does Gryphon allow for tranny to keep learning?

[ballisticmike]

i dont know much about this, but i've always heard the F150 transmission "learns" your driving style over tyme and makes adjustments as it sees fit. Does the gryphon with custom tunes still allow for this or disallow? i ask because it seems this learning business is un-needed i.e. from the dealer lot the tranny would shift just fine but get worse from there on over time. I had brought my truck in to get reflashed after a couple months and it was fine again. Since then i have the gryphon with custom tunes and of course its even better, but hence my question.. will it stay this way or will this truck try and learn still. Wish it wouldnt.. its a bad student

[Jackpine]

Mike, that's a great question and I hope Bill answers it. My own opinion is no, there is no "learning" with a custom tune. I base this on two reasons:

1. My shift feel seems just as good now as when I first programmed the truck about 2 years ago.

2. If there WAS a "relearn" mechanism, it would kind of defeat the purpose of custom tunes.

However, I have no real facts to base this opinion on. So, it will be nice to hear from "The Man"!

- Jack

[ballisticmike]

thx for the response. It begs the question... why does the factory include the so-called learning aspect at all? I dont know anyone who likes it, or can say "yes it improved my ride over time thru its learning curve". Anyone? And what parameters does the brain have... is it simply shift point/rpm for the tranny or is there more to it? I dont like 'drive by wire' at all actually. I miss the old throttle cables. I would take the return spring and adjust the tension to how i liked it... true customization

[88Racing]

From what I understand the pcm's ability to learn can altered by new parameters in the custom tune but now has a new set in which to learn in.
The adaptive learning process needs to be in place for all of our real world situations.
If it was turned off a truck at sea level wouldn't run or operate well in the mountains.
It encompasses a lot of different operations throughout the whole power train. Bill might have a better explination though.

[Jackpine]

Originally Posted by ballisticmike

thx for the response. It begs the question... why does the factory include the so-called learning aspect at all? I dont know anyone who likes it, or can say "yes it improved my ride over time thru its learning curve". Anyone? And what parameters does the brain have... is it simply shift point/rpm for the tranny or is there more to it? I dont like 'drive by wire' at all actually. I miss the old throttle cables. I would take the return spring and adjust the tension to how i liked it... true customization

There IS a reason for drive by wire - it's easier to correct a problem (or a perceived problem) with a software adjustment than it is to fiddle with "hardware", which may include replacing actual parts with a corresponding cost in labor. But the downside is that the software engineer's idea of an ideal setup may not match yours.

And, looking at all the trouble Toyota is having with their throttle problem (which now possibly MAY include electronic control problems as well as mechanical ones) does not bode well for the rest of the industry that has also adopted electronic throttle control. Consider: All we have to have is an accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (PPS) that has somehow electronically failed into the WOT position, and the PCM will command the Throttle Position Actuator into the full open position. This COULD, of course be countered by a Brake Sensor that, if activated, tells the PCM to ignore the PPS and close the throttle, regardless of the pedal position.

Since the PCM DOES monitor the brakes, I think, on an ABS equipped vehicle, this seems a change that could easily be accomplished with a PCM flash (software fix).

Probably, it would have been better all along to simply follow the KISS principle.

- Jack

[Longshot270]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

There IS a reason for drive by wire - it's easier to correct a problem (or a perceived problem) with a software adjustment than it is to fiddle with "hardware", which may include replacing actual parts with a corresponding cost in labor. But the downside is that the software engineer's idea of an ideal setup may not match yours.

And, looking at all the trouble Toyota is having with their throttle problem (which now possibly MAY include electronic control problems as well as mechanical ones) does not bode well for the rest of the industry that has also adopted electronic throttle control. Consider: All we have to have is an accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (PPS) that has somehow electronically failed into the WOT position, and the PCM will command the Throttle Position Actuator into the full open position. This COULD, of course be countered by a Brake Sensor that, if activated, tells the PCM to ignore the PPS and close the throttle, regardless of the pedal position.

Since the PCM DOES monitor the brakes, I think, on an ABS equipped vehicle, this seems a change that could easily be accomplished with a PCM flash (software fix).

Probably, it would have been better all along to simply follow the KISS principle.

- Jack

Funny you bring up the issue of the PPS sensor going out while driving. In Australia a while back I heard of a case where that happened to someone. He had his car on cruise control at 60 or so when something messed up. He drove against his will while the cops tried to figure something out. Luckily someone had the wonderful idea of using the the parking brake to get the vehicle slow enough to stop safely.

I dont really like the electronic stuff either. A friend of mine with an older powerstroke had that sensor go out on him. Caused quite a bit of trouble for him.

[88Racing]

Harley went with this also in 2008 on the touring class.
The first year it caused a bit of problems but it wasn't sticking.
The problem was the sluggish response that was programmed in.
Riders were killing the bikes at take off from a stop.
Harley did resovle the issue by issuing an updated program for the pcm.
Thank goodness no one got hurt.
More embarissing than anything else.

[Dfishrmn]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Mike, that's a great question and I hope Bill answers it. My own opinion is no, there is no "learning" with a custom tune. I base this on two reasons:

1. My shift feel seems just as good now as when I first programmed the truck about 2 years ago.

2. If there WAS a "relearn" mechanism, it would kind of defeat the purpose of custom tunes.

However, I have no real facts to base this opinion on. So, it will be nice to hear from "The Man"!

- Jack

Bill did post a reply to a similiar question in the past but am not sure where it is posted. He referenced the tranny will calibrate according to driving style. If you drive more conservatively it will "learn" and soften the shifts. If you drive hard it will firm them up. I believe this applied to custom tunes also, but will wait from Bill to confirm.

[bambo2888]

i really hope that they dont 'learn' style, just accounts for ambient conditions.


since im still waiting for the custom tunes, all i can speak for are the canned tunes. i love the way they feel initially, but after a while, the effect just kind of dies off. maybe its mental, but when i reprogram again, my truck comes alive again.

i dunno, but i really hope the custom tunes dont learn driving styles in the same way the factory pcm does.

[OUMX117]

Originally Posted by longshot270

Funny you bring up the issue of the PPS sensor going out while driving. In Australia a while back I heard of a case where that happened to someone. He had his car on cruise control at 60 or so when something messed up. He drove against his will while the cops tried to figure something out. Luckily someone had the wonderful idea of using the the parking brake to get the vehicle slow enough to stop safely.

I dont really like the electronic stuff either. A friend of mine with an older powerstroke had that sensor go out on him. Caused quite a bit of trouble for him.

Haha these stories on the news where people don't know what to do when the car is putting the gas at WOT drive me crazy. I wonder how NONE of these people thought "Hey maybe if I turn the key off the engine won't be running anymore". Or maybe put the car in neutral? Apply brakes? Any of the above actions can prevent a catastrophe. LOL