The kd4crs/Power Hungry/Gotts Mod (revisited - and with pictures)
 

OK - I've been reading about this approach to a CAI mod long enough that I decided to try it. Here's what I did - and I take no credit at all for any of this, it was just my implementation of the excellent ideas put out by people that came before me.

In the 2004-2008 trucks, the intake snorkel has only a 2" diameter at the end where it goes into the fender well. Other than that, it's a Cold Air Intake - so, the goal is to increase the intake opening.

We start with the intake ducting. Remove the holddown bolt (red circle) in the picture below and pull the snorkel out of the fender wall (red arrow). Once you do that, you can pull the duct away from the filter box. It will make a lot of noise that sounds like something is breaking - just smile and ignore the bad sounds. :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260001.jpg

Now that you've got the intake duct out, turn it over and you'll see two rectangular "bumps" at each end of the bellows that look like they might be "release tabs". They aren't! Instead, they sit over raised areas on the inside tube that act sort of like "tire irons" to separate the bellows from the other parts of the ducting. I separated the bellows from the duct using the circled "bump" in the picture below. (Notice I like to work on the tailgate of my truck). :o

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260003.jpg

To do this, I put the duct between my knees and then twisted the base of the bellows (where I'm holding it with one hand) all the way around, and it comes right off. (I had to use two hands to do this, but in the picture, one hand was holding the camera).

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260004.jpg

Now that it's off, you can see the duct opening, which is 3" wide here and the little square bump at the top that was the "tire iron".

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260005.jpg

Compare the 2" flared opening of the snorkel that fits inside the fender with the 3" opening of the duct upstream of the bellows and you see why the engine might have trouble getting enough air at WOT.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260006.jpg

I went to Home Depot and bought a 2 ft length of 3" ABS pipe and a 3" to 3" rubber coupler. I wanted to make sure my new duct went into the fender as far as the original snorkel, so I marked my new 3" tube with a white line to match the gasket position.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260008.jpg

Now we have a complication. The hole in the fender is an oval, about 3 1/8" high by 3 1/2" wide. There's actually a small "lip" inside this oval too and I got rid of that lip with a Dremel grinding wheel. The resultant hole is now closer to 3 1/4" high and 3 1/2" wide. (Ignore the dirty fender wall). :o

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260009.jpg

The hardest part: I had to reshape the end of my new snorkel tube back to the white line to match the 3 1/4 x 3 1/2 oval opening. I used a "Mouse" sander, pictured here with the end of the tube that I shaped.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260010.jpg

Here's the finished tube, looking straight down the intake end. The outer surface is cut down so it will just fit into the fender opening. The inside opening is a true 3" intake.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260012.jpg

The new snorkel tube will have to be angled slightly from the rest of the intake to fit into the fender properly. (It needs to enter the fender at close to a right angle), so, the other end of the tube was cut at an angle try to match the truck's tube opening angle. The length of the new snorkel on the long side is 12 1/2 ". The length of the short side is 12".

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260013.jpg

Here, I've joined the two pieces with a 3" to 3" rubber coupler. Leave the "hose clamps" loose for now.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260014.jpg

I put my new snorkel into the fender (at a right angle) and it goes in right up to the line where I stopped shaping it. It's actually through the second hole in the inside of the fender at this point. It fits quite tightly through the opening, so I'm not worried about it getting "warm" engine air.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260015.jpg

Next, I reinserted the stock intake into the filter box opening and reinserted the hold down bolt. This pulled the new snorkel out of the fender a bit. :mad2:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260016.jpg

I worked with the snorkel to redirect it back into the opening as far as possible. It's not quite perfect, but I think it's good enough. (A "bellows" connector would be ideal here). Once I got the snorkel in place, I tightened the hose clamps.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260017.jpg

This is the finished assembly. A true 3" CAI for about $13. Best of all, I can return it to stock in just a few minutes if I want to.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1260018.jpg

I've disconnected the battery overnight so the PCM will learn a new LTFT strategy and whatever else it has to learn. :confused:

So now, Bill: is there any thing wrong with this setup and, I don't need new tunes, right?

And please, this was not an attempt to one-up anyone. I have not seen a pictorial for the 2004-2008 models and this is my feeble attempt to put into practice what other, brighter people have been talking about for my model truck.

I hope it can be useful.

- Jack

:2thumbs:Thanks Jack!!!:2thumbs:

That is exactly what I was needing. I'll try this mod in a few days as long as there is no problem with the tunes on the Gryphon.

Thanks again:bow:

Mark

Jack,

First off, that was a top-notch post! I give it a 10! :2thumbs:

As for the tuning, you should have no problems with your calibrations at all. Since you are not changing anything in relation to the MAF sensor, everything should be perfectly content once the STF and LTF trims relearn. Relearn could take a day or two depending on your driving.

For what it's worth, the one I did on the 2006 at Edge looked dead like yours.

Again, good job.

Bill and Mark - Thanks bunches!

It just seemed like such a good idea, and I couldn't really find anything in any of the forums for these model years.

Please feel free to correct/improve/amplify on anything I've said. I only tried to put into practice what I'd been reading about. I KNOW there has to be things that could have been done better. And, David - please jump in with what you did. I think it may have been for earlier model trucks, which is why I decided to post my work with my 2005.

- Jack

great post
 

Jack,

I have been searching for this since Bill talked to me about the gott's mod last week (I had some questions about CAI's). I found detailed info for the 03 and older f150's, but I have not found anything with as much detail for the 04-08's as you have presented. Thanks a lot, this info is greatly appreciated it.

Very nice!:2thumbs:

Great job Jack, this is the route I'm planning on taking with my truck too.

Now all we need to do is talk Jack into making about 2 dozen of those pipes and we'll start selling them as the "J&J Snorkel Kit" so nobody has to make their own. :D

Jack, is there a reason you couldn't use the original flex bellows? That would save a couple bucks not having to by the 3" coupler hose.

As a matter of fact - :doh:

One of the things about me is that I'm rarely satisfied with a first attempt.

This morning I discovered that the 3" ABS pipe actually fits rather snugly inside the bellows of the original intake. So, I pulled my intake out of the truck again and reinstalled the bellows on the end of the tube running into the air cleaner box. Then, I slipped my new snorkel into the bellows and reinstalled it back into the truck.

Now the new intake looks like this:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...z/P1270001.jpg

The bellows is a little more flexible, and the intake fits into the fender wall better now. I used a hose clamp (tightened snugly, but not really too tight) to provide more stability, but I'm not even sure that it's needed. I didn't even bother to cut the pipe shorter, so the only change is the bellows instead of the coupler.

Making this change allowed me to wipe off the fender wall so it doesn't look so hideous. (But I could have done a better job :shrug: - jbrew, if you see this, don't barf).

So, the total cost can be reduced to one hose clamp and one length of ABS tubing. (Anyone want to buy a slightly used coupler with one missing hose clamp)? :)

No, I'm not going into the tube making business! That part took about 3 hours of careful sanding, fitting, resanding, etc.

- Jack

Looks nice with the bellows on there. Give the aesthetics of it, I'd doubt the dealer would even spot it except for the rubber grommet missing.

I do have one question (or favor) to ask... When you have time, could you pull the tube out and trace a pattern of the sanded end on a sheet of paper and scan it or fax it over? We'd like to be able to post it on the forums so folks can have a reasonable template to go by if they should decide to try and do it themselves.

For what it's worth, we might even be able to see if we can get them molded. I've got a guy that does carbon fiber molding that might be able to make them relatively inexpensively.

Once again, great job. :2thumbs:

Great post Jack. I get fly in from this dirty rig tomorrow, & now I have a project once I get to the house. I think I will even celebrate the completion with a pile of crawfish, & some cold Bud Light:drinking: :woot:. Thanks for giving me an excuse. Also I don't have to tell my wife I am spending more on my truck as well. Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

I think the carbon fiber molded idea is a great one! I'll be happy to pull, trace and fax the cross-section, but it probably would not fit into the fender wall hole without grinding off the small "lip" in the opening as I did. I measured the original oval in the fender at 3 1/8 x 3 1/2, using a pair of dividers, since I don't have any inside calipers. By grinding the opening, I was able to make the short diameter about 3 1/4". I was worried that sanding down the tube to 3 1/8 across would make it too weak.

What we really need is a tracing of the inside of the fender hole (unmodified). But, I don't see how one could get anything behind it to trace on.

- Jack

Hi guys & gals, brand new to this forum. I stumbled across it while checking out other homemade CAIs after tinkering with one of my own and this was the first one I've seen that had an excellent one for the 2004 +. I like the caron fiber idea.
Here is a pic of what I came up with (hopefully the pic works):
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...d/100_5989.jpg

The pic came out just fine AgentOrange (and welcome to the forum).

That's a pretty "sexy" looking intake. Sure doesn't look "homemade" (or cheap either).

Where'd it come from? And, what does it cost, does it work, etc., etc.?

- Jack

Thanks...It's actually the stock tube with the baffles cut off and capped. I also sealed the 6 holes you mentioned with silicone sealant. I took the bellows end off and replaced it with a flexible 3" Y pipe then I ran some 3" flexible metal ducting into the fenderwell and another length of ducting through the radiator support down to the rear of the tow hook which should add a little bit of ram air effect. I like your use of the ABS plastic pipe into the fenderwell better, however, so I might steal that idea later...BTW, do you think the end that is inserted into the fender could be heated and formed to fit inside the oval opening to avoid the sanding?
As far as it making a difference...to early to tell. I am still using the stock filter, which I plan to change to a Amsoil soon, so I doubt I have seen the full potential. I have not heard any whistling noises as of yet, but I haven't done any interstate driving or made any high RPM runs yet...I'll follow-up if I notice any strange sounds. I'll follow-up on MPG's also. Since the mod, which has only been a couple of days, I haven't driven my normal route which is very short with a lot of stopping and starting, so any numbers I would give now would be misleading.
Total cost was around $30 for the parts.
I have several other pics of the mod in my album...check 'em out.
Originally, I was going to do the same mod as you sans ABS pipe, but then I saw the Y-pipe while I was shopping for the other parts and figured hmmm...2 cold air inlets would be better than 1, so that's what I came up with.

Great write-up Jack.:2thumbs: i've never seen/heard of that modd...just the cut filter housing on the 97-03 series. Thanx for sharing that.

Wow, AgentOrange! You just blew me away!

That's what I love about talking to people on these forums, you find out there are some REALLY bright people out there!

First, your question - do I think the end that is inserted into the fender wall could be heated and formed? Yes - but I'd rather do it by some molding process. The ABS pipe is just a cheap homemade thing. To really do it right, it needs to be the same kind of plastic that is used in the original intake, which allows a thin, rigid structure. And that brings me back to my original concern. If this is all that is needed, why didn't Ford engineers give us a 3" intake in the first place? I still think there's a reason for the choked down intake. If I knew what it was, I'd feel better about defeating it. My very uneducated guess remains - they don't want you abusing the engines at WOT and high RPMs, so they limit the potential there to avoid warranty claims from people who drive that way all the time.

The "Y" IS going to bring in more air, no doubt about it. But, you get turbulence from the two intersecting sources and that COULD be a problem, or maybe not. I can't tell just from looking and I'm not smart enough to figure out a way to test for this. I'm interested that you removed and capped the resonator inlets. What led you to this approach? And, I haven't looked at your album yet, but if it's a "T", rather than a "Y" leading into the filter inlet, you could be working against yourself as ram air effect increases. But I suspect you wouldn't call it a "Y" if it wasn't.

And maybe, just maybe, your "Y" intake gets rid of harmonics that cause noise, so you don't need the resonators at all.

I just don't know. Your creation has all the hallmarks of an "invention".

As far as the filter goes - I'm skeptical about these things. If the device filters dirt out to a specific micron size, it has to restrict the flow somewhat. The only way you can overcome that restriction is to increase the filter area and the "cone" filters look like they might do that. But, as the filters start to build up crud, they actually filter better but pass less air. So, no matter what filter you use, you need to keep it clean to keep the airflow. I honestly think the stock filters do a pretty good job of compromise - size vs performance.

Oh and crap! You've got an engine compartment that looks like a surgeon's operating theater - like jbrew's. What's wrong with a little dirt - like John Madden's idea of real football? :)

- Jack

The baffle removal looks fantastic! That's a nice job. As for the "Y", that's really nice looking, too. It's amazing what you can find at Home Depot or Lowes!

After closer inspection, I am led to believe the "holes" are to allow any water collected by the intake to drain out. Even old carburetor air cleaner assemblies had an outer ring that sat lower than the filter element and the ring had holes to allow water to drain out without soaking the filter.

Good job, guys. :D

kd4crs DWV intake mod
 

Here are some pics of mine. I am going to do a write up on it and send it to Bill to post.
http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=148

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=147

I have taken the truck in for service several times and the dealership techs never noticed it.

EDIT to add: See post #71 in this thread for instructions to make the DWV intake mod.

David! Glad to see your version here too!

This has become a dynamite thread, hasn't it? I'll be looking forward to what you send in to Bill.

Bottom line, it DOES seem to be possible to have a CAI that doesn't break the bank and that DOES provide increased performance.

Bill - interesting that you think these might be water drain holes. But, in operation, the low pressure effect of the air flowing down the tube would prevent any draining. At rest, of course, water could drain.

Respectfully, sir, I'm not buying it. I think them holes is in there for some other friggin reason. And, it appears to be a Ford, "burn before reading". secret! :yikes2:

- Jack

Thanks Jack, I went ahead and put together a write up with pictures and emailed it to Bill for him to proof read and post. I concur with Bill regarding the purpose of the holes in the bottom of the stock intake tube being there for water elimination. :yesnod: The nice thing about the DWV intake mod and its variations is that it preserves the noise canceling abilities of the factory intake which is a CAI even in stock form. It just needs the restriction removed. :thumbsup:

EDIT to add: See post #71 in this thread for instructions to make the DWV intake mod.

Appearance was the only reason I removed them...I really hated they way they looked. I like the way it opens up the top of engine w/o them.

Believe me, I'm not used to this clean of an engine bay myself...I just bought the truck last October. My previous truck was a lifted '78 Bronco with a 460 last I used to mud all the time. The engine bay in that truck wouldn't come clean, no matter how hard I tried.

Thanks for the comments guys.

In restudying the intake, I'm beginning to warm up to the idea that the holes might be there to drain water. In the case of the 2 rows of three on the bottom of the intake duct, they ARE fairly close to the lowest point on the duct (before it reaches the bellows) and the front row seem to be at the exact bottom of the curvature of the duct. The back row, however is somewhat "uphill" from the bottom of the duct and this seems counterproductive.

There are three resonator chambers. The front large one has a larger hole near, but not at, the lowest point and then another, smaller hole up higher, close to the halfway point. The small rear chamber has a hole at the lowest point. The smaller front chamber has no holes at all. So, the ones with holes could have them for draining water too, but why are they not at the lowest point in the big chamber?

As I said, I'm lukewarm to the holes being drain holes, but why have some of them "uphill"?

On a related note, AgentOrange, I looked through your album at your intake mod. Nice work! However, I'm a little concerned that the intake sitting right behind the tow hook is positioned to really take a big drink of water in the event of driving through a deep puddle or maybe even just heavy rain. I know the tube runs uphill quite a distance from that point, but when the engine is at high rpm, isn't it possible that there could be enough suction to pull water up into the filter box? I like the ram effect idea, but I think if I were going to do this mod, I'd run the secondary duct up high, perhaps just under the headlight. You lose the ram effect here, but the opening would be out of the hot engine compartment.

I like the flexible metal duct into the fender well. Sure looks easier than shaping a rigid ABS tube.

- Jack

Jack,
My thoughts exactly if I only had the scoop at the bottom, but I don't think water intake would be a problem because of the second air inlet into the fenderwell. Think of drinking through a straw...If there is a hole in the straw above your favorite beverage, all you suck in is air...path of least resistance.

Yep, you're probably right! I suspect there's no way you could create a big enough vacuum to pull water up that distance.

- Jack

Looks good! Maybe put some type of soft material along the edge of the hole. I wonder if the intake noise resonates through the truck due to the pipe touching the fender??

I'm not sure about the other members.....But someone came to my door and put a gun to my head until I joined. I thought that was the norm for PHP? :eek:

Really? I don't remember doing that... All I said was that someone was going to come to your house and replace your Excursion with a 6.2L Suburban. Talk about misleading! :doh:

No noise so far...
I really don't like the way the 90 degree elbow is fastened to the frame either, via zip tie, but it'll have to do until I can firgue something else out. I don't want to drill any holes in the frame and I don't want to lose the tow hook either.

Excellent work people. :thumbsup: I am working on a tech section on my website and would like your permission to post this up Jack, and anyone else that would be willing to have it posted. Thanks. I just removed the snorkel and left it open in the engine compartment.

Feel free to post anything I've talked about kokopelli - It's NOT copyrighted and it wasn't even my idea. Just my implementation. I've also added an album in my "Albums" on this forum that shows this mod and I've included dimensions in the captions. You may want to look at that too.

I wonder if removing the snorkel and leaving the intake open in the engine compartment is a good idea though? Wouldn't that tend to draw "warm" (less dense) air into the engine, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of an improved intake?

- Jack

Thanks for the info. I will check out your Album.

As far as the hot air, this probably could be an issue, but most cold air intakes set their filter right in the compartment. Though I do agree with the logic of colder denser air. With your write up I will probably do much the same as you.:yesnod:

Some of the pictures I've seen show the filter in a kind of "box" that looks like it's there to isolate the intake area somewhat from the engine heat. It's also possible that when moving, the whole thing is a moot point anyway due to the airflow through the engine compartment (as long as you keep the intake away from the flow through the radiator).

- Jack

Again, when I get questions about leaving the end of the tube open, I always end up going back to the 60's & 70's cars that had air cleaners with the snorkel that barely made it past the valve covers.

From a performance aspect, cooler air is always more desirable than warmer air. Although, like Jack, I wonder just how much warmer the air really is getting in the intake tube when blasting along at 70 MPH. This would be an easy thing to validate since the programmers have ACT in the PIDS. If it was less than 10º difference, I'd wonder just how necessary it really is to complete the tube connection to the fender.

As for CAIs, there's no question they're drawing some amount of warm air from under the hood. Again, a quick check of the ACT before and after installing will give you the final word.

Hey Bill, did you get the write-up I emailed you? I did not see a response. Sometimes I wonder if my Hotmail account emails I send don't get eaten by the spam filters.

Sorry about that... I am still weeding through e-mails. I did see the one from you but just haven't had a chance to open it and read through it.

We'll get it up along with Jack's and AO's pictures so people can have some nice options to the much expensive CAI kits. :thumbsup:

Take care.

No problem, just wanted to be sure it didn't get lost in the ether. Thanks for offering to publish it.

Atleast it would move under it's own power....

So Bill what your saying is that we wouldn't have to get NEW TUNES for this Mod? Not like we would if we bought a CAI off the shelf. :2thumbs:

I think I may just remove that snorkel and leave everything else the same for now. I have a piece of 3" flexible PVC on order that I plan to run into the fender and re-attach to the stock intake. I'll post pics if it works. I wanted to find something that would work without sanding the hard pvc to fit the fender. I can only imagine how frustrated I'd become spending 3 hours trying to perfectly sand or grind the pvc pipe to fit:cursin:. I'll try the flex and let everyone know.

The DWV intake mod requires no sanding or fitting. I can email you the instructions if you like. Bill is going to post them on here soon. Mark_123 check your PMs. :D

EDIT to add: See post #71 in this thread for the DWV intake mod instructions.

That is EXACTLY what he said - and the only reason I tried this mod myself!

- Jack

Other than the "sexy" look of the commercial CAIs, I wonder why anyone would want them? Trust me though, I wouldn't have tried making one myself if I hadn't read Bill's thoughts on this!

Even though I love to argue obscure points, I recognize Bill's expertise in this area and I know, "I can take it to the bank".

Thanks again, Bill and Corey, for creating a forum that so far, allows us to "think out loud" and not be afraid of sounding stupid! :2thumbs: :margarita: :guiness:

- Jack

Yes, thank you Bill and Corey for the forum. :thumbsup:

Well, when I was once dumb and impressionable :rofl:...someone sold me on the idea of doing a few mods to my truck. I wouldn't do most of them again, the CAI for starters. Just wasted my money. I wish I had the info then that I have now...it would have saved me :1dollar: and :bangwall:

So I found this 12" piece of 3" black rubber-coated flexible PVC used for fish ponds (that was a mouthfull:hehe:) Anyway, I removed the snorkel, inserted the 3" pipe into the intake, then inserted the other end through the first fender wall hole and into the second fender hole. I heated the end of the pipe in hot water to make it more pliable before pushing it into the fender. I then used a black worm clamp to seal the 3" pipe in the intake leading to the engine. Overall....I'm impressed!:woot:

I had the snorkel off for a few days just letting it breath the engine bay air. The intake air temp (IAT) seemed to always be at least 10 degrees higher than ambient temp while driving. Of course, if the truck was stopped at a red light, the IAT may go to 30-50 degrees higher than outside air temp (OAT). So now with the little extension added on, the IAT=OAT while driving. Pretty cool if you ask me. I can post photos when the snow melts and the temp climbs back up (currently 20 F). Thanks to all for your ideas and pics:howdy:!!!

Mark

It's incredible how the ideas have taken off here. I think something flexible will probably work better than the "stiff" tube, since the "bend" to match the angle of the stock intake can be more gradual. This should probably produce a slightly smoother airflow, which should cut down on resistance (internal drag) a bit.

I'll be interested in your pictures, Mark. Can you remember where you got this tube? I was looking at the flexible metal tubing like Agent Orange used in his version at Ace hardware the other day. It'll certainly smooth out the bend too.

And, on the subject of air temperature - Here in Arizona, we regularly hit 105+ in the summer. We don't need one extra degree of heat from the engine into the intake when it's like that!

- Jack

Jack, got the pipe on Ebay. Oh, and I thought this was interesting. If anyone tries to make there own mods, I would leave the bellows (rubber looking flexible piece of intake from factory) in the setup. Here's why:

The rubber PVC pipe I pushed into the fender is pretty much stuck in place...it's not going to move. The other end is in the bellows section. As I was revving the engine to make myself think this mod was the coolest thing on Earth:thumbsup:, I noticed that as the engine revved and pulled to the opposite side of the fender intake, the bellows stretched to keep from pulling loose any other piece of the intake. I would imagine that any modified intake without this bellows piece might pull the intake away from the fender hole or even damage the modified intake. Just some food for thought.

Mark! What a great observation, and, thank you for posting it! I never thought of the movement of the engine under revs. I agree - the bellows needs to stay there.

- Jack

That is one reason I designed the DWV intake mod to utilize the flex section. Another reason was to absorb/reduce vibration being transmitted from the intake into the fender structure. It also helps the mod be more of a sleeper/stealth mod. I love the fact that I have taken the truck in for service several times and the dealership techs have yet to spot it. :)

Well, here's mine. Be sure to ignore the dirty engine bay. As soon as Winter leaves us I can clean the salt out of my truck:smiley_roll1:


http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=180

Looks good! :thumbsup:

Looks VERY good! Mark, where did you find the black clamp? And, I went looking for something like the pipe you used at Home Depot today, but had no luck. I wonder if I might find it at a pool supply store?

(And, now I don't feel so bad about my original pictures with the dirty fender wall. I'm extremely nervous about trying to wash the engine bay. I've read too many horror stories over on the f150 forum about wet COPs. Usually, I'd be spraying the entire engine with Simple Green and then hitting it with a high pressure hose. I've even used a pressure washer on the engine in my Honda with no ill effects).

To continue this hijack - my technique for cleaning the built up dust out of my desktop computers is to take the box out on the back patio, open it and then blow it out with my yard blower. Works like a charm!

Sorry for the hijack - it's the way my simple little mind works. :o

- Jack

Hey Jack, I think I only paid $5 plus shipping for the small piece of pipe from Ebay. The black clamp...well, I like to bass fish. I just put a new trolling motor on my Ranger boat last year, so I sprayed a couple of different sizes of clamps to use on my trolling motor sonar attachment. Anyway, this one was left over. I think I just used some $1 flat spray paint I found a Lowes. :notallthere:I have this little OCD issue that always makes me do things perfectly:notallthere: Oh yeah, the dirty engine bay is driving me crazy!!!!:bang:

So, duh!, you spray painted it! Gollee-dang! What an amazing idea! :doh:

So, I troll for "fishpond pipe" on ebay? (That's almost a pun, isn't it)? Maybe tomorrow. Seems like this stuff should be available locally.

But, the horror stories about people washing their engines really makes me nervous!

- Jack

When washing engines, it's not like the small block Fords and Chevys of yester-decade. There used to be very little space for water to collect and where it did, it was harmless.

Nowadays, you got spark plugs that slip down into 8" tubes and the only thing keeping water out is the crappy boot on the COP. Not an impressive setup even in the best of conditions. Any moisture trapped in there will only accelerate oxidation of the plug body which only goes to exaggerate the "broken plug" issue.

I don't really see a problem with cleaning the engine compartment as long as you use low pressure water and stay completely away from the top of the engine. Using any sort of pressure washer is asking for an $800 tune-up. :doh:

Whenever I clean the newer fords, I have to pull the coils out to blow that water out of the whole. PITA!

A dirty engine compartment drives me nuts too. In fact I was going to take it to the car wash this weekend and get rid of the road salt we had this week. So if I understand right, all I should do with my '08 is a little Simple Green and the regular hose and only below the level of the heads, then use my compressor to blow as much of the water out as possible, right?

That might work fine Cajun - I also remember, now that I think about it, that somebody else in the f150 forums recommended using a yard blower (like I do to clean PCs) to blow the plug wells out and dry things off.

Another cleaning product I remember now that someone uses is "Spray-n-Wash" (the stuff you spray on clothes before you put them in the washer to get rid of stains). A picture of his engine compartment looked squeaky clean.

The owners manual only says to be careful with water around the intake tube. I wonder if it's possible to force some in to the filter box through the crack where the tube joins it?

- Jack

Thanks Jack.

Just painted my hose clamp! :woohoo: Can't wait till it dries so I can put it back on and see how much better my CAI performs! :hehe:

- Jack

That and a PHP sticker on your back window will add at least 35 more horsepower to your truck! :smiley_roll1:

Good job!
 

Great ideas everyone shure beets the price of a cai!
Jack,
Might stop at a hardware store or plumbing wholesale house and get some ideas Friday or this week end of what could go into the fender well hole that would not interfear with the inner diameter of the hole and does not have to remove the lip, but can be easily be removed. I will post it if I find something.

-Lars
Forgive the spelling, life on a blackberry!

You could use those thick coupler pieces and cut a line around the
Outer edge so it seats in the fender well.

I've seen flex metal tubing that looks pretty similar to what AgentOrange used in Ace Hardware and Home Depot. He said it required NO fender modification. I've seen flex PVC online in pool supply sources, but I have yet to find it in a "brick and mortar" store. Plumbing wholesale might be a good source, Lars.

SinCity, I don't think I understand what you are proposing. I doubt any of the couplers I've seen are long enough to get into the outer fender well, and, It's not clear to me how you are cutting it?

- Jack

Well, I was thinking about a setup like MArk has on his then using a regular coupler like the 1st pic and then using a razor knife to cut a lip in in it so it seats. Or using something like the second pic on the bottom if I can find the right piece.

I am using my old intake and trying to make one for my neighbor who cannot use his hands very well (stroke). He does not want to cut or hurt his truck so I am using mine to make it and try and find a way so I dont alter his truck other than the intake from mine. You guys have given me a ton of ideas.:2thumbs:

OK, take pictures of what you come up with!

- Jack

I think I might know where sincity is going with this correct me if I am wrong. Take a no hub coupler like Jack has left over and make sure it has the same ID as the pipe or am I thinking wrong? I know they make a 3x2.5" reducer coupler(problem with this one it has a rib where the 2 pipes meet) or like the 3" one Jack used. Or take the 3" coupler and try that in there also? Is it long enough or will the sides kink in and cause less air flow/turbulance?

-Lars

These are all good ideas but I think folks are over-engineering, and over-thinking things a bit. To clarify what I mean I will go ahead and post the instructions, materials list, and pictures for the DWV intake. It really is about as simple and as easy as it gets, no grinding, no fitting, no painiting. Once Bill posts the write up I sent him I will edit this to comply with his wishes. See below:


DWV intake mod for the 2004-2008 F150 with 5.4L engine



Materials:

1. 7.5 inch length of 3 inch inside diameter black ABS DWV pipe.

2. One female-to-female 3 inch black ABS coupler.

3. One rubber downspout connector from the plumbing section of Lowes or Home Depot.

4. One 4 inch stainless steel worm clamp.

5. Small container of ABS pipe glue.



Assembly:

1. Cut black ABS pipe to length and remove any burrs from the ends.

2. Apply a light coat of ABS pipe glue to the end of the black ABS DWV pipe in a one inch wide strip. Apply a light coat of ABS glue to the inside of one end of the female coupler and immediately press the coupler into the black ABS DWV pipe with a twisting motion to fully seat the pipe into the coupler. Allow to dry 30 minutes.

3. Attach rubber downspout connector over end of female coupler and seat fully.



Installation:

1. Remove stock intake tube by removing 10mm bolt holding it in place.

2. Using a large flat blade screwdriver, insert it in the joint at the end of the flex section on the bottom where the notch is in order to remove the snorkel. Spraying silicone lubricant or WD-40 in the joint will help it come out easily. Be careful not to damage the flex section or snorkel in case you need to return to stock.

3. Loosen 4 inch stainless steel worm clamp and slip over end of flex section. Tighten the worm clamp enough that it will not fall off.

4. Insert the end of the 3 inch black ABS DWV pipe into the flex section of the intake and slide it into the flex section as far as it will go.

5. Reinstall stock intake tube and replace 10mm bolt.

6. Slide the 3 inch black ABS DWV pipe out of the flex section and seat the downspout adapter in the fender hole while compressing the flex section.

7. While holding the flex section compressed, tighten the stainless steel worm clamp to hold the black ABS DWV pipe in place.

IMPORTANT: If the flex section is not compressed the DWV intake mod may vibrate or rattle.

Pictures:

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=192
Ingredients for the DWV intake mod
http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=193
Finished DWV intake mod
http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...&pictureid=194
No restrictions here! Full 3 inch diameter end to end.
Additional pictures are in my gallery.

So, looking back at the pictures you posted, the downspout connector compresses enough to get in, and through both fender holes so it gets the air from the original source? I have to say I never thought of looking for a downspout connector (and I don't know that I've ever noticed something like that here).

Of course, it may not be necessary to get the air from that original source, but, as I said in an earlier post, here in the Arizona summers, I want to avoid as much heat as possible.

- Jack

Jack,

The smaller end of the downspout connector fits into the fender hole almost perfectly. Compressing the flex section while tightening the worm clamp insures that there is light pressure keeping the downspout connector fully seated in the fender hole. This also prevents it from making noise or vibrating. The PVC downspout connector helps prevent transmitting noise or vibration into the fender structure, similar to the rubber doughnut gasket on the stock snorkel tip.

Thank you sir! Nice post! :2thumbs:

Now I have to visit Lowes and Home Depot and see if I can find one of these downspout thingys. :)

- Jack

Jack,

I checked the web sites for both stores and Lowe's has them on the web site but Home Depot does not. Home Depot may carry them but I can't be certain since they are not on their web site. You may also be able to find a similar item at a local plumbing supply house. Anyway, here is the Lowe's link:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...DSC&lpage=none

I tried to adhere to the KISS principle during the whole development process for this mod. :)

Thank you David.

The link clarifies things nicely and now I know what I'm looking for. I like the KISS principle too, when I can see how to make it work. :doh:

- Jack

Pictures are now up in my post #71 of this thread. Also in my gallery.:fyi:

Jack and David,
Got so gunho on this decided to make pit stop on the way home and basically came back with what I saw on David's pictures. I do not think it was over engineering more like pooling ideas but speaking different languages.

Great job once again

-Lars

Please don't take my comment the wrong way, I just meant that there is no need to go out and buy a dozen different things and try to cobble them together to accomplish what we are trying to do. I like to keep the KISS principle in mind when doing little projects like the DWV intake mod. I am in no way criticizing anyone's efforts to mod their vehicle. Sometimes the simplest solution is often the best.

Do not worry, not stepping on my toes. KISS is a good policy. Thanks for posting pictures.

-Lars

Pretty coo1!

I'm new here and hesitate to start in such a way, but at the risk of being labeled a "Negative Nelly" after my first post.... is there any proof these mods actually increase airflow? The reason I ask goes back many years to my days as a Land Rover tech.

Late '80s and early '90s EFI Range Rovers had a "trumpet" on the end of of the air cleaner, similar to the part that was replaced in these examples. It necked down to a diameter many people were sure was restrictive, so they lobbed off the trumpet thinking it helped airflow.

I thought it would too, but then I took a bunch of air filters to the late, great Earl Davis for flowbench tests back when he was running the test lab at K&N. I had both a standard Range Rover filter with the trumpet and one modified similar to the way this Ford one is done. No significant difference in airflow. In fact, the trumpet actually flowed slightly more. Earl postulated that the trumpet design actually had something to do with that, smoothing and consolidating air flow, much like velocity tubes will do on carbs. I later backed that airflow test up with a dyno test.. no difference in power the chassis dyno could pick up (admittedly, chassis dynos are "numb" to small changes). Operationally, you couldn't tell a difference, except that the modified horn was noisier.

I won't say definitively that the Ford mod will flow more, or less, than the stock setup because I haven't tested it, but previous experience leads me to ask the question at least.

I have limited access to a flow bench, so in theory, I could test the various permutations of this filter. I have a stock filter from my '05 5.4 F-150 (I am running an AEM CAI). If we wanted to do a test, I could probably make that happen. Bill can vouch for me. I hope!!?

I have to agree with your statements here. It's kinda been a nagging question in my head but I'm new here so I didn't want to seem like the naysayer...I guess in my head the "velocity stack" on the intake is there to improve airflow into the intake tube by compressing and accelerating the air as it flows into the tube. Because of the inverse relationship between pressure and velocity, as the diameter of the tube increases behind the inlet and the velocity decreases, the pressure increases (I guess really it's decreasing the vacuum) in the tube. I guess if my theory's not too far off, that "trumpet" inlet tube serves to increase the density of the air charge before the throttle body...does that make sense? It would improve low-end torque and throttle response but cause slight restriction at high rpm.

Bill has dynoed this type of mod and it showed no ill effects on the airfuel ratios, long or short term fuel trims, or anything else. He said it showed an increase of 7-8 RWHP in the upper RPMs. If you search, you should be able to find his post on the forums here. I don't remember which thread it was in. The nice thing about the DWV intake mod is that it is completely reversible to be able to return to stock if needed. Nothing is damaged or permanently modified. It leaves no footprint.

I'm not saying it would hurt anything except maybe that first off-idle stab of the throttle feel. Your MAF should still see the same volume of air, just at a different rpm because of the change in velocity, so there would be no real reason to have to re-tune for it. I'll probably leave mine alone, but that's me. I don't need to push my power band any further to the right as I already have X-piped true duals which definitely changed the feel of the initial "grunt" off idle. I do think it is a great idea for somone looking for more up top. And is saves some $$$!

http://dygytalworld.ehost-services13...p?t=197&page=2

Post #14

This is in response to the excellent posts by Jim Allen and Grabber523. I was typing it but had to stop for lunch and three other posts snuck in on me!

Both Jim and Grabber make good points, and one's that worried me too, but for a different reason. First though, I have a degree in Aerospace Engineering and know that airflow theory is SUPER complicated. I've been concerned that these modifications would induce turbulence in the intake (due to a non-streamlined cross-section in the modified area) that would actually work against the increased intake area. Then too, the "squared off" end of the new intake may in fact promote turbulence too.

However, Bill brought up the point that the CAI design doesn't really come into play until you're at high RPM's, and, something he said in one of his posts convinced me that he thought the airflow was increased under those demands with the bigger opening. (I think this was reprised in one of the posts that beat me to this one).

Grabber, there IS the inverse relationship between velocity and pressure, but there's also conservation of mass. You're not going to get anything more downstream of the inlet than you had AT the inlet, and, since the flow is moving, the static pressure is always less than ambient (meaning the air is less dense than ambient). I think the restricted opening can ultimately cause a lower pressure condition to exist throughout the inlet tube and at the throttle body if RPMs are high enough. At that point, it's going to be difficult to increase power since the MAF sensor is going to say "not enough air".

Jim, I liked your "smoothing" analogy. It goes back to what I was saying about turbulence possibly restricting airflow. And, it may well be the case that you are right on this. I certainly would like to see some objective data and won't throw my trumpet snorkel away until I'm convinced it's worthless. I will say, though, that the trumpet/bellows assembly is not the most streamlined, laminar flow design I've ever looked at with the inside "bumps" just downstream of the inlet, the rings at the bellows end of the snorkel and finally, the accordion folds of the bellows itself. And, the trumpet end widens too rapidly to my eyes. It seems like it should cause turbulence of its own due to this. It doesn't look like a reasonable airfoil curve to me.

Finally, since the cross-sectional area of the tube increases with the square of the radius, we have an intake cross-section of 3.14 sq inches with the trumpet, but 7.07 sq inches with the mod. That's over twice as much intake area for a 0.5" radius increase! I feel this almost HAS to increase the flow potential!

And, AgentOrange's "RAM" air mod probably provides even more. It's possible that the increased pressure from the RAM tube sort of cancels the fender inlet contribution at high speeds, but I'm nearly certain the combined effect provides even more air mass than one of them acting alone.

Again, gentlemen, I'd love to see some objective data and I'm delighted you two were not afraid to bring this point up.

As I said in another post, maybe a month ago: That trumpet restriction is there for a reason! You can bet on it. I'm betting it's there to reduce power potential at the upper end, which might reduce engine damage and warranty claims from those who abuse their engines.

- Jack

One difference in my Land Rover example was that the trumpet was right at the end of a cylindrical filter housing with a cylindrical filter element inside. The trumpet was fairly close to the filter and not far away from the intake plenum itself. I think that scenario would be HIGHLY sensitive to any changes, where a change at the end of a system with such large interior volume would be far less sensitive to changes at the inlet.

As to the power increase, that's very telling if it was on a chassis dyno. If you can pull that much power out consistently over the margins for error that seem constant in a chassis dyno, you are doing good! What I wonder is whether what Bill tested was the J&J design, or the Agent Orange unit that eliminated the expansion chamber? Bill???

Like I said, I am willing to flow bench these mods. Can use my old housing and you guys can send the rest of the modified stuff to try. Before we start exchanging addresses, however, I'll have to make sure I can borrow the flow bench and a competent operator for a coupla hours.

Oh, I just saw and followed Agent Oranges link and it sounds like Bill was just averaging the results of a CAI system, not speaking specifically to the modified stock system we are talking about. Am I correct?

Jim, I'm certain Bill did not use the AgentOrange design. That's a pretty unique idea I think!

I'm fairly certain it was of the kd4crs ilk, or maybe even just an open tube minus the bellows and snorkel.

- Jack

I wish I could take full credit for the idea, but Banks beat me to it.
If you notice, his design also uses the fenderwell inlet.

Check it out: http://bankspower.com/products/show/32/50 lot's of info there.

I doubt my mod makes the power his does, especially because I am still using the stock filter, but the principal is the same.
I think the main point of this and the kd4crs mod is to allow the engine to get as much air as it may need and keep it as cool as possible...plus, I just like to tinker with things.

Just my .02.

I did this mod on my 08' 4.6, it was quite different since it uses the cone style filter, the PVC pipe is about 4 or 5 inches long.

I will post a picture of it when I get a chance if wanted.

I have discussed this with Bill a couple of times and he said that he dynoed this type of mod several years ago when he was working up the calibrations for the EDGE Evo tunes. I believe he said that he also tried it with the snorkel removed just breathing air from the engine bay and it showed about the same gains. Personally, I like the idea of going back to the fender and taking cooler air from the stock location since cooler air is more dense and makes more power. Also that location is less likely to ingest any water unless you manage to submarine the nose of the truck, in which case the last thing you will be worried about is where your intake air is coming from. :yikes2:

Post it, I haven't seen the new style yet.

Not mine but with the mod the only difference is where it meets the fender all you can see is the PVC pipe coupler I will get a pic of mine up later

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...903/engine.jpg

The 04-08 F150s with the 4.6 engine have a different intake and filter arrangement. It also has a snorkel tip that goes into the fender hole so it can be removed and replaced with a straight pipe similar to the DWV intake mod for the 5.4L engine. I think there is also a silencer insert in the intake tube downstream of the filter housing that some folks have removed to improve flow and add a ponies.

EDIT to add: It looks like the 08 pictured above has a different style intake than the 05 with the 4.6 that I looked at regarding the silencer removal. See the link below:

http://www.f150online.com/forums/1821762-post13.html

Yeah I didn't look at the other part of the intake, it looks all straight through, does that extra part on the front really matter? I just replaced the snorkel with 3 inch PVC, and I even bought black paint to paint the PVC cause I couldn't find black PVC but you can't even see the PVC since the coupler covers it all. I don't think anyone would know I did it cause it looks stock, I'll try to get a pic tomorrow.

Real interesting thread, don't know how I overlooked this weeks ago. I did this mod about 6 months ago and had it listed on my custom tune sheet when I got my 87 performance tune. My setup is almost identical to Jack's second version except with flat black paint and the painted hose clamp. I also am using an AEM DryFlow panel filter which makes quite a difference over the stock panel filter acording to my "seat of the pants" dyno. I have confirmed this when I removed the AEM to wash it and put the stock filter in until the AEM dried. One other difference I did was to plug the factory baffles from the inside instead of removing them. In theory this should give a smoother air flow over the stock setup (Jack your thoughts?). It does give it a little more "throat" in sound when you open it up. All said and done I've spent less than $5 on parts and about 1 hour in time on the original setup with a little tweaking later. Was definitely worth the effort in my opinion and alot of fun to do! :2thumbs:

I think you're talking about the "resonators" here? Those three weird things I had no idea what they were for until I started reading forums and learned about intake noise? :hehe:

I'm quite certain they are "dampers" to reduce intake noise. If I'm right, they produce shock waves that cancel the ones that appear in the intake due to the inlet air flow. I doubt plugging them has had much effect except to make your intake louder. I left mine open, and, I think my intake noise is somewhat louder also, but not much. It's possible, quite probable really, that with a different intake area, you might need a different damper configuration. It might be instructive to block them one, two or three at a time in all seven (did I get that right?) combinations. I may try that if I get into a really experimental mood. I really don't think they have much of any effect on the air mass into the throttle body though, so I'd leave them open in the meantime.

Oh, and I've painted my hose clamp too. I know that's added 30 HP and 25 ft-lbs of torque! :2thumbs: :smiley_roll1: :rofl:

- Jack

Well installed the streight pipe on my truck yesterday. Took about 1.5 hours sanding and fitting. I hope it makes things flow better, and give me a little more HP. This was a great idea. Cheap to..

Okay...

I finally got the writeup in the FAQ section. :2thumbs:

F-150 Intake Snorkel Removal

Thanks to all those who contributed. Keep those ideas coming so we can build a nice library of technical documentation. :D


In regards to the Dyno testing of the snorkel, I've tested both the snorkel mod both with the replacement tube and just the open bellows with nearly identical results in both HP and AFR. This leads me to believe that turbulence that far upstream is not an issue in relation to either efficiency or MAF accuracy. It is certainly more stable than kits like the K&N which moves the MAF sensor mounting location 12" towards the air filter to end up about 6" away. Tell me that's not going to be affected by turbulence. :o

Anyway, given the data I've compiled on the this modification, I'd sooner do this modification rather than spend money on a CAI.

Nicely edited, Bill! :2thumbs:

- Jack

Bill,

Thank you very much for publishing the information along with your insights, and giving it a home. I'm certain that this will help lots of people get a little more from their trucks without costing an arm and a leg. :cool_beans: