cut me a deal so I will probably do that.

Apparently the "Tear" is a known defect in the 5.4 engines.

They also called the first dealer that I had taken it to and the first dealer told them:

"There was almost no oil in the engine and that what little oil that was in there was brown and gritty"

This service writer called BS on them asking them why that wasn't written down on any paperwork anywhere and they had no explanation.

Well I went up to the shop today to check on my trucks status and snapped a few pics. They have the new engine dropped in already and man does it look clean.
As long as the truck is in the shop I'm also gonna have:
The fuel filter changed
The tranny flushed and inspected
A brake job.
Basically the 30,000 mile check up before I get her back Tuesday (hopefully) Prolly cost me a couple hundred bucks but it needs to be done and the shop has treated me right so I think I owe it to em.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/DSCF1622.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/DSCF1621.jpg

So did they replace it with a short block or a long block? If the long block option did you get lucky and get the new updated heads? If the new cop boots are brown then you could have the updated heads. Ask the service person.

Thank you

Lars
:2thumbs:

FINALLY, My truck has come home.

SO in the end the truck ended up needing a new engine. I will post up the service order so people smarter then me can read it and see what the dealership actually said about it.

On top of having the engine done I had them check the tranny and drain and replace the fluid, new fuel filter and rear brakes were in need of being done and of course new oil filter/oil etc.

The rental car cost me $1100 and change for 21 days. I am hoping to get reimbursed at least a little from Ford for it but I don't know. Guess their standard rate is $28/day so even if they just gave me that it would be $588 which would be half and totally fair as far as I am concerned because part of my cost was that I paid for the extra insurance on the rental car and would not expect them to pick up that cost.

Engine is pretty, stock intake was re-installed for a variety of reasons so if anyone is looking for a Bansk intake for their truck I am going to post up in the classifieds with it.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/DSCF1627.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/DSCF1629.jpg

Glad everything got straighten out for you! :beers:

Our hats off to your dealer. They are awesome! We need to keep their number handy in case anyone else in the area could use a good dealer.

Now that I think about it... I think we'll make a section where we cal list reputable shops and dealers to get service from. Lord knows there are a lot of good ones, but also a number of bad ones. We can post it in the FAQ section and make updates as needed.

If anyone has any suggestions, please PM me or Corey and we'll get the ball rolling.

Aaron, make sure to get me the dealer's information including service manager, service writer and tech names. We'll make sure to include them in the list.

Congrats on getting the motor in and done!

Just one question. DOES YOUR MOTOR HAVE THE NEW HEADS?

Lars