4R100 Tranny Upgrade...Need a Program Change?

ChrisCNC · #1 Mon, July 9th, 2012, 11:16 AM

Just recently went through a VERY reputable Ford tranny guy here on the West Coast. He went through the transmission and beefed it up, bigger bearings, best torque converter money can buy (in his opinion), new pressure plate, valve body, springs...etc. I've known of him for over 20 years and have had some of my good friends have the exact same thing done to their tranny's. I'm confident of his work and my friends have had nothing but success using him (they abuse their trucks IMO, I tend to baby mine).

Just got back from a trip with my new tranny. I've got a 2003 F250 with 35" tires and pulling a 5000# trailer, am using the PHP 80 HP, standard Tow program. Pulling up one of the main pulls from the Willamette Valley (Lebanon, OR through Sweet Home to Sisters called, "Tombstone Summit") is a 10 mile pull at 10 - 11%. Twisty-turney, 35 mph corners and some spotty rough road all the way up. I had a difficult time getting the Torque Converter to Lock up in 3rd gear. I had to pull over twice because my temp gauge alarmed out (at 225) and I was at 240 degrees and climbing fast by the time I found a place to pull over.

I'd have to slow down for rough road (and the truck would need to shift into 2nd) and when I accelerated back up it would go into 3rd and I could not get TCL. I'd try to accel and back off, hard accels, soft accels, everything. Near the top the road straightened out some and I was able to stay in 3rd with TCL and the temps would stay around 216 which is acceptable.

Is this something that should be addressed with programming? Or do you think I need to go back to the Tranny place and see what they can do. My other friends (one in particular) are pulling 12,000 to 18,000 tow haulers up the same grade with bigger tires (on the same 2003 trucks) but with different programs (One has Standard Edge, One has SuperChips).

Please let me know what you think as soon as convenient. I'd like to talk to my tranny guy and get this resolved asap.

Thank you and Sincerely,

ChrisCNC · #2 Mon, July 9th, 2012, 01:42 PM

Just spoke to the Tranny guy. He's willing to double check his work (no cost to me but a MAJOR hassle since I have to take time off work 2X to get it to him and get it back.

He did say to let PHP know that the stall speed on the new Torque Converter is lower, and that it is a triple disk setup.

***cleatus12r*** · #3 Mon, July 9th, 2012, 08:59 PM

It doesn't matter at all what the "stall speed" is. If the torque converter clutch is not being applied (but did before the transmission was replaced), then something is wrong with the build. NOT the tuning.

ChrisCNC · #4 Tue, July 10th, 2012, 11:59 AM

Thank you for the quick reply, I appreciate it!

Your comment, "If the torque converter clutch is not being applied (but did before the transmission was replaced)...", really got me trying to remember exactly how things have played out.

I purposely avoided that section of the pass (went ~25 miles out of the way to go around it) after I got my bigger tires, and before I upgraded the tranny. I didn't want to tax the stock transmission since my friend smoked 2 stock trannies and I wasn't willing to go down that path carrying my family along.

I went over that section with the stock tires and stock tranny pulling the same trailer before and did not have an issue. The two things that changed this time was the bigger tires (35") and the beefed up transmission. This is the first time over that section of pass with both the bigger tires and the new transmission.

Do you still think it's probably the transmission build? Thank you for your input, I really value it.

Sincerely,

***cleatus12r*** · #5 Tue, July 10th, 2012, 08:55 PM

As an example:

If the torque converter clutch applied at 35 MPH (as indicated on the speedometer) with the small tires, then the torque converter clutch apply will STILL happen at an indicated 35 MPH on the speedometer with the larger tires. Nothing will EVER change in that regard unless the tuning is changed or the speedometer is recalibrated. The tires do not change the engine RPM/driveshaft speed relationship; they only change the actual road speed vs. the speedometer.

ChrisCNC · #6 Tue, July 10th, 2012, 09:15 PM

Thank you for answering all my questions, I'll head back to the tranny shop!

Any bets on what the problem may be?

ChrisCNC · #7 Mon, July 16th, 2012, 11:36 AM

I took time off work this Saturday, hooked my trailer up to the truck and made the ~100 mile roundtrip down to the transmission place that upgraded my transmission. We hooked the system to his scanner to get an idea of what was going on and proceeded to tow the trailer up and down the hills of southwest Eugene toward the coast.

I was able to duplicate the problem readily, between a throttle position of approximately 1.8 - 2.1 volts and a torque of 250 to 300 ft-lbs, if the transmission is in 3rd gear and not in TCL it will not lock up because it is never commanded to. Everytime the TC was commanded to lock up, it did so.

So what happens is this, I'm towing trailer and family over a pass and coming out of a sharp corner or rough patch of road I press down on the throttle and the system shifts out of 3rd w/TCL and into 3rd WO/TCL and it will not go back into TCL because it is never told to. The road is such that I cannot accel up fast enough and if I let off the throttle is slows down too much. Since it is never commanded to lock up the torque converter it does not and the transmission overheats quite quickly on the steep grade.

My tranny guy is more than happy to engage in a phone conversation to help get this system working like should, and better than it is.

Let me know as soon as convenient.

***cleatus12r*** · #8 Mon, July 16th, 2012, 09:36 PM

So what you're saying is that you need the torque converter clutch to be commanded to apply at a lower accelerator pedal position in third gear. My guess is that it worked the same way before, but you never noticed it because you never took that trip before.

It's working correctly, just not in the manner that you intend to use it. It sounds to me like we need to play chip tag to remedy your situation.

ChrisCNC · #9 Tue, July 17th, 2012, 11:52 AM

Thank you for the reply, Cleatus,

You'd know what the best remedy is I'm sure!

My wife and I got to talking about it and actually, the last time we went over that pass was before we had the custom tunes, it was with whatever came on the gryphon as I had the CTS, but not the custom PHP tunes yet, stock tires, stock tranny.

Let me know how you'd like to proceed. Tony, the owner of Transmisison Solutions, said he'd help as much as possible, including talking with PHP in phone conversations.

Thank you, I appreciate PHP's knowledge and willingness to help... I brag you guys up whenever I get the chance!

Sincerely,

***cleatus12r*** · #10 Tue, July 17th, 2012, 11:58 PM

I never noticed that you had a CTS. This will be easier than I thought initially....however possibly a little more time consuming due to the requirement of Bill putting the calibration download on Fusion (busy guy that he is).

At least we don't have to ship anything back and forth!!

I'll take a look at the calibrations (I assume that the towing program is the only one that needs repair) and make the necessary adjustments to either:

A. Keep the torque converter clutch applied with lower speed and more accelerator pedal position.

B. Allow the torque converter clutch to be commanded applied at lower road speed with more accelerator pedal position.

C. Combination of both.

Let me know how you want to proceed.