Customizing Canned Tunes.
 

I was trying to customize the level 2 towing tune and it is not going well. If I load it and then go back in and "load previous settings" and make my changes it runs like crap. It idles ruff and the gas smell burns your eyes. If I make the changes as I load the tune it loads fine but I can't see the changes made and if I go and load the previous changes to look it goes back to running like crap again. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

Hmmmm... Not sure what's going on. A couple questions:

1) The first time you went into Custom Options, did you "Load Previous Settings" or did you make initial changes?

2) What are the parameters you modified and what values did you put in?

3) If you make all changes manually, does everything run OK? (I'm assuming from the post, this is the case)

4) When you do "Load Previous Settings" and go through the parameters you modified, do they look correct?

Let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.

1) The first time I tried to change the settings the Load Previous Settings option did not show up. So I changed some of the parameters hit enter to save and done when it was complete.

2) I used a version of what Bluejay did to his truck. I didn't really change anything too much. I don't have the sheet with me right now as I am at work but basically just shift firmness (1,1,0), wot fuel (I tried to use 1.5 here but it would only go as high as 1.3), speed limiter (125), wot shift points (I think that is what it was called = 5200,5200,4800), and gears and tires. I think I remembered them all.

3) If I don't use the Load Previous Settings button and just load the level 2 tune and change the tires and gears it does but I can't tell if the changes took.

4) If I Load Previous Settings it makes all the changes I did the very first time around even though I have returned to stock and reloaded the level 2 tune several times with just changing the gears and tires. I thought the Load Previous Settings function would load the very last thing that was in the computor which right now should be the level 2 towing tune with just the tires and gears changed.

I probably should add that it is a 2003 F150 FX4 4x4 with the 5.4.

grizz, I don't see ANYTHING in your custom options that would cause a rough idle or funny gas smell. It sure sounds to me like for some reason you are running (idling) way rich, and I can't think of any setting you have access to that would cause that to happen.

When you return to stock, does it idle properly and does the exhaust smell normal?

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean when you say: "If I don't use the Load Previous Settings button and just load the level 2 tune and change the tires and gears it does but I can't tell if the changes took." What are you looking for to "see if the changes took"? (I don't see anything - except that the speed and odometer readings are correct).

I'm with you on being puzzled about some of the settings being reloaded even though you don't ask for them though. If I get what you are saying right, you are seeing the shift firmness still at +1, +1, 0 and the Max speed at 125, even though you don't "reload previous settings"?

I suppose one approach would be to use the Custom Options menu to reset everything to the settings Bill gave you when he wrote your tune, or was this the "canned tow tune"?

- Jack

When I return to stock or even just use the level 2 tune with no changes other than tire and gears it seems to run normal.

I read a post of yours on f150 that said it was best to load the canned tune as is first then go back and rechoose it and then Load Previous Settings and then make your changes. If I do that it runs like crap and reaks of gas. Anytime I use the Load Previous Settings button it does this. If I make the changes while I load the tune I can't see they have been changed. Is there no way to tell if the changes you made were loaded by looking at the unit?

I get all that if I do Load Previous Settings even though I have put it back to stock and loaded the canned tow tune with just tires and gear changes two times now. I assumed that the Previous Settings would be the ones last stored in the unit and these are being dug up from 4 loads ago.

I am waiting for Bills tunes. I just had the unit show up in the mail last Thursday. I just wanted to play with it a little first as I heard I am looking at 3 months minimum for my custom tunes. I am not worried about the wait I just wanted to get used to the way the unit works and try a few things out while I do.

grizz, if you read one of my last posts to you over on the f150online forum, you'll see I'm still not sure I understand this "Load Previous Settings" bit at all. And, Bill, I know you've tried to explain it to me, but my feeble little brain seems unable to grasp something - sorry!

Here's a direct link to what I told you there (for anyone who would like to see it): http://www.f150online.com/forums/3598500-post28.html

The only thing you're going to see on the display screen that shows you are running a custom tune is a number in the upper right corner. If you're on Level 2, you'll see a 2 there. You have to take it on faith that other settings have been applied. Some will be obvious. If, for instance you set your shift firmness settings to +10 and then tried a WOT acceleration, you'd definitely feel a difference from 0 at all shifts. If you raise your idle speed, you would see the change if you monitored the RPM on the Gryphon.

You could even floor the thing until you hit MAX RPM and then you'd feel it "cut out". Change the limit RPM and you'd feel the cut out at a different RPM.

That's about the only way I know to test for new settings.

Bottom line though - if it runs good, don't worry and be happy!

- Jack

Thanks JandJ, your doing the same thing as me and hopping back and forth between both these forums. I did see your post on f150 and replied. I will play with it some more and actually drive it and see how it works.

It is good to know that you just have to assume your settings loaded I was trying to check and get a visual confirmation but if you can't you can't.

I think most of my concerns have been answered. I would like to figure out the Load Previous Settings thing but if I can go around it and have it work that will do for now.

After looking a the code, Load Previous Settings will load in ALL currently modified values including ones that were changed 2, 3, or more sessions prior. I'm not really sure if this was the intended design of that function but I can see where it would cause a fair amount of confusion.

After giving it some thought, I think I will look at revamping the custom options menus to eliminate some of the problem associated with it. One thing I will include is the ability to determine if a parameter has been modified and put a "*" next to it for visual aid. I think that will be a tremendous help for people making custom adjustments.

I don't know when I'll be able to actually make the changes but will get it in as soon as I possibly can.

I guess in the mean time, disregard the Load Previous Settings and just enter the modifications by hand and make sure all that is working correctly.

So it does hang on to past changes. Now if I can just figure out what I did in there the first time to screw it up I'm all set but for now I will be happy the way it is set up currently.

Thanks Bill.

Fair amount of confusion is an understatement, Bill! I think maybe I'm catching a slight glimmer of what's happening though. It WOULD be nice to have the changes to the menu you are thinking of. I sure wouldn't spend time on it right away though if you have custom tunes for people hanging in the fire. (Unless, of course, you need a break from that task and you feel like a different challenge).

I'm still very puzzled about grizz's truck sounding like it was running rich at idle. How in the world could he have altered the idle mixture? And, if it wasn't that, what else would give those symptoms? :shrug:

- Jack

Not a clue at this point. However, if he can recreate the issue I can look at the built custom file and see what happened.

To retrieve the file, plug the unit into the USB, run Pegasus and select [Utilities] -> [Retrieve Critical Files]. This will read the files from the programmer. E-mail me the CUSTOM file and I can see what's wrong.

Hope this helps.

Hopefully, he won't TRY to recreate the issue - I wouldn't! :) But, should this happen to anyone else, I'll try to keep it in my memory banks.

- Jack

There still is a problem. I can't change anything other than tires, gears and shift firmness or it will not work no matter how I change it. The last time I tried it would not even start until I changed it back. I am assuming you don't have to go back to stock first every time you change something on level 2. I have just been loading level 2 and making the changes before it loads (not using the load previous settings option).

The unit does say it is on 2 but other than the shifts being way to hard I could not really feel any significant power difference. I ended up putting the shift firmness down to -5, -5, -6 to soften them up and it still slams into gear between 1st and 2nd when I stand on it. I suspect this is because of my Factory Tech Separator Plate but I thought 0 would be factory stock settings is that not the case? Or does the level 2 add shift firmness and that is considered the new 0 and you adjust it up and down from there? If that is the case how much does it add so I know how much to take out? Will having the firmness that far in the negatives harm my transmission?

As for running Pegasus, what are the minimum computer requirements? My home computer basically just keeps my desk at home from blowing away and is going to be replaced as soon as I can.

Sorry to be a PIA but I am just trying to figure out what is happening here.

Thanks.

Bump for answers to the above.

That plate is likely causing the hard shifts you don't like. When you load a tune in any level, the shift firmness is automatically increased and becomes a new "0" setting. Ever since I got my programmer, I thought the firmness was about right at this new point and I never wanted to set it higher. (I did try it once and didn't like the feel). But, if your plate adds it's own "firmness increment", then the "0" point is possibly too hard for you.

I say all this without having any clear knowledge of what a factory tech separator plate really does, but I can sort of guess that it possibly acts something like a clutch plate?

I don't think you can hurt anything by reducing the shift firmness more. It sounds like you're happy with settings of -5 and -6 for the 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts, but still don't like the feel at 1-2 at high RPM. The gear change is not too high at that point, so the engine gets back to a high RPM fairly quickly. I'd have no hesitation in reducing the firmness to -10 on the 1-2 upshift and even more than that if it's still not quite enough.

The effect of reducing firmness is to prolong the slip in the transmission that occurs as the speeds on both sides are equalizing. Some slip is both normal and desired. It would be damaging if no slip at all occurred.

You do not have to go back to stock tune between changing tunes. You can even reprogram at the same level without changing anything, or you could change just one thing, like the 1-2 upshift firmness.

I just had another thought: I wonder how you'd like it if you left the firmness settings alone and reduced the WOT RPM shift point(s)? Again, this should not hurt anything, but might "tame" things a bit without really hurting performance.

Any computer running XP is fine for Pegasus. There have been some problems with Vista, and Bill has added instructions in the Pegasus manual for Vista users.

Anyone else with better thoughts?

- Jack

The Factory Tech Separator Plate is more or less a shift kit. It would be nice to know how much shift firmness the Gryphon is adding so I know how much to take out without the trial and error as I am still having problems getting the level 2 to load and take the changes I want. Bill maybe you can field that one when you get time.

WOT shift points is one of the options mine does not like me to change but if I ever figure out why I would love to try it.

My truck sits around a lot so my battery may have not been fully charged when I was loading these would that make any difference? It was starting normal and running fine when started but it probably wasn't sitting at the 12.6 volts of a fully charged battery.

There is an option in the menu that says something to the effect of "Return to Factory Settings" will this change all the parameters (even the Load Previous Setting Function) back to original settings?

I will try to load the Pegasus software onto the home computer this weekend (hopefully) and figure out how that will help me. Is there any important updates that I might have to load into the Gryphon? I assumed that it came up to date but if it does not that would be good to know too.

Gryphons and Edges don't program well when the battery voltage is low. If you have any doubt, connect a low amp (2-10 amp) charger and leave it on while you are programming.

I don't understand what it "doesn't like" about adjusting WOT shift points. What does it do when you try to change them? And, verify that you're doing it this way: Select a shift point, say 1-2. You will see a number that represents a WOT RPM, let's say you see 5400 and you want to raise it. Push the up arrow until you see the value you want, let's say 5800 (and remember that your max RPM needs to be at least 400 above this to prevent erratic shifting). Once yu see 5800, hit <Enter> and you'll be back in the WOT shift menu. How does your experience differ from this description?

I'm sorry, but I don't recall the "Factory Settings" option in the menu. I'm not saying it's not there, I'm just saying I don't remember seeing it and I'm reluctant to go out and reload a tune just to see this.

Pegasus is used more to upload firmware and tune changes into your Gryphon than anything else. It DOES have a handy calculator in it though to calculate your tire size with squish. (Or to figure out a gear change to get back what you lose by changing to bigger or smaller tires).

- Jack

I am going to put the charger on it tonight on 2 amp and let it charge up fully, then I will load the program, with the charger on, and make all the changes I want to make and see if that works.

It goes back to what was happening before. If I adjust anything else other than tires, gears and shift firmness my truck freaks out. If it even starts it will idle like a race car and push enough fuel to make your eyes burn.

I know Bill is busy but I would kill to get an answer on the bolded question above does anyone else know? :help:

Please... fill in the personal and vehicle information so I can have some reference of who this is and what we're working on.

In regards to the shifting, please note that the Custom Option is labeled "SHIFT FIRMNESS", not Shift Pressure. There is a reason for this. This option does NOT change shift pressure, but instead changes the time delay between the offgoing clutch and the oncoming clutch and is calculated in percentage change from the current values. As for how much pressure is added to each shift, there is no flat value. Heavier throttle/higher speeds have more pressure than light throttle/low speed. If I had to give a ROUGH value, I'd say 5, 6, and 8 PSI for the 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4, respectively.

One thing to keep in mind is that all Custom Options make changes to the MODIFIED file values (ie. Level 1, 2 or 3), not the stock file values. In other words, if the 1-2 shift delay on Level 2, for example, is 450 milliseconds and you set the 1-2 Shift Firmness option to +5%, you end up with about 425 milliseconds delay. If you set it to -10, you get 495 milliseconds.

If you are running a valve body plate and need the shifting corrected, you'll need to have a file built to eliminate ALL shift pressure and delay modifications. There's really no other way around it.

As for the other custom issues, again I'll need to know what vehicle and calibration codes we are dealing with before I can look into it any further.

Take care.

Since you haven't installed Pegasus (why not?), it's pretty obvious you haven't done this (from Bill's post earlier in this thread): To retrieve the file, plug the unit into the USB, run Pegasus and select [Utilities] -> [Retrieve Critical Files]. This will read the files from the programmer. E-mail me the CUSTOM file and I can see what's wrong.

Y'know, I think you're going to HAVE to do this if you expect Bill to be able to help you. And, I'm sure Bill can give you some idea about the relative value of the shift firmness, but I imagine it's not a simple matter of the "firmness points" that you see on your menu. I'd guess the effect to be in the neighborhood of about +10 for each of the shifts over stock, but it could easily be more.

But, install Pegasus and retrieve the custom file you've created so Bill can help you.

(Bill you're too quick for me!) You got your answer in right before I posted this. And, nice to know I was sort of right about the way shifting is modified - not the simple adding "firmness" property we have on the menu.

- Jack