4.6 to 5.4 swap? BILL....HELP!!!

[RobbyMartin]

I just read an article and "Power Improved Heads" are what gave these engines the extra HP and TQ starting in '99. I am glad I turned down the '97 engine and opted for a later model.



http://www.mustangandfords.com/techa...ord_modular_v8

[Power Hungry]

As you've discovered, there are minor differences in the engines from a performance standpoint and this is where some of the power gains come from as the years progressed. Tuning plays a small part in this as well, but not nearly as much as you'd think. This is why we are still able to achieve reasonable power gains over successive years.

You definitely are better off with the late model engine, even with the little bit of difficulty you're having at this point.

[RobbyMartin]

I won't be satisfied until the newer engine is in and running. It should have the original 4.6 PCM and harness installed but you never know with this guy. Should I wait to purchase the Gryphon after I know what PCM is installed or can I go ahead and purchase it now? It'll be a 5.4 engine with a 4.6 PCM.

How long will it take to get the tuner if you received payment today? At least I'll have that part taken care of. Then after I get that, it'll be 4-6 weeks before the custom 5.4 performance tune will be ready?

[Power Hungry]

Robby,

You can order the tuner now and I can send one tomorrow. UPS doesn't pick up this Thursday (or next, for that matter) so if not tomorrow then it'll be Monday. I will need to know at some point which PCM you're running, but that's not important at this time and doesn't affect which programmer we send.

Because your situation is unique, we'd make special considerations for your tunes. It's similar to having a disabled vehicle in your case.

Take care.

[RobbyMartin]

Originally Posted by CageFighter_Dan

With a tuner you should be able turn off/ or bypass the pats system, once that is done the fuel situation should be fine, as well check the 30 amp mega fuse in the engine bay on the drivers side, by the cruise control module, I forget the number of its position but it controls power to the pcm as well

I purchased the Gryphon and it arrived a few days ago but I haven't had the chance to open the package yet because I went behind my wife's back and bought it without her knowledge and she has been around me seemingly every waking moment since.

I have a question.....I still have yet to get my truck back from this mechanic (profanities withheld) because he just can't seem to get the truck started. He says it'll start if he sprays fuel in the intake but it stalls once the fuel has been burned. I think he's still having a PATS issue but I'm no Ford expert. Does the Gryphon have an option to override the PATS or is that part of a custom tune? I want to override the PATS.

This guy went from installing a '97 5.4 to an '01 5.4 and then after talking the service techs at the Ford dealership, he decided to install an '03 5.4 (which only has 62k miles so I'm happy about that).

[CageFighter_Dan]

glad to hear he finally went with a 03 , thats exactly what i am running in mine, it is a great engine, even with out it tuned to the pcm, i can't wait to see how it runs with the cutom tunes, i still believe the mechanic you got to do this swap got in way over his abilities if he hasn't been able to get it running right, even with a newer one , with this engine did he end up using the original pcm and harness with it as well or did he try to jimmy rig a different one, from the sounds of it , and this is only a guess the pcm isn't allowing the fuel pump to begin its function hense why it will start with fuel in the tb, but once it burns off it quits, due to it not recieving any more from the tank. There is some sort of communication issue happening between the engine and the pcm, and if the pats system in your truck is still functioning it would cause something like this, but it would also kill the starter so it wouldn't even crank over , thats the part that has me baffled. again it is hard to determine a problem just through a forum as well with out physically being there to eleminate problems on a check list. Good luck though thanks for the update

[RobbyMartin]

He took the engine, harness and pcm from the same vehicle. He said he even drove the truck it came from before they pulled it out for him to install it in mine. He said he heard from Ford that he had to get the pcm, engine and harness from the same vehicle and was also told that they wouldn't re-flash the original 4.6 computer to be a 5.4 due to lawsuits.

If this isn't a PATS issue then who knows what it could be. He said the fuel pump isn't coming on. I've heard/read different opinions on how the PATS works. Can the Gryphon override the PATS?

[Jackpine]

Originally Posted by RobbyMartin

He took the engine, harness and pcm from the same vehicle. He said he even drove the truck it came from before they pulled it out for him to install it in mine. He said he heard from Ford that he had to get the pcm, engine and harness from the same vehicle and was also told that they wouldn't re-flash the original 4.6 computer to be a 5.4 due to lawsuits.

If this isn't a PATS issue then who knows what it could be. He said the fuel pump isn't coming on. I've heard/read different opinions on how the PATS works. Can the Gryphon override the PATS?

I don't know how the PATS works either, but I wouldn't want to override it.

There is a component though, in the instrument cluster that "senses" the PATS key and it is an integral part of the instrument cluster. Just off the top of my head, I think the mechanic needs to get the instrument cluster from the vehicle he got the engine from and he needs to replace yours with it. This "receiver" cannot be obtained separately as I understand it. I hope the newer instrument cluster will fit!

This issue has been discussed several times in another forum when the subject of swapping instrument clusters has been brought up.

- Jack

[CageFighter_Dan]

the main issue here though as well wil be conflict with transmission if it is not the same in your original truck as it is in the donor truck ie. w4r70 which is in almost all 4.6l that i have seen , and w4r100 in all the 5.4l if your truck has a different tranny it is not a simple tune issue either at this point.as for ford not willing to reflash the pcm to a 5.4 tune, that is exactly why i went with the gryphon and bills custom tunes, with this it has the ability to rewrite/flash your existing pcm for the 5.4 flash and running program just like it was already a pcm from a 5.4l truck. the benifit of doing it this way is , you will still have your exisitng hook ups and factory set up for your transmission and no issues with it down the road, as well as your stock pcm pats settings programmed for your key already. I suspect that that is another issue that he is still using the original key with the pats transponder in it from the original truck but attempting to start the engine with the new pcm which has not been scanned and programmed for this key, the other issue i mentioned before which is quite easy to over look, "i did and put a new fuel pump in the truck because of it" was a blown 30amp mega fuse ini the engine compartment that controls over all power up to the pcm , and with it working on my vehicle gave me the exact same symptoms of a pooched fuel pump assembly, i changed the pump then after realized the fuse.Like i was mentioning at the beginning , use your stock pcm and harness and use the gryphon for a stock pcm flash to 5.4 settings from the 4.6 ones and it will save you alot of grief down the road, this all that you are experiencing now, is that same said grief that i was trying to prewarn you about before the project took off, ford as well told me when i was in the planning and searching stage of my project that i would also have to change my pcm and harness to match pcm, after more research and not just taking their word for it, i found out from others that had done the actual swap successfully that i could use my stock and was better off to do so to prevent potential conflict between pcm's and sensors from the swap. That it is easier for a tuner to reflash/program a stock pcm then it is to track down all the other stuff from the donor vehicle to make it work with the swap set up. With this there would be no need to change clusters/ tranny/ key transponders, coding for said key, and other compatibilty issues. But i have mentioned this at numerous accations, and at the beginning stage of your swap. Don't really know what more to say other then smack your mechanic upside the head and say LISTEN TO WHAT I WANT , not what you think needs to happen or what ford themselves tell you . Ford does not support doing the swap since they will not touch any aspect of it due to liabilities of engine and component reliability warranty. This is why no one sends their trucks to ford in order to do a swap like these. I have found from personal experience that ford was very reluctant to give any advise or service work in any way with my truck once i mentioned the project i was undertaking. But i will leave this responce as this with a quote i learned from my grandfather and find myself leaning against quite often as i get older " Learn from other peoples mistakes, cause you won't live long enough to make them all yourself"

[RobbyMartin]

Bill,
I ordered the Gryphon and I received it weeks ago but I didn't have the truck in my possession until tonight when I had it towed from the mechanic who was working on it. Because of that, I haven't had the opportunity to install it yet. Plus, it's still not running. Well, technically it runs, but it wont start with the key. It starts only with a remote starter connected to the solenoid. With the key everything seems to work normal except it won't fire up. It'll crank but wont fire. The mechanic swears its the PATS but who really whos.

You have been waiting for me to get back to you when I was certain as to which PCM the mechanic actually used. This is the one:
HEX: GKW3 and part #: 2L3A-12A650-GD

I would like to disable the PATS with the custom tune that I ordered to see if it cures this issue. I have been without this truck for 2 months so I can't wait to get it running.

Thanks