does Gryphon allow for tranny to keep learning?

[Jackpine]

Originally Posted by OUMX117

Haha these stories on the news where people don't know what to do when the car is putting the gas at WOT drive me crazy. I wonder how NONE of these people thought "Hey maybe if I turn the key off the engine won't be running anymore". Or maybe put the car in neutral? Apply brakes? Any of the above actions can prevent a catastrophe. LOL

It's easy to smile at this unless it happens to you (and, OUMX, I'm not taking potshots at you, I'm just talking from experience).

I used to own a 70's era T-Bird and I remember one day having the accelerator pedal stick down (in town). My fist reaction was to step on the brake. This had a slowing effect but not as much as you'd think, because the engine was at several thousand rpms and it just seemed to add more power as the car slowed a bit. Next, I turned off the ignition - this helped too, but not as much as you'd want because at that rpm and with the pedal down, the engine "dieseled" and just kept running. I finally hooked my toe under the pedal and lifted it, which allowed me to bring the car to a safe stop. My heart rate was pretty high at this point. It didn't occur to me to shift into neutral.

In my case, a floor mat had caught the pedal and caused it to stay down. I've been VERY careful about floor mats ever since that incident.

But, to modern vehicles: The brake MAY stop or slow the acceleration, but the vehicle is still going to be hard to manage. My guess is, it won't stop the vehicle by itself. Turning the ignition OFF may work now, since the PCM controls fuel delivery and it should shutdown fuel to the engine so that it won't diesel like mine did. However, you DO risk engaging the ignition interlock that might lock the steering wheel in some models. I haven't checked Janet's Toyota to see if the wheel would become locked when in a forward gear with the ignition off, and I need to do that. Locking the steering could be a disaster.

People will warn about losing power steering and power brakes with the ignition off, but that's not really a big deal.You just have to push harder on the pedal and perhaps use more force on the wheel, if that's all you lose.

Finally, shifting into neutral: I think this is the second thing you should try right after stepping on the brake (which is naturally the first thing you do). You'll certainly cause the engine to rev to its limit by doing this, but the rev limiter probably won't allow the engine to self-destruct. And besides even if it did, if you don't die like the policeman's family did, it's worth it. Once you get the vehicle under control, you can turn the ignition off.

The important thing is to "have a plan", because I guarantee you will not be thinking very clearly if this happens to you.

- Jack

[OUMX117]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

It's easy to smile at this unless it happens to you (and, OUMX, I'm not taking potshots at you, I'm just talking from experience).

I used to own a 70's era T-Bird and I remember one day having the accelerator pedal stick down (in town). My fist reaction was to step on the brake. This had a slowing effect but not as much as you'd think, because the engine was at several thousand rpms and it just seemed to add more power as the car slowed a bit. Next, I turned off the ignition - this helped too, but not as much as you'd want because at that rpm and with the pedal down, the engine "dieseled" and just kept running. I finally hooked my toe under the pedal and lifted it, which allowed me to bring the car to a safe stop. My heart rate was pretty high at this point. It didn't occur to me to shift into neutral.

In my case, a floor mat had caught the pedal and caused it to stay down. I've been VERY careful about floor mats ever since that incident.

But, to modern vehicles: The brake MAY stop or slow the acceleration, but the vehicle is still going to be hard to manage. My guess is, it won't stop the vehicle by itself. Turning the ignition OFF may work now, since the PCM controls fuel delivery and it should shutdown fuel to the engine so that it won't diesel like mine did. However, you DO risk engaging the ignition interlock that might lock the steering wheel in some models. I haven't checked Janet's Toyota to see if the wheel would become locked when in a forward gear with the ignition off, and I need to do that. Locking the steering could be a disaster.

People will warn about losing power steering and power brakes with the ignition off, but that's not really a big deal.You just have to push harder on the pedal and perhaps use more force on the wheel, if that's all you lose.

Finally, shifting into neutral: I think this is the second thing you should try right after stepping on the brake (which is naturally the first thing you do). You'll certainly cause the engine to rev to its limit by doing this, but the rev limiter probably won't allow the engine to self-destruct. And besides even if it did, if you don't die like the policeman's family did, it's worth it. Once you get the vehicle under control, you can turn the ignition off.

The important thing is to "have a plan", because I guarantee you will not be thinking very clearly if this happens to you.

- Jack

No I understand what you are saying completely, so no worries I bet it would be a bit hard to think at first as well. I just heard a phone call on the radio the other day where they played the 911 call that came in from some people that were in either a prius or a corolla and it was going like 100mph and they couldn't stop it. I know it takes a long time to get one of those cars to 100mph so I think the real problem is that drivers nowadays don't fully understand what the different controls on their vehicles are capable of doing. Because if you had the 20-25 seconds that it would take to get that car up to that speed (being optimistic of the corolla's performance capabilities, haha) a properly trained driver should be able to figure out a way to cut the power. Not saying it should be a first instinct to everyone, but after you figured out waht was happening I think most people should be able to fix this problem. Another problem with today's drivers is that they are scared of their vehicles and have no idea how to control them in a potentially dangerous situation. Take for example what happened to me last summer (not saying I am the best driver by any means but I can handle my vehicles to their full potential, haha) I was driving down the highway at about 70-72mph and the trailer in front of me hit a bump and launched a wheelbarrow off and directly at me. I was in the left lane and there was a car to my right. i had to rip the wheel to the left and put it into the grassy median at about 65mph I was able to maintain control of the truck by staying on the throttle and keeping the truck moving forward and steering it back onto the road. After that I had to stop and check my pants, hahaha. But there was no damage to my truck or the people that were in it. I think if drivers were forced to learn how to control their vehicles in more extreme situations there would ba alot fewer wrecks. There's my $.02 about why I think there are so many wrecks today. That was a heck of a tangent, haha.

[Longshot270]

Hey Jack, what would happen IF you killed the engine with the truck in gear since we have automatic transmissions. I've heard that bad stuff can happen even in neutral when the axle end is moving and the engine isn't. Cant get specific answers besides "uhh it'll blow up...duh!" (something tells me this might be a case of lemming-gitis ) and I'm sure that by now you guys have figured out that unanswered questions bug me.

I've got some stories like that. First I got caught in the left lane with a car on my right and a truck pulling a trailer hanging over the yellow stripes. To make it worse I was having to take my mom somewhere. I was able to squeeze my little truck between only to wish the trailer had clipped off my head when my mom realized what happened.
Another involves a group of lance armstrong wannabies and an EXTREMELY angry dump truck driver heading my way in a 1.5 lane country road. I dont think I need to get into the specifics other than I got within 6 inches of becoming a speed bump and that I gave some gravel to those bicylists to remember me by.

[Jackpine]

Funny stories, Longshot. I have a "thing" about bicyclists here in Tucson who like to pedal up the Mt Lemmon highway (about 22 miles and a climb of around 6,000 feet from the base of the range). It's a 2-lane road, and most of it has a bike lane now, but some of our "fitness freaks" think it's cool to ride about four abreast in the uphill lane. Those guys I have no patience at all for.

In answer to your question though about turning off the engine with the back end rotating, I simply don't know. I honestly can't see how a disaster is going to happen, simply because there's a torque converter. But, there could easily be transmission damage, possibly like you'd get from towing an auto trans with all four feet on the ground and the driveline connected.

My feeling is though, the biggest need is to stop the vehicle. To hell with what happens to it in the process. And, to go back to the last post by OUMX117, my understanding is the driver in that 911 call was a veteran police officer. If anyone should have known how to control the vehicle, it should have been him. And, I think the acceleration may have been a lot more rapid than any of us can imagine.

Until you've been in a "panic" situation, you really can't imagine what it's like. I too went off the road once, when I was young, it was raining and the road was wet and I was driving too fast for a curve. Somehow, I managed to steer between an electrical pole and the steel cable that supported it. I started shaking AFTER I managed to get the car back on the road. I never told my parents about this - it was their car!

- Jack

[Longshot270]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Funny stories, Longshot. I have a "thing" about bicyclists here in Tucson who like to pedal up the Mt Lemmon highway (about 22 miles and a climb of around 6,000 feet from the base of the range). It's a 2-lane road, and most of it has a bike lane now, but some of our "fitness freaks" think it's cool to ride about four abreast in the uphill lane. Those guys I have no patience at all for.

Ha, over here you have to be patient because they are all so rich they will sue you for looking at them wrong...the laws are skewed to be on their side unfortunately. The ironic thing about that day was that the dump truck was hauling road base for their bicycle lane. The only thing you can do is like what 95_tatsch does and that is to give them a black powder coat ever so often...just make sure the smoke is thick enough so that they cant get your plate or ID your vehicle.

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

In answer to your question though about turning off the engine with the back end rotating, I simply don't know. I honestly can't see how a disaster is going to happen, simply because there's a torque converter. But, there could easily be transmission damage, possibly like you'd get from towing an auto trans with all four feet on the ground and the driveline connected.

I havent figured out why they say that either. Are they afraid of someone leaving it in gear or is neutral not really neutral for autos?

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

My feeling is though, the biggest need is to stop the vehicle. To hell with what happens to it in the process.

Definitely, the checkbook in the red is better than being dead.

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Until you've been in a "panic" situation, you really can't imagine what it's like. I too went off the road once, when I was young, it was raining and the road was wet and I was driving too fast for a curve. Somehow, I managed to steer between an electrical pole and the steel cable that supported it. I started shaking AFTER I managed to get the car back on the road. I never told my parents about this - it was their car!

Something tells me that everyone on here has done something like that.

[88Racing]

Turning the truck off and going into nuetral should not hurt the tranny at all if it's a short distance.
On 4x4's turning the motor off will cause loss of vacuum and engauge the front axels into hubs.

[OUMX117]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Funny stories, Longshot. I have a "thing" about bicyclists here in Tucson who like to pedal up the Mt Lemmon highway (about 22 miles and a climb of around 6,000 feet from the base of the range). It's a 2-lane road, and most of it has a bike lane now, but some of our "fitness freaks" think it's cool to ride about four abreast in the uphill lane. Those guys I have no patience at all for.

In answer to your question though about turning off the engine with the back end rotating, I simply don't know. I honestly can't see how a disaster is going to happen, simply because there's a torque converter. But, there could easily be transmission damage, possibly like you'd get from towing an auto trans with all four feet on the ground and the driveline connected.

My feeling is though, the biggest need is to stop the vehicle. To hell with what happens to it in the process. And, to go back to the last post by OUMX117, my understanding is the driver in that 911 call was a veteran police officer. If anyone should have known how to control the vehicle, it should have been him. And, I think the acceleration may have been a lot more rapid than any of us can imagine.

Until you've been in a "panic" situation, you really can't imagine what it's like. I too went off the road once, when I was young, it was raining and the road was wet and I was driving too fast for a curve. Somehow, I managed to steer between an electrical pole and the steel cable that supported it. I started shaking AFTER I managed to get the car back on the road. I never told my parents about this - it was their car!

- Jack

Ah I didn't know it was a police officer. Still though I believe that there is a large percentage of people in this country that have no idea how to control their vehicle in a non-typical situation. And trust me I've had my fair share of close calls in vehicles as well countless thousands of times racing MX. Talk about having little to no time to react, MX makes driving a car look like childs play. Trying to correct on the face of a jump for a 6" rut that wasn't there the laps before at about 45mph before you fly about 100ft to the landing ramp. Not saying that I'd be able to get myself out of every situation that I am put in, but it sure helps to have experience in those areas of pushing the limits. Not trying to be argumentative at all. I Just like discussing theories

I think if all 16y/o drivers were required to take a course involving how to control a vehicle the is in a slide/out of control I think it would be beneficial to all of us.

[Longshot270]

Originally Posted by OUMX117

Not trying to be argumentative at all. I Just like discussing theories

I think if all 16y/o drivers were required to take a course involving how to control a vehicle the is in a slide/out of control I think it would be beneficial to all of us.

I agree with that. Not only should they have to be able to pull out of it but they need to know how to start it. If you know how easy it is to cause a loss in traction you'll be more likely to not do it...when its important not to.
You guys wouldn't believe how long it took me to get used to Bill's tunes on wet rainy streets.
I remember losing traction in my truck turning into a high school one morning. I felt it start sliding and I started to correct but it was really slick and the tires wouldn't grip no matter what. The back end got past the point of no return so I whipped it around and parked it 180˚ between two DO NOT PARK signs. I laugh at the irony now but that day I was cussing at myself for losing traction...Even though there were about a dozen people with their jaws on the ground in amazement. I think someone tried to go back and recreate it and they only succeeded in having to replace a sign.
...That would be one of the tests that I would actually relatively well in. In my family if you break the tires loose everyone makes fun of you, another reason I got limited slip.

Of all the things these transmissions can learn they can't figure out how to pull out of a skid.