Advantages of having a gryphon php?
 

I was just wondering what gains have you guys seen in your vehicles performance ever since you guys have installed the programmer? I also have a cai installed in my truck and just wanted to know if anyone else has this and does the tuner compliment it very well, as in do they improve the performance of the vehicle better together as opposed to having one over the other. I know that the tuner helps solve the lean problem that the truck has, but disregard that. And does the tuner change the sound of the truck? Thanks for the replies in advance.

Also which would be better for a daily driver as far as throttle response, acceleration. Performance or tow. (obviously tow is more for pulling something) which one do you guys use the most. I ordered 91 performance and 89 tow.

A programmer won't change the sound, except for possibly eliminating the terrible "drone" some CAI's produce.

The big issue is, that Bill can't really tune the truck to make the CAI an "additive" feature, performance wise. The CAI introduces so many negative issues, that Bill has to take care of them and that involves "de-tuning" to a certain extent.

The better approach is to use your CAI as a rain gutter downspout extension on your house and perform the "Gotts Mod" change to your OEM CAI. (Yes, the OEM intake IS a true CAI, with a restricted inlet. Most aftermarket CAI's are really WAIs, Warm Air Intakes, since they position the inlet in the engine compartment.)

Gains? Well, I have much improved shifting while passing. It feels like I have more low end power and, I am getting better gas mileage.

- Jack

I never noticed a drone from my CAI, but if it's there I'm glad it'll be somewhat eliminated! :cheesy smile:

Well the intake I installed is actually pretty good imo, the only thing it really changed was that it gave me a smoother tubing that connects to the throttle body, and it relocated the airfilter from the throttle body and put it right onto the wheel weld. Basically where the stock intake was connected. I've seen the gotts mod, and I don't think that's suppose to be put onto the 04-08 body style, I believe it's the DWV Mod that works with this generation. So basically aside from smoother tubing, the changed placement of the airfilter, and an added auxilary airscoop (which yes, does get added air from the engine bay) It's very much like stock, also it is sealed. I don't know if that makes sense or what. This is the intake, afe stage II 54-80512 to get the idea.

Are the gains significantly noticeable? What I mean by significant is could you tell the difference from what it felt like before from what it drove like after the installation? I know it's not going to add like 50 hp and 55 tq. But was it evident enough to where it was noticeable?

Thanks for your reply Jack, I really appreciate it. Your comment is well noted.

Lol actually you were mentioned in the thread in the post I was referring to regarding the DWV/Gotts mod. They said you also adapted the gotts mod to work on this generation. Maybe I should have done this mod, but I am actually quite fond of the intake I have installed already and don't really want to remove it lol.

This is the version I was talking about. http://forum.gopowerhungry.com/resou...-pictures.html It works for 04-08 trucks. I don't know what year your truck is, so I can't tell if you need to use a different version.

The AFE looks like it could have modified the MAF environment, which is a potential source of destructive trouble, but Bill's tunes can compensate for that.

Smooth is not necessarily "best". Airflow, with the "pulsed" suction that the cylinders give, forms pressure waves in the inlet that can cause both performance reducing interference and "noise". The resonators on the stock intake are there to reduce/eliminate this. (It's a bit like "noise canceling earphones" you buy for long airline flights.)

Bill has said the Gotts version causes NO adverse effects. He is not so charitable with the commercial CAIs. I happen to share his opinion.

Are the gains with a programmer noticeable? They were for me. The passing performance was greatly improved and I am certain I've gained in the fuel economy area. The "feeling of power" is a bit more subjective, but I think I've gained there too.

Now, I don't recommend you alter your first post with new questions. People will miss these. Put them in a new post (but in the same thread).

To answer them: I have an 87 Performance and an 87 Tow tune. I use the tow tune whenever I hook the trailer up and don't change it until I return home, even if I disconnect the trailer at times. (DO NOT change tunes in the boondocks!) If I'm not on a towing trip, I use the 87 performance tune.

Why just 87 tunes? Because the engine is designed for 87 octane gas. It does not have the compression ratio to really take advantage of a higher octane blend. Yes, the high priced stuff MAY give you "better" performance, with an adjusted tune, but at what price? Do the two balance out? And, can you always get the higher octane blend everywhere you drive? Using a higher octane gas is not harmful, but using a lower octane gas than the tune is designed for IS harmful.

And, you probably know this, but some people don't. High octane gas is NOT "better" gas, it just has a lower resistance to ignition and burns slower.

So, those are my thoughts for today.

- Jack

I have an 04 XLT 5.4l.

Yeah that's what everyone says, which is why I'm getting a tuner to
counteract it. I see. I've seen some gains from this intake so I don't
really want to replace the old one back in, it actually has a crack on
the box of the airfilter (stock). I've noticed better throttle response.
As far as MPG when I had the stock intake I went 356 miles, and the
afe took me to 382. I drive pretty consistently so I love the difference
that it has given me. But thanks for giving me a break down for stock
intake. I appreciate it. I just always thought it looked pretty restrictive
with all those chambers.

That's exactly what I was looking for, I wanted a little more gain in the
mpg. I know the power is not really reliable because anyone who buys
something expects to see some improvement so they do "see it" if that
makes sense. Like the placebo effect. But one could speculate that there
will be some gain "power" wise.

Okay, I'll stop editing my posts. I just didn't want to keep on putting
new posts, so I just added on.

I was thinking of that, but I regularly put in 89 myself. I know it's not
necessarily better gas I just wanted a little more oomph you could say
when I accelerate. I ordered 91 because at the bottom of the gryphon
php page I got confused with the red paragraph saying it's better to get
87 and 91 instead of 89 and 91. So I thought that they were saying that
I shouldn't get the same octane for both custom tunes or I'd be wasting
my money kind of thing.

I know my motorcycle can't get anything lower than 91 because it would
put too much wear on my engine. 01 CBR. I didn't realy know that but
you learn something new. I actually thought they just burned easier.

Thanks Jack for your input and information it is invaluable to me and
appreciate the time you put into replying to me.

Just to add on to Jack's posts, I also noticed a distinct upgrade to the power during passing. Also the quickness of the shifts on top of the extra hp makes me hate going back to stock! :D
I have an 05 XLT with the 5.4 just for reference.
Also the 89 octane, if the engine isn't tuned for it, really can't provide more oomph. It also won't help in gas mileage for the same reasons as power.
How it works is that the octane makes it burn slower under the same pressure, or burn at the same rate under higher pressure. This is an advantage in high compression motors, such as your motorcycle, or most racing engines, but in our trucks it isnt necessary, and they can't take advantage of it without tuning. With some octanes, I dont think 89 is far enough off of what our trucks are designed for, it can actually hurt gas mileage and power because it burns too slow. this could possibly leave unburned gas in the cylinder which would then exit out the exhaust and possibly causing backfires or in racing motors that cool blue fire :smiley_roll1:.
Hope I helped you and everyone understand more :), and if I am wrong, feel free to correct me! :D

I see. Well good thing I don't use premium then =) That is very informative and
thanks for it. I'm sure 89 is just fine for the tank and hopefully since the tuner
will be programmed for 89 I'll get that gain from using a higher octane level. I do
want to get some kind of gain especially in passing, acceleration, and a little more
hp. This is the first Ford I've ever owned and I'm impressed. I guess it might be be-
cause of my bike, but I just want a little more response and speed in my truck. Not
that I want my truck to be as quick (pretty sure that's impossible unless I spend an
arm and a leg) but I want there to be more power when I need it I guess you could
say.

Better drivablity and the seat of your pants dyno agrees too.....

Sounds good. I'm very excited about the programmer and the new tunes.

This got me a bit concerned, are there potential reliability issues involved in changing tunes or something?

Yes and no. I have never had a problem, and if they do happen they are few and far between. Since when you change a tune you are essentially rewriting the computer, there can be data transfer issues, and if your battery doesn't have enough power it can also cause some major problems. I know Jack always hooks his truck up to a charger whenever he changes tunes just to make sure there is always enough power getting to the Gryphon and the ECM.
So yes, do not change a tune when you are far from home or a towing company (yes a mistake can make the truck not run), but problems like this won't happen most of the time. Like I said, I have had 2 trucks with multiple tune changes on each and I have never seen anything go wrong, and I wasn't hooked up to a battery tender or charger either. :)

How long does it take to change a tune?! Because I will be receiving my
programmer maybe in a week or week in a half, and have to use the st-
ock 87 tow until I receive my custom tunes. Which sparks up new que-
stions from me. What are is the correct process when changing from one
tune to the other? Do you have to:
-Put your truck back into the factory settings?
-Unplug your battery?
-Choose your tune.
-Then follow on screen demands?

As far as those problems, how often have they occurred? When they do
occur are they catastrophic to the PCM of the truck? When they do get
fixed is there a lasting problem or is it easily resolved. Describe what those
problems consist of. Thanks a lot for the replies.

See above in Blue :D

Ticopowell has given you the straight scoop here, except for one TINY detail.

My truck, since it's a bit of a "Garage Queen" like 88Racing's, sits with a "Battery Tender" plugged in at all times when I'm home. I've posted in many places about the "parasitic" draw on the battery from all the OEM electronics and the things I've added to it. If it is not driven for 3 weeks, the battery would be dead. The Battery Tender, which is not a "boil your battery charger", keeps the battery at a full charge state.

I do not disconnect the Battery Tender when I change the tune. If you DO connect a charger, make sure it's one with a 2 Amp setting. I don't know that a higher charge rate would hurt anything, but it might (and I would not risk it).

Here's a link to a post I made in another forum that will answer your concerns. Please read it carefully: http://www.f150online.com/forums/chi...unes-read.html

- Jack

Thanks Tico, wasn't trying to overreact just wanted to clear up stuff. Because as far
as what everyone was saying it sounded pretty serious.

I see, I have that for my motorcycle the battery tender. Do you think that my after-
market sound system would draw enough from the battery for it to be a problem? I
have a 720 watt kenwood bridged to a rockford 300 rms shallow mount sub, I have
a farad capacitor also. I also have infinity component references on my front door
and kenwood coaxials in the small doors in the back; all powered by a sony head unit.
I think I have a stock battery also, would this setup cause me problems as far as bat-
tery draw? And if I wanted to add another mono amp to power my sub and have my
current one power my other speakers would this cause enough problem where I'd have
to get a more heavy duty battery?

As always thanks for your replies guys, it is greatly appreciated.

I have 2 amps running maybe 1600 max power and 800 RMS and I haven't had a problem yet. Just make sure that you turn your radio, and really all other accessories, off before you try and change tunes. You will always have battery draw with the truck off, and with the truck in the on position, but without the engine running, you will have quite a bit more even without the stereo system running.
If your truck sits a lot I would get a battery tender like Jack said, that should keep the battery up even with the system (when off it shouldnt draw any extra power than just the radio).
Hope that clears more up, and feel free to keep the questions coming! :D

Cool. With this second amp I think I'll be up to 2000 watts max and maybe 600-650
RMS. My truck doesn't sit too much. I interchange between my bike and the truck,
but I've been using the truck a lot more for the past month and a half due to some
weird weather we've been having here in Vegas. I'll probably get a tender for the
truck as well just in case. So when you tune it is very advisable to just turn every-
thing off on the truck, correct? Wilco. I'm really fidgety and anxious about the gryphon
getting here. I want to see what it can do for my vehicle.

I know you won't be disappointed! :) That is correct, and that sounds like a good plan for the battery.

Holy cow how much power does the Gryphon require to reprogram? You guys all have F-150's? I ask because I'm planning on getting a Gryphon for a 7.3 diesel and wonder if having two batteries would alleviate some of the problems.

Any chance constant reprogramming could cause permanent harm to the ecm? I plan to change back and forth from daily driver to tow tunes quite a bit.

It just needs the voltage, not the amperage really... if the volts drop too low then it doesn't have enough energy to do what it needs to do.
If I were an EE I would be able to explain better, but I think that should be alright. and Yes having a second battery wouldnt hurt at all :D

Tico has again given you correct advice. The EPROM in the ECM needs 18 Volts as a signal to accept a new program (in the gas engines - I suspect the diesels are the same). That voltage is produced in the programmer by converting battery voltage. If the battery voltage is low, the converted voltage will also be low and if it drops below a critical value DURING the programming, you could get a corrupted write. That can disable your truck.

This is why I ALWAYS recommend changing the program at home (where you won't be "stranded", and have access to a PC), with a nice, warm fully charged battery.

Having two batteries really doesn't help you. Yours are wired in parallel, to provide the Amperage needed to turn your starter against the compression of your big engine. If the voltage output in one drops, they both drop.

The EPROM in the ECM is good for many thousands of write cycles. It's a whole lot like a "thumb drive", or a flash card in a camera. Yes, there IS a limit, but you'll probably die of old age before reaching it.

I found that my truck has an OEM "parasitic" draw on the battery of 0.05 Amps when it's sitting. The older monochrome Gryphon has an additional 0.05 Amps draw for it's "keep-alive" memory. I don't know what the newer CS/CTS platforms pull - I actually suspect it's less.

So, a total draw of 0.1 Amps doesn't sound like much, but in 24 hours, it uses 2.4 Amps and in just under 21 days, a single battery is "dead" (over 50 Amps lost and a no-load voltage of around 11.5 Volts or less). Two batteries will last twice as long of course, but the voltage is still dropping every day that the truck sits. Cold weather exaggerates this problem.

If you use your truck most every day and are alert to the signs of a weak battery, you should not have any problems. If the truck sits, like mine does, I strongly recommend a Battery Tender. This will add to the longevity of the battery too.

- Jack

I do what I can :cheesy smile:
And you did some good advice too, I didnt even think about the parallel or series configuration of the batteries in a diesel.
That draw also seems right, my truck is always harder to start after sitting for a week or more... Thanks :D

I guess I'll be good then, my truck has never come across any battery problems. I guess
before I do any programming I'll just drive for a bit.