4R100 Tranny Upgrade...Need a Program Change?

[ChrisCNC]

I can only go on common sense, which seems to be dwindling as I get older (according to my better half...(c: ), I'd like to rely more on your experience and wisdom than my own.

If I were to guess it would be a combination of both but possibly heavier towards (B), and yes, I'm only interested in the tow tune.

Is Throttle position the only parameter you have to work with? As I recall, I would press the throttle down to accelerate out of a corner and maintain some reasonable uphill speed (35 - 45 mph). Coming out of the corner I'm not doing a 'hard' accel by any stretch and I'm not trying to get up to some fantastic speed either because I've got more corners/potholes coming up. Going off of memory, I can't really recall how much I was varying the throttle postion on that pull. With a constant pull (maybe 7%+ ??), no corners, and constant speed over 35 mph and even up around 50 mph it will not go into TCL.

I can say that with the current tune I tried accelerating pretty hard and backing off to try to initiate TCL, I also tried going faster that I really wanted to around some corners (45 mph?) to try to initiate TCL while sometimes intentionally mashing and sometimes intentionally easing off the throttle with no avail. On that particular section (and similar sections while testing) I could go 40 mph on a straight-ish section of road with constant Throttle position and grade and TCL would never initiate.

I don't know what other parameters there are to look at. Really if Torque was available that would be a good one, using a countdown timer may be useful, like if at 35 mph AND 5 seconds has elapsed (i.e. no acceleration other than the torque of going uphill) then engage... I simply don't know what access you have to other parameters.

Tony (Transmission Solutions, he was manning the scanner as I was driving) indicated that he would be happy to discuss his findings with you if that would help. Remember, we are PDT, 541-484-0633.

Let me know what you'd like me to do,

Sincerely,

[cleatus12r]

There's not much need to talk to your transmission tech since it's tuning related and not due to the transmission build.

Torque converter clutch apply is dictated by accelerator pedal position and road speed. With the 99-03 trucks, there is a bit of "adaptive" finagling that the PCM does (unlike the 95-97 trucks that do exactly what we want them to do right when told to do so).

In your particular 80T program, the way the torque converter apply is commanded in the tuning, the lowest speed we should expect apply would be about 35-36 MPH. At an accelerator pedal position voltage of 1.23, the speed begins to increase sharply and at 1.96 volts the torque converter apply speed becomes about 42 MPH. At 2.0 volts, the speed at which the command is initiated becomes lower (about 35 MPH again) while the speed increases gradually to 39 MPH at 2.8 volts and remains 39 MPH until the APP voltage is maxed out.

Do you see any of the voltages you gave me line up with any that I gave you? It just so happens that the ranges you gave lie right about in line with where the vehicle speed increases before torque converter clutch apply.

My money says that flat-lining the TCC apply command at 36 MPH and then setting a time delay for 4-5 seconds in addition to lowering the TCC release speed to 31 MPH across the board would work out pretty well for you.

However, while typing this out, I'm not certain about this because I don't deal with TNAA7S3 unless someone happens to have it while using a programmer. With the Phoenix chips, we'd use a modified hybrid VDH2/PMT1 strategy that allows TCC apply whenever it's commanded and a lot of the 02-03 trucks have really weird operational characteristics that don't allow torque converter clutch engagement under certain operating conditions (for whatever reason....stupid engineers I guess). However, with a programmer, we can't put that particular VDH2 program on a VDH5 computer; it just won't work.

I can try a couple tricks in the tune and have Bill put it on Fusion for you. However, I'm not certain that I can make the PCM do what I want.....I know how to do it (my personal 2000 is that way) but if yours will is a completely different story.

[ChrisCNC]

The flat-lining strategy sounds great, it would be real disappointing if we weren't able to get there from here because of 'stupid Engineers'.

I hope there's something that works well and not just a pseudo-effective patch because your hands are tied. You having a good fix available, and me not being able to use it is maddening. I assume I'm paying for this customization over what was delivered originally? If you weren't expecting this and it will make a difference in your decision in what gets done lets talk about the cost. I'm all for making it right if possible as long as it doesn't break the bank.

The throttle positions you gave me do seem to line up to the best of my recollection, but Tony wasn't calling out everything while I was driving either so I have a pretty limited picture. There's a small chance he saved the data but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm sure since he was watching the scanner, he'd have a better idea of where things were at than I. This information is what I had in mind you and he talking about.

Sincerely,

[cleatus12r]

Originally Posted by ChrisCNC

The flat-lining strategy sounds great, it would be real disappointing if we weren't able to get there from here because of 'stupid Engineers'.

I hope there's something that works well and not just a pseudo-effective patch because your hands are tied. You having a good fix available, and me not being able to use it is maddening. I assume I'm paying for this customization over what was delivered originally? If you weren't expecting this and it will make a difference in your decision in what gets done lets talk about the cost. I'm all for making it right if possible as long as it doesn't break the bank.

The throttle positions you gave me do seem to line up to the best of my recollection, but Tony wasn't calling out everything while I was driving either so I have a pretty limited picture. There's a small chance he saved the data but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm sure since he was watching the scanner, he'd have a better idea of where things were at than I. This information is what I had in mind you and he talking about.

Sincerely,

We'll do it. It's one tune and it's not anything major (basically just a few keystrokes in the tuning software). The wait will come from the fact that it's a programmer and it has to be done using Fusion.

[ChrisCNC]

Thank you Cleatus, I appreciate you and all that PHP does.

Sincerely,

[ChrisCNC]

If you could give me a swag on the timeline for this change, when you have a chance, it would be very much appreciated. Let me know if you need anything from me.

Thank you,

[ChrisCNC]

Hey Cleatus,

Just wondering if you could give me a guess on PHP's timeline when I could see this change. I haven't heard anything yet from PHP and it's been a month since this discussion.

Thank you!

[ChrisCNC]

Hey Cleatus!

Hope all is going well for you. Spoke to the office and apparently Bill hasn't received the new program to put onto fusion. I was wondering if you could give me a swag as to when that will be put into the queue? It's been 77 days since we started our discussions and 67 days since it was indicated that I should have a change made.

Thank you!

[cleatus12r]

Since I don't frequent forums - even this one - (since forums in general really irritate me), I forgot all about it. My bad.

I'll do it tonight and let Bill know that it's done. However, you'll have to "blank out" your unit by doing the unthinkable "update"...and you'll be without your tuning for a while. Bill can't put the programming on Fusion until that's done.