Reprogramming for Phaser Lockout HELP
 

Hello everyone at PHP!

I am new to this forum and am interested in updating my Edge evolution with your tunes. I have a 2004 f150 with a 5.4 3 valve that has the typical camshaft phaser knock as well as some guides and chain tensioners that I fear are failing. My plan is to replace all of the guides, tensioners, and chains as well as locking the phasers using the Livernois Lockouts. My questions is, can the Gryphon be used to adjust the VCT perimeters? Will a custom tune be required? Is this something that you guys have dealt with before?

I am looking for direction at this point, but I will need to get the ball rolling ASAP! I already have the chains, tensioners, and guides but I am trying to get the information I need so that I can handle it.

I will be looking forward to your reply.

Thanks,

Andy

Boy, you are really just covering up a pretty major issue......OIL PRESSURE!

Before you tear into this thing you should throw an oil pressure gauge on it and see whats happening there. Hot oil pressure (EOT @200*) should be at least 25 psi, but in my opinion - I think 30 psi should be the absolute minimum. If the pressure is low you will just be throwing money away putting these parts into a motor that is on its way out.

If I had one of these trucks I might consider loosing the phasers, but wouldnt dare do it to cover up something more serious.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the reply.

I don't suspect the oil pressure as the problem. I have not put a second gauge on it, but the factory gauge still reads quite high. And has not changed since any of the problems started. These motors have a extremely well documented design flaw in the camshaft timing system. My motor runs great, has never throne a code or CEL, and only has 82,000 miles on it.

Most of the early 3 valve 5.4's have cam phaser knock, it is not a pressure problem but a phaser design problem. The Lockout basically locks the phaser into one position (60 degrees advanced), keeping it from being able to knock back and forth. Basically the motor acts as if it did not have a phaser at all.

This is not the first time a phaser has been locked out. I just need info about the programing side of it so I can get whatever I need to get this job done.

Thanks Again.

Andy

Are you sure that the factory oil pressure 'gauge' isn't a switch and not a true analog gauge?

Positive.

I really urge you to put an actual gauge on it. A few minutes of diagnostic can save you a bunch of time and money down the road.

The reason its "knocking" is because there is insufficient oil pressure to hold it into a full advance position. It could be a restriction (sludge) in the VCT solenoid body gasket or screen, it could be a solenoid issue....but if your chains are making noise too - it's likely this is not your issue because the tensioner gets the oil before it even hits the VCT solenoid.

I will check the oil pressure before I tear into the chain system, just to make sure.

My question is about tuning. Has anyone used the Gryphon to control the VCT? Does any one have experience with locking out a phaser on a 3 valve and retuning it? What were the results?

Thanks again,

Andy

Spending <$400 to disable a system that Ford spent MILLIONS to develop?

Sounds like a great idea to me! :whistle1:

Think about the millions they spent to engineer a completely new line of engines and eliminate the 3 valve after only 6 years of production.

I thought this was a tuning site! If we are scared to spend money in an effort to make our vehicles better, then what is this site all about? Ford spent millions on perfecting the stock tunes that all of us are trying to make better. Right?

Again, my question is about tuning. Can the Gryphon be used to control VTC programming? Have any of you done this or even heard of anyone doing this. The internet is covered with mustang owners who are doing this in order to install larger camshafts, I just have not found many F150 owners who have posted their results. And I have found no examples of anyone using a Gryphon or Edge to do it.

Please help, I need info and direction from someone who does programming.

Thank you so much!

Andy

We can go on all day with this subject. I am not arguing the fact that the VCT AND engine have some design flaws, but dont think you need to be covering up a much larger and potentially more serious problem via tuning. Be sure your engine is mechanically sound before moving forward....its not that complicated.

I wish I could be more help with this, but I dont know what Bill is willing to do. There have been numerous occasions I wish I could have just disabled those things, but I fixed the root problem instead....LOL

Dave,
I don't think the 2004 has a real (meaning analog) oil pressure gauge.

Oil (Idiot) Gauge - F150online Forums

When Cody gets sarcastic there is a good chance he is right but unable to prove it, which only requires you doing a pressure test. Shotgun posted a great link that needs to be read. It is a short, one paragraph post that only takes about 30 seconds to read.

Nobody is giving you the answer because when people order tuning to cover up mechanical problems the finger always gets pointed at the tuner expecting them to pay for repairs. The excuse is always "tuning caused the part to fail," it could never be a deteriorating part that got pushed beyond its limits. I've seen it posted a few times here and I'm sure PHP has had countless emails that none of us will ever see. Tuning does not work as a bandaid for mechanical illnesses. Just humor everyone and get the pressure checked.

Dude, you're pretty intuitive about my personality even though we've never met. :howdy:

Being a Chevy tech up until early 2010, I was only familiar with the variable cam timing of a couple 3.1L engines and the ever-popular Trailblazer (affectionately called a "Failblazer" by those of us in the 'biz) systems that were hit-and-miss.

I realize that Ford systems work in a similar fashion, but I haven't had the pleasure of being around (and especially not working on) any of Ford's newer vehicles. Variable cam timing has it's place, and Ford made sure to design their engines' flow characteristics around all of the variables now present with a camshaft that can alter it's timing relationship to piston position. By fixing the cam timing (and I know that Trailblazers use the variable exhaust cam timing to negate the need for EGR), emissions will increase in certain parts of the operating range and it is very possible that a loss in performance will be experienced in certain load/RPM ranges.

Does anyone remember a story a while back about the changes made to the cam timing that Bill was doing for noisy (drone) intake systems and how it really affected the output of the engine?

To the OP:

Yes, it's entirely possible to control variable cam timing through the tuning we do through the Evolution/Gryphon platforms. I'm not versed in it though so the only thing I offer you do is hope that Bill responds to this thread or email him directly for a straight answer on what he's willing to do remotely.

Guess I did not understand your first post.

Yes, the factory gauge is a switch and not an actual "gauge".

It is well documented that the Ford phasers (especially the early ones) had major design defects. It is also well documented that the 5.4 3 valve oil system is marginally adequate to keep up with the requirements of the phasers. I am not attempting to "cover up" a problem with MY truck, but correct a design problem in the way this engine was engineered.

I don't expect everyone to be familiar with this specific issue that Ford had with one of their worst designed gas engines. The fact is, I am not breaking new ground in planning on locking out my cam phasers, but it seems that I am breaking new ground when trying to use a Gryphon to program it.

Fortunately for all of us, Bill at PHP knows his stuff. I was able to get him on the phone today and it looks like we are going to be able to work out this problem. He was familiar with the F150 3 valve phaser problems that many people (again not just me) have been dealing with. Perhaps, my experience will give other F150 owners options when trying to fix what was simply a bad design.

Andy