4.6 to 5.4 swap? BILL....HELP!!!

[Power Hungry]

Going from a 2V to a 3V is going to be a nightmare. Completely different harness/engine controls. You are going to have a wiring mess for sure. I'd stick with a 2V 5.4L just because it's basically a bolt in with some minor ECM changes. That is unless you're just itching for a good, level 4 difficulty project.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but because the engine controls on the 3V are so integrated into the rest of the vehicle, you're likely to find that even if you got the engine to run, many other subsystems are going to have issues because of the incompatibility between communications protocols. 2003 and earlier use SCP/J1850 communications and 2004 and later use CAN communications.

Take care.

[CageFighter_Dan]

well this is my first post on here, normally i am on a different f150 forum,
I have done this exact engine swap project in my 97 f150 4x4 XL originally with the 4.6l (romeo) engine and swapped it with a 2003 5.4l 2v

The best advice I can give you right now is this read and memorize this post from this other forum, it is reffered to as the BIBLE of the 4.6-5.4 engine swap.
It truelly saved me alot of time, money , and just a couple naughty words nothing can completely save you from a couple of those, it happens just from opening the hood and having to get out your socket set lol

this is the link to the forum that turned my project into a 50 hr one instead of a 2 week one

http://www.f150online.com/forums/art...wap-notes.html
(it may be down temporarily for site maintanance for just a little bit)

Basically this is what i experienced first hand with the project.
Keep your wire harness and pcm from the original vehicle.
the newer engine will have a cop ignition system apposed to your coil ignition
you can swap out the the cop spark plug addapters and plug your coil directly to it, you do have to fab/ drill out the coil packs mounting bracket so you can mount it on the new engine roughly in the same place as it was on the original engine.

SAVE ! the two temp sensors on the intake manifold cross over pipe i believe they were a 19m wrench to unscrew them.

tap them into the new engines crossover( other wise you won't get temp reading in the vehicle for the first one and the second one is the sender to your pcm, and it will think your vehicle is always running at -40 degrees and run like snot) personal experience for that one lol

the tap you will need will be a 3/8 npt 18 national pipe thread, found that out the hard way as well, i found one on ebay for 4.99, beat paying over 50 bucks anywhere else if you don't have anyone with one.

the rear plug that comes out from under the intake to a sensor , not sure what it was called has a male end on it and the new engine had a female end, simply fix, cut the original off and splice it into the new engines one, only two wires pretty fool proof

as for the engine aspect for the pcm its up to bill to do his magic ( which i am still waiting on lol) with his gryphon programmer and some fine tweaking for , idle control and ship points.

I am currently driving this vehicle with out the reflash and it is doing ok as my daily driver, shift points need some work other then that and our -30 winter weather here i am very happy with the change in "balls" the truck has and all around performance, it will be amazing to the see the difference one the stock pcm actually knows what it has at its finger tips under the hood.

oh yes the other thing , the passenger side donut that connects to the manifold from the headers, is on a different angle so you need to reweld a piece of pipe for it , or get a muffler shop to do it , which i desided to do , only cost 30 bucks, i have 3" pipe tdirectly to a dynaflow exhaust straight out the back with all 4 cats out , sounds great and runs very well with no codes

any questions or need of first hand experience of this project feel free to message me or shoot an email to me and I'll do my best to help ya out

NOw Bill get me my programmer so i can raise some hell with this truck lol, or at least answer the phones , hehehehhe i know you guys are crazy busy

Dan

[CageFighter_Dan]

Notes for 4.6 to 5.4 swap Part 1 Revised 4 May 2009

Exhaust: The collectors on the exhaust manifolds are set at different angles and locations. The 4.6 exhaust might not bolt up to 5.4 manifold. You may need to have a muffler shop modify your 4.6 exhaust to match up.

Ignition: All 5.4 engines use Cop ignition. . 2000 and later 4.6 use COP ignition. 1997-99 4.6 engines use coil packs. It is easier to wire your 5.4 using the harness from the 4.6 and use the 4.6 ignition coil packs if applicable. If you use the 4.6 Coil pack ignition you will have to fab a bracket for the driver side coil pack.

Engine harness: To use a 4.6 PCM to run a 5.4 engine: The IAC harness must be relocated to the rear of the throttle body elbow. The oil sender wire on the 4.6 may be too short so measure or test fit the harness to see if it must be extended. All 97-00 and some 2001 4.6 engines use some sort of intake manifold runner control valve. Remove it from the 4.6 and plug it into the 4.6 harness and bolt it to the engine some where out of the way. Note; you can get a tune to remove its function and eliminate it all together.
All 97-98 4.6 engines use an Engine Coolant Temp sensor (ECT) and an Engine Coolant Temp sender. By the 99 Model year the ECT was dropped in both the 4.6 and 5.4 harness as the Cylinder Head Temperature sensor (CHT) was used for the PCM to monitor coolant temps. None of the 00+ 5.4s use ECT sensor or sender. Some of the 99 5.4s still use the sender to feed info to the instrument cluster. You will have to tap the intake manifold crossover pipe to fit the sensor(s) if your 4.6 has them and the 5.4 doesn’t.

Transmissions: the 4.6 and 5.4 have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. That means that all the transmissions will bolt up. All the 5.4 engines have 8 bolt crankshafts. Some 4.6 engines (ROMEO ENGINE) have 6 bolt cranks. You will need the flex plate from the 5.4.
Manual transmissions: If you don’t have an 8 bolt flywheel a flywheel from a 1997-8 4.6 Windsor engine will work. As it has 8 bolts it will bolt right up to the 5.4 crank. Remove the flex plate spacer and install a pilot bearing from a 4.6.
Special note about the different automatic transmissions and their respective harnesses. You cannot run a 4R100 transmission with a PCM that had a 4R70W transmission and vice versa. The transmission harnesses are different and will not plug into the different engine bay harness. The control functions in the PCM are not compatible so the transmission will not function properly.


Torque Converters:
4R70W
ENGINE Stall Speed Multiplication
4.2 1978-2330 2.3:1
4.6 2105-2505 2.3:1
5.4 1830-2190 1.9:1

4R100
All Engines ?????? 2.2:1
If you swap a 5.4 into a 4.6 engine bay and use the 4.6 converter you will multiply the 5.4's torque at a higher rate and at a higher stall speed which will put the torque at the transmission input shaft close to the limit if not over the limit of the 4R70W. The 99+ 5.4 produces 350 ft/lbs of torque. 90% of that is available at 2000 rpm. The stall speed of the 4.6 is above the 2000 rpm range so more than 90% is available. 350 ft/lbs x 2.3(4.6 multiplier) x 90% is 724.5 ft/lbs.

Notes for 4.6 to 5.4 swap Part 2 Revised 6 December 2008

Tuning: It is best to have a custom tune done to accommodate the extra displacement of the 5.4.
You should be able to use the 4.6 MAF as any competent tuner can adjust for it. It is always best to discuss this with your tuner.

Knock Sensor: The 97-98 99 4.6 uses a 2 wire knock sensor. The 97-98 5.4 has 3 wires of which one is a ground for the shield. Both have a Yellow /red wire to pin 57 on PCM.
1997-98-99-2000-01 Yellow/red to 57 on PCM 4.6 Same for 5.4.
97-98 Pin 91 feeds power for 4.6 and other components. Same for 5.4
1999- 2000-01 Pin 32 for power. Same for 5.4
2002+ Cannot confirm.

Accessories: Some engines have 8 rib serpentine belts and some have 6. Be sure to check so that your accessories have the correct pulley.

PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) : The 1999 model year saw the introduction of the PATS as standard equipment on the F-150. If you try to use the PCM from a PATS equipped truck (1999 +) on a non PATS equipped truck (1997-98) you will run into wiring problems. The instrument cluster in PATS equipped vehicles communicates with the PCM and they share security data. The work as a pair and if you use a different PCM they will need to be reprogrammed to work together. For a PATS capable PCM to function in a Non PATS vehicle the PATS function in the PCM must be disabled. So a 1999+ 5.4 PCM in a 1997-98 truck will need to have its PATS disabled. 1999+ 5.4 PCM in a 1999+ 4.6 Truck will need to have the PCM configured to the 4.6 instrument cluster or have the PATS disabled.

Misc: Both engines use the same engine mounts and their location on the block are also the same so your old ones will fit. Unbolt and place aside the AC and PS. You need to remove the intake manifold for the engine to come out. Yes there are 3 bolts on the starter.

[RobbyMartin]

Apparently, the mechanic and I had a miscommunication about the engine chosen. What I'm actually getting is a 2v 5.4 from a 2003 used vehicle. He swore that a 3v would be no sweat but I think he re-evaluated and figured that a 2v was less of a headache and I fully understand. I'm still waiting for the truck to get back to me to see the final result.

[CageFighter_Dan]

well the mechanic made the right dicision in my oppinion. wayyy to much extra bs with trying to do a 3v converstion, i have the exact engine in mine that he is talking about. And i love the results so far, they will be even better once the tuner is here next week from bill with the custom tunes sent via the internet. Good luck and keep us posted on how it comes along

[RobbyMartin]

OK, here's apparently what I'm ending up with....a 1997 5.4L from an Expedition with 71,000 miles on it.

Now my question is....will there be any complications if I want to buy a Gryphon for a '97 5.4L engine that replaced an '02 4.6L?

I don't know if this helps but here's what the valve cover sticker reads:
7G896AB
Ford Winsor Ontario Canada
*963200575*
417 11-15-96 5.4L

I just want to make sure that I can get aftermarket parts (underdrive pulleys, intake, headers, etc) and get a Gyphon for this year motor without any conflicts with the difference in years.

[Power Hungry]

I am not aware of any significant differences between those years, although I've never really looked very closely at them. Mechanically, you'll have to break out the diagrams and see. As for the tuning, it's not too huge a deal. A couple light mods and it should be pretty straightforward.

Nice writeup, Dan. You'll be getting some play money for your efforts.

[Jackpine]

And Dan, I'm copying your contribution to our new Resource Library! Very nice bit of information! Thanks bunches!

- Jack

[CageFighter_Dan]

glad to be of any help

[RobbyMartin]

I am no mechanic but I am now officially ticked off!

After reading various posts from this and other Ford Truck sites, I now know my mechanic does not have a clue anymore. He simply bit off more than he could chew and is scambling to make this engine run BUT it won't crank up because of the anti-theft (PATS) device. The fuel system is shut down and the mechanic won't believe anything I have read about this issue.

He installed the '97 engine, harness and ECM that wasn't equipped with PATS into my 2002 truck that still has the original PATS device installed. Correct me if I read things wrong but isn't this a problem? Doesn't the ECM and the PATS have to communicate with each other in order to start? I need help...more like he needs help. I'm ready to tow this truck back home and try to get it right myself.