Settings/ Alarms

mmandley · #1 Fri, March 27th, 2009, 06:05 PM

Hi everyone.

Im looking threw all the display options on the Gryphon and it of course has lots of Temps you can put up for displaying.

Trans
Oil
Intake
Head
Coolant

SO im curios what is the temperature i need to start to be worried about?

Coolant of course 180 is prime up to 240 is getting pretty hot

What about Trans and Intake, Head Oil

I wouldn't know what safe and unsafe temps are for these so looking at them that's all im really doing and id like to know when i need to start worrying if im displaying these say when im on the highway pulling my boat.

2006 F150 5.4L engine 4x4 A/C Automatic trans

***Jackpine*** · #2 Fri, March 27th, 2009, 07:22 PM

It's funny, this was a question I asked on f150online and I almost got beaten to death in "flame" posts - "Use the search button", "Who cares, the computer takes care of it", and so on.

Here's what I found out, pretty much on my own:

First, there's no actual sensor for the coolant, it's temperature is "inferred" from the Cylinder Head Temperature (CHT) sensor, so, I see no real reason to monitor it at all. I monitor the CHT, and, on hot days under normal driving it tends to stay in the 206-208 degree range. If I put the truck under heavy load, climbing a long hill pulling the trailer at higher RPM, I've seen it get to 216-218. Never higher. The coolant temperature gauge on my dash doesn't change at all, and, it really should be in the 195 degree range. That's what your thermostat is rated at.

A CHT of 258 puts the engine into failsafe mode and 310 causes the engine to shut down.

Oil temperature can really bounce around. I've seen it jump to 250 or so under heavy load conditions. Usually, though, it's close to the CHT. The only thing I can find on Ford's recommended oil is that its flash point (when it ignites) is 365 degrees. The owner's manual says to change it every 3000 miles or 3 months if used in severe service.

According to the New Jersey Forest Fire Service, using f350 and f450 trucks, if transmission fluid is operated at no higher than 175 degrees, it should last about 100,000 miles. Prolonged operation at 195 degrees, it's good for only 50,000 miles. At 240 degrees, it breaks down rapidly, ruining it for further use. Now, our f150's don't use the same transmission, but I'd bet the fluid has similar properties. I've seen the TFT climb to the 220 degree range too, while pulling a trailer up a long hill (torque converter unlocked, in a lower gear and at 3000-4000 RPM) during the summer, at near 100 degree outside temps.

Oh, I was worried about max RPM too, since there's no "redline" and we can adjust it with the Gryphon. The only thing I found was that the Torque Converter starts to "balloon" at 5400, so that seems a good limit to me.

I've never even thought of looking at intake temps, and have no idea what they should be.

There, no flames, no snide remarks, just the answers as I know them. And, I'm not an authority! If anyone thinks these numbers are wrong - PLEASE, chime in!

- Jack

mmandley · #3 Fri, March 27th, 2009, 07:51 PM

Thanks for not bashing me and flaming about me being nieve about this. I am really good at some things but ill be honest even though i work for one of the biggest computer companies in the world, i dont know very much when it comes to software and settings and such. i know physical things, im a hands on person and i work well with stats and data but not the best data tracker lol.

The info you gave is great i was looking for some ball park numbers to watch for, im afraid to ask the dealer anything and ive been finding it very difficult to find any real specs and numbers on my engine.

Maybe i need to check this F150 forum place out.

***88Racing*** · #4 Fri, March 27th, 2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

It's funny, this was a question I asked on f150online and I almost got beaten to death in "flame" posts - "Use the search button", "Who cares, the computer takes care of it", and so on.

Here's what I found out, pretty much on my own:

First, there's no actual sensor for the coolant, it's temperature is "inferred" from the Cylinder Head Temperature (CHT) sensor, so, I see no real reason to monitor it at all. I monitor the CHT, and, on hot days under normal driving it tends to stay in the 206-208 degree range. If I put the truck under heavy load, climbing a long hill pulling the trailer at higher RPM, I've seen it get to 216. Never higher. The coolant temperature gauge on my dash doesn't change at all, and, it really should be in the 195 degree range. That's what your thermostat is rated at.

A CHT of 258 puts the engine into failsafe mode and 310 causes the engine to shut down.

Oil temperature can really bounce around. I've seen it jump to 245 or so under heavy load conditions. Usually, though, it's close to the CHT. The only thing I can find on Ford's recommended oil is that its flash point is 365 degrees. The owner's manual says to change it every 3000 miles or 3 months if used in severe service.

According to the New Jersey Forest Fire Service, using f350 and f450 trucks, if transmission fluid is operated at no higher than 175 degrees, it should last about 100,000 miles. Prolonged operation at 195 degrees, it's good for only 50,000 miles. At 240 degrees, it breaks down rapidly, ruining it for further use. Now, our f150's don't use the same transmission, but I'd bet the fluid has similar properties. I've seen the TFT climb to the 210 degree range too, while pulling a trailer up a long hill (torque converter unlocked, in a lower gear and at 3000-4000 RPM).

Oh, I was worried about max RPM too, since there's no "redline" and we can adjust it with the Gryphon. The only thing I found was that the Torque Converter starts to "balloon" at 5400, so that seems a good limit to me.

I've never even thought of looking at intake temps, and have no idea what they should be.

There, no flames, no snide remarks, just the answers as I know them. And, I'm not an authority! If anyone thinks these numbers are wrong - PLEASE, chime in!

- Jack

Good info Jack!
Thank you!
I'll be writing these numbers down.

Lars

Sburn · #5 Sat, March 28th, 2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

I monitor the CHT, and, on hot days under normal driving it tends to stay in the 206-208 degree range. If I put the truck under heavy load, climbing a long hill pulling the trailer at higher RPM, I've seen it get to 216. Never higher. The coolant temperature gauge on my dash doesn't change at all, and, it really should be in the 195 degree range. That's what your thermostat is rated at

A CHT of 258 puts the engine into failsafe mode and 310 causes the engine to shut down.

The above sounds very correct. I see pretty much the same temps. Also, assuming a normal 50/50 coolant/water maix and 15 lbs cap, that means stuff starts to boil around 265 degrees. So Ford's failsafe mode at 258 makes sense.

Quote:

Oil temperature can really bounce around. I've seen it jump to 245 or so under heavy load conditions. Usually, though, it's close to the CHT. The only thing I can find on Ford's recommended oil is that its flash point is 365 degrees. The owner's manual says to change it every 3000 miles or 3 months if used in severe service..

I can't say about this one because 4.6s don't have the oil temp sensor. But from my mecahnical gauge days, oil temp pretty much follows water temp.

Quote:

According to the New Jersey Forest Fire Service, using f350 and f450 trucks, if transmission fluid is operated at no higher than 175 degrees, it should last about 100,000 miles. Prolonged operation at 195 degrees, it's good for only 50,000 miles. At 240 degrees, it breaks down rapidly, ruining it for further use. Now, our f150's don't use the same transmission, but I'd bet the fluid has similar properties. I've seen the TFT climb to the 210 degree range too, while pulling a trailer up a long hill (torque converter unlocked, in a lower gear and at 3000-4000 RPM).

This also sounds very correct and seems to match Ford's maintenance schedules. "Normal" driving, no load, no tow, my TFT runs no higher than 175. Stop-and-go, or some light towing bumps it up another 20 degrees. So going by Ford's maintenance, I can go 150K miles before changing trans fluid. Add in that towing or stop-and-go, with those extra 20 degrees, puts me into the maint. schedule that says to change fluid at 30K miles.

Quote:

I've never even thought of looking at intake temps, and have no idea what they should be.

Agreed. No point in watching IAT. Moving at speed, it's close to the ambient. At a stop light, it sucks up the warmer air from under the hood (even drawing from the cooler fender area) and goes up 30+ degrees. So, there's really nothing to be done about it other than as an "FYI".

Quote:

There, no flames, no snide remarks, just the answers as I know them. And, I'm not an authority! If anyone thinks these numbers are wrong - PLEASE, chime in!

- Jack

It's nice participating in a civil forum...:tiphat:

svt2205 · #6 Thu, December 10th, 2009, 05:39 AM

I'm showing my lack of knowledge of things with my Gryphon, but that's ok to me.

While plowing last night, heavy/wet snow, my Gryphon showed engine coolant at 220 and trans at 210. From what I read here, that 220 reading isn't actually a sensor output but an interpreted value from another. Should I switch thing so I'm reading this other sensor? (Not that I've learned how to do that yet). Plus is my trans reading a sensor output or the same sort of deal? I want to understand if I'm getting good information or "interpreted" information.

I was hot enough that the motor was rattling (pinging maybe) when I applied pressure to get the truck rolling. While the truck certainly runs 25 or so degrees hotter with the plow, this was the hottest I've run so far. (I'm ready for Spring and it's not even officially winter, ugh....)

What do you guys suggest in terms of what I should monitor (please point me to instructions on how to change things). Plus what tune would you think make more sense to run while plowing? I have a custom performance 87 and a custom tow 87. (I'm not much for changing tunes, I've only done this maybe 3 times since receiving the Gryphon this summer).

It's really a shame other sites have changed the way they have. It used to be about sharing information, with some opinions. Now it's about opinions and flaming.

Thanks for your ideas.

***Jackpine*** · #7 Thu, December 10th, 2009, 12:20 PM

Henry, I'm going to reply "inline" in your post. It's all right to ask questions in this forum, you're among friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by svt2205

I'm showing my lack of knowledge of things with my Gryphon, but that's ok to me.

While plowing last night, heavy/wet snow, my Gryphon showed engine coolant at 220 and trans at 210. From what I read here, that 220 reading isn't actually a sensor output but an interpreted value from another. Should I switch thing so I'm reading this other sensor? (Not that I've learned how to do that yet). Plus is my trans reading a sensor output or the same sort of deal? I want to understand if I'm getting good information or "interpreted" information.

I would monitor CHT, not ECT. The CHT IS from a sensor on the engine and is not inferred. The TFT reading is coming from a sensor too, so it is not inferred. I read somewhere once upon a time where this sensor was, but I can't remember its location right now and I'm not seeing it in my Haynes manual. Changing what is monitored is simple: Press the [menu] button, choose "Setup", then choose "Display". Pick the position you want to change and then choose the value from the list that appears that you want to see. Hit [Enter] to move that value into the display. The procedure is on Page 20 of the current Gryphon manual I believe.

I was hot enough that the motor was rattling (pinging maybe) when I applied pressure to get the truck rolling. While the truck certainly runs 25 or so degrees hotter with the plow, this was the hottest I've run so far. (I'm ready for Spring and it's not even officially winter, ugh....)

You were certainly under load, and the engine could have been "pinging". Even though it's cold where you are, the combination of the plow and your low speed is going to limit engine cooling. The high engine temp can certainly make pinging more likely. I doubt if it's a real problem as long as it's only happening when you plow.

What do you guys suggest in terms of what I should monitor (please point me to instructions on how to change things). Plus what tune would you think make more sense to run while plowing? I have a custom performance 87 and a custom tow 87. (I'm not much for changing tunes, I've only done this maybe 3 times since receiving the Gryphon this summer).

I would definitely use the tow tune to plow. What you are doing is not much different than pulling a heavy load. I'd monitor the CHT and TFT. If you can monitor the Oil Temperature (later model trucks can't) it will scare you, so do it if you like to be worried.

I don't really have any other things I'd advise looking at while plowing, maybe the Comm Gear?

It's really a shame other sites have changed the way they have. It used to be about sharing information, with some opinions. Now it's about opinions and flaming.

Thanks for your ideas.

I hear you about the other sites. We're TRYING to get f150online "cleaned up" and it's pretty good now.

- Jack

svt2205 · #8 Sun, December 13th, 2009, 06:26 AM

I'll make the adjustment to check out the CHT. It's all of 7 degrees out there this morning (still dark). Is this something that can be changed while it's this cold out? You guys did a good job of educating me on the "tricks" of programing changes when it's cold. (warm things up and be sure battery is fully charged).

I've learned more regarding the hot running and all. I've now run hot 2 additional times. Unfortunately, these were without the plow. So, something's going on. Both times happened while idling. I did pull 2 codes (no CEL) (codes have been cleared). P0483 Fan Performance and P0528 Fan Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal. I've not found anything useful from Google on these. I did find stuff for folks with the 6.0 PSD and this code. As well as a reference to a TSB (can't located a copy of it) for a 2008 Super Duty. Apparently if you plow with 2008 SD without the factory plow prep package, you may get this code. More research is necessary on this one. I don't know if the codes were recorded while plowing or after.

Regarding the performance vs tow tune. I've got ample power in either tune to plow. Heck, Ford gave me more then enough in it's stock form. But I run the performance tune because the shifting seems better (to me). In the tow, it seems like it hangs in low gears longer (good thing for towing) but without a tow load, it just doesn't feel right (again, to me). I guess I could adjust something, but it's much easier to leave Bill's handy work as it is. Plus, I'm sure I don't know what I'm doing.

You mentioned "comm gear" what's that?

Thanks again for your help. It's greatly appreciated.

***Jackpine*** · #9 Sun, December 13th, 2009, 02:51 PM

Comm Gear is just one of the PIDs you can monitor. It shows what gear you're in and if the torque converter is locked or unlocked.

I wonder if you have a faulty fan speed sensor, or a broken wire to it? If the fluid clutch for the fan is not locking up when the engine gets hot, you would get overheating. Isn't your truck still under warranty? I'd get this checked out if I were you.

And, changing the display should not be subject to temperature problems. If you see the display normally, all you're doing is changing what the Gryphon is showing you. I believe you can do that with the engine running too, since it doesn't involve the PCM.

I still can't help feeling a tow tune is better for plowing than a performance tune. One thing about a tow tune is that it is slightly richer, which helps to keep engine temps lower. I'd be happy if others, like Lars or Bill would add their opinions here on this, because I could be totally out to lunch in my opinion.

- Jack

***88Racing*** · #10 Mon, December 14th, 2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svt2205

I'll make the adjustment to check out the CHT. It's all of 7 degrees out there this morning (still dark). Is this something that can be changed while it's this cold out? You guys did a good job of educating me on the "tricks" of programing changes when it's cold. (warm things up and be sure battery is fully charged).

I've learned more regarding the hot running and all. I've now run hot 2 additional times. Unfortunately, these were without the plow. So, something's going on. Both times happened while idling. I did pull 2 codes (no CEL) (codes have been cleared). P0483 Fan Performance and P0528 Fan Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal. I've not found anything useful from Google on these. I did find stuff for folks with the 6.0 PSD and this code. As well as a reference to a TSB (can't located a copy of it) for a 2008 Super Duty. Apparently if you plow with 2008 SD without the factory plow prep package, you may get this code. More research is necessary on this one. I don't know if the codes were recorded while plowing or after.

Regarding the performance vs tow tune. I've got ample power in either tune to plow. Heck, Ford gave me more then enough in it's stock form. But I run the performance tune because the shifting seems better (to me). In the tow, it seems like it hangs in low gears longer (good thing for towing) but without a tow load, it just doesn't feel right (again, to me). I guess I could adjust something, but it's much easier to leave Bill's handy work as it is. Plus, I'm sure I don't know what I'm doing.

You mentioned "comm gear" what's that?

Thanks again for your help. It's greatly appreciated.

Yourt fan isn't old school anymore.
The fans on 07+ are now electronically controlled.
So if its under warranty get it in and have them take a look at it.
Remember to put your truck back to stock and remove gryphon from truck.