Absolute Newbie with Questions

[PitCritter]

Hi. I am brand new here and I have lots of questions. I have used the "Search", but I must not be asking for the right info. I'll ask here. I'm not looking to be spoonfed, but I am interested in getting correct, complete info.

1. What is a "Gryphon Programmer"?

As far as I can tell, it's not really a distinct piece of hardware. My best guess is that when someone here (or on another forum) talks about a Gryphon, they actually mean an Edge programmer of some sort with programming provided by GoPowerHungry. For my 2010 F-150, I'd be buying a CS, which Edge calls an Evolution CS. Am I close?

2. What are the advantages of a Gryphon?

My alternative, after much reading elsewhere, is an SCT X3. As far as I can tell, these two units use a different philosophy. Not so much in the adjustments they make to the vehicle, but in the actual programming methodology.

With the X3, you turn off the vehicle, plug in the programmer, apply programming and then disconnect.

With the Gryphon, the programmer is plugged in permanently and changes can be made on the fly. It also acts as a datalogger and can display key vehicle parameters real-time. Since I'll be towing quite a bit, I assume that I can change between "Performance" and "Towing" whenever it's appropriate.

Once again...am I close?

3. Assuming my above guesses are right, when I unplug the Gryphon, do I retain the "Tune" I've applied to the vehicle or do I need to be connected all the time?

For pretty much the same money, if my guesses here are correct, it looks like the Gryphon is the obvious choice. Why are so many people on the SCT bandwagon? Is it because it took so long to get the Gryphon to market for the new F150s?

I'll look forward to any and all answers here almost as much as I'm looking forward to the delivery of my new truck.

Thanks, Pit.

[Longshot270]

Originally Posted by PitCritter

Hi. I am brand new here and I have lots of questions. I have used the "Search", but I must not be asking for the right info. I'll ask here. I'm not looking to be spoonfed, but I am interested in getting correct, complete info.

1. What is a "Gryphon Programmer"?

As far as I can tell, it's not really a distinct piece of hardware. My best guess is that when someone here (or on another forum) talks about a Gryphon, they actually mean an Edge programmer of some sort with programming provided by GoPowerHungry. For my 2010 F-150, I'd be buying a CS, which Edge calls an Evolution CS. Am I close?
Yes, it is basically an Edge CS but with slightly improved "canned" tunes and the ability to download custom tunes. I dont think the CS/CTS line have other improved features like the older gryphons due to complications with Edge.

2. What are the advantages of a Gryphon?

My alternative, after much reading elsewhere, is an SCT X3. As far as I can tell, these two units use a different philosophy. Not so much in the adjustments they make to the vehicle, but in the actual programming methodology.

With the X3, you turn off the vehicle, plug in the programmer, apply programming and then disconnect.

With the Gryphon, the programmer is plugged in permanently and changes can be made on the fly. It also acts as a datalogger and can display key vehicle parameters real-time. Since I'll be towing quite a bit, I assume that I can change between "Performance" and "Towing" whenever it's appropriate.

Once again...am I close?

Not dead on for this one. They gryphon programmers do not have to plugged in all the time. They also cannot make adjustments on the fly (you might be thinking of the phoenix chip after these two points). It can display parameters real time but I dont think the CS or CTS are capable of datalogging yet.

3. Assuming my above guesses are right, when I unplug the Gryphon, do I retain the "Tune" I've applied to the vehicle or do I need to be connected all the time?

Yes, after you program the truck's computer it stays until you either return the truck to stock or to another tune...or in worst case scenario, a dealership reflashed your truck's computer making the programmer about as usefull as a paperweight.

For pretty much the same money, if my guesses here are correct, it looks like the Gryphon is the obvious choice. Why are so many people on the SCT bandwagon? Is it because it took so long to get the Gryphon to market for the new F150s?

Both programmers are good devices but yes, there are more people with the SCT programmers because SCT was quicker with the 2009 series. The Gryphons took so long to roll around because Edge was having trouble and didn't release the CS/CTSs for the newer trucks.

I'll look forward to any and all answers here almost as much as I'm looking forward to the delivery of my new truck.

Thanks, Pit.

My input in blue.

...and dont worry about the search, doesn't work for me either lots of times.

[PitCritter]

Longshot, thanks for the reply. I'm glad you set me straight about the actual programming procedure.

As far as "datalogging" goes, I guess I was using the term incorrectly. I was referring to the live 1/4 mile and 0-60 feature on the Gryphon. After some more reading, I now understand datalogging a little better.

I do like the digital display on the unit. The readouts could be handy.

Is the actual programming procedure different from vehicle to vehicle? I know with the SCT, they recommend turning the ignition "on", but not starting the truck during programming. They also suggest that you should pull the fuses for things like an electric fan or anything else that might come on automatically. I understand that losing battery power would be a bad thing, but is all that really necessary?

Is the programming process similar with the Gryphon?

[shotgun]

Originally Posted by PitCritter

Longshot, thanks for the reply. I'm glad you set me straight about the actual programming procedure.

As far as "datalogging" goes, I guess I was using the term incorrectly. I was referring to the live 1/4 mile and 0-60 feature on the Gryphon. After some more reading, I now understand datalogging a little better.

I do like the digital display on the unit. The readouts could be handy.

They are! I really like my CTS.

Is the actual programming procedure different from vehicle to vehicle? I know with the SCT, they recommend turning the ignition "on", but not starting the truck during programming. They also suggest that you should pull the fuses for things like an electric fan or anything else that might come on automatically. I understand that losing battery power would be a bad thing, but is all that really necessary?

ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY YES. PERIOD. TURN EVERYTHING OFF.

Let me say it again.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL THAT THE BATTERY HAVE THE MINIMAL LOAD DURING THE ENTIRE FLASHING PROCESS.

99% of the programming failures I've read about are either 1) user error 2) bad/aged/declining/etc. batteries 3) load on the battery during the flashing process (stereo, fans, headlights, etc.).

Many owners also use a battery tender during the flashing process just in case the battery voltage drops. They're cheap insurance IMHO.

Is the programming process similar with the Gryphon?

Pretty much identical. If you're interested, you can download a CS/CTS, Fusion, and MyStyle manuals at Edge's website.

Hope this helps...

[Longshot270]

Shotgun has it pretty well covered but there are some things I'd like to add.

Originally Posted by PitCritter

Longshot, thanks for the reply. I'm glad you set me straight about the actual programming procedure.

As far as "datalogging" goes, I guess I was using the term incorrectly. I was referring to the live 1/4 mile and 0-60 feature on the Gryphon. After some more reading, I now understand datalogging a little better.

During the actual 1/4 mile and 0-60 tests I'm not sure. I've got the old fashioned Gryphon and you dont see your PIDs. But I think that may have been changed for the CS/CTS. If not then pay attention to your final speed on the 1/4 mile and do it again with the PIDs.

I do like the digital display on the unit. The readouts could be handy.

Yeah, they aren't vital but they are handy.

Is the actual programming procedure different from vehicle to vehicle? I know with the SCT, they recommend turning the ignition "on", but not starting the truck during programming. They also suggest that you should pull the fuses for things like an electric fan or anything else that might come on automatically. I understand that losing battery power would be a bad thing, but is all that really necessary?
Is the programming process similar with the Gryphon?

Nope, the programming is the same. You start out with the key on/engine off to start programming. The reason you dont want any battery load is because to reflash the computer the programmer must use large amounts of electricity. I think it takes over 24 volts to trigger the computer into rewriting. For a 12 volt battery it means you start going through amps much faster. This is why you want a strong healthy battery that isnt needing to run anything else.

In blue again.

[Jackpine]

Ah, it's actually 18 Volts to "command" the PCM to accept a new tune I think. The programmer has a "transformer" (sort of) that raises battery voltage to this level to accomplish the task. Everything else that was said about a healthy battery is dead on. The only place I change my tune is in my garage, with the headlights off, A/C off, radio off and battery tender plugged in. On an 09+ truck, the electric fans should not be on unless the engine is hot, so you probably don't have to pull the fuse.

But, something that was not mentioned is that the SCT seems to take a super long time to program the PCM! I've heard 40-45 minutes on another forum! That's a long time to be sitting with the ignition ON and the engine off. The CTS programs my 2005 truck in less than a minute. I have not heard if the programming time is longer for 09+ trucks with the CS/CTS. With a 40 minute programming time, I would definitely have a battery tender or 2 Amp battery charger connected!

Since I tow, I really appreciate the digital readouts of Transmission Fluid Temp and Cylinder Head Temp. Also, since our trailer has two batteries and a refrigerator, I want to be able to see the alternator charging voltage. The "idiot" gauges on the dash are pretty much on/off devices that really don't tell you anything useful.

One more thing - it is dead simple to disconnect and remove a CS/CTS for safekeeping if you are going to leave your truck parked in a high crime area. And, as was said, it does not have to be connected at all once the tune is loaded. The tune stays in place until it is changed by a programmer! Even removing the battery does not effect it.

Hope all this makes sense!

- Jack

[PitCritter]

Thanks guys. It looks like I've got lots more reading to do,,,

[shotgun]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Ah, it's actually 18 Volts to "command" the PCM to accept a new tune I think.

As usual, my SWAG was not even close. Thanks Jack!

The programmer has a "transformer" (sort of) that raises battery voltage to this level to accomplish the task. Everything else that was said about a healthy battery is dead on. The only place I change my tune is in my garage, with the headlights off, A/C off, radio off and battery tender plugged in. On an 09+ truck, the electric fans should not be on unless the engine is hot, so you probably don't have to pull the fuse.

Slight clarification, only the 10s come standard with electric fans.

But, something that was not mentioned is that the SCT seems to take a super long time to program the PCM! I've heard 40-45 minutes on another forum! That's a long time to be sitting with the ignition ON and the engine off. The CTS programs my 2005 truck in less than a minute. I have not heard if the programming time is longer for 09+ trucks with the CS/CTS.

My CTS takes about 1-1/2 minutes to program my 09. Note this is the Edge canned tunes. Not sure if the custom tunes will take longer.

With a 40 minute programming time, I would definitely have a battery tender or 2 Amp battery charger connected!

Yep - I do, even though the flash time is short.

Since I tow, I really appreciate the digital readouts of Transmission Fluid Temp and Cylinder Head Temp. Also, since our trailer has two batteries and a refrigerator, I want to be able to see the alternator charging voltage. The "idiot" gauges on the dash are pretty much on/off devices that really don't tell you anything useful.

One more thing - it is dead simple to disconnect and remove a CS/CTS for safekeeping if you are going to leave your truck parked in a high crime area. And, as was said, it does not have to be connected at all once the tune is loaded. The tune stays in place until it is changed by a programmer! Even removing the battery does not effect it.

Hope all this makes sense!

- Jack

My drivel in red...

[Jackpine]

Wasn't it Longshot's "SWAG" on the 24 Volts? Hell, I could be wrong too, it's just a number I heard.

Thanks for setting me straight about which trucks have e-fans though!

I think if your 09 programs in 1.5 minutes with canned tunes, the custom tunes will not take longer with a CS/CTS. But, I've seen the 40+ minute figure mentioned a couple of times for the SCT.

- Jack

[shotgun]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Wasn't it Longshot's "SWAG" on the 24 Volts? Hell, I could be wrong too, it's just a number I heard.

Damn, I could have sworn I put 13 volts in one of my posts. Jeez, I must be getting old when I can't remember when I'm wrong and I'm really not. Does that make me right?

Thanks for setting me straight about which trucks have e-fans though!

You're welcome.

I think if your 09 programs in 1.5 minutes with canned tunes, the custom tunes will not take longer with a CS/CTS. But, I've seen the 40+ minute figure mentioned a couple of times for the SCT.

Yeah - I've seen that too. IIRC it was on F150online with an XCAL3 with custom tunes from VMP...

- Jack