2000 International 4700 with orion

[Absolution]

Well, this is going to be a bit different to show my initial experience with the Orion system as I sadly was not there to experience it being put on my truck.

That being said I have been patiently waiting for it's debut. But for what ever reason on June first I called to see if there was any new news on the unit. By the stars aligning they said today was the first day it was officially for sale. No convincing was needed by them, "Just take my money".

My brother was home and able to install it both from reading the clearly written directions and hearing my brother's feedback everything was straight forward and to the point. The turn around for the tunes were pretty much next day.

There were 7 power options available to me on the tune which you have to use the flashing unit to install and only one can be used at a time. So no on the fly switching. But that's fine with me.

175hp
195hp
210hp
230hp
250hp
275hp
300hp

My truck is as stated in the title is a
2000 4700, t444e, 5 speed spicer with two speed rear end. All of which to my knowledge have 227k miles on it (Except obvious fluid changes and one rear end servo) with both welders on board and two gang boxes full the truck weight is just over 18k. (Today It was ran with just one welder and gang boxes empty so probably just over or under 17k)

Some minor things on the truck.
Factory down pipe to a 5" Donaldson straight through muffler to a 4" stack on side of truck.

A freshly rebuilt turbo. <- it's going to be getting a wastegate 1.0 housing. EDIT: I went with a KC300X stage 1 .83 housing.

Oil rail crossover.

Stainless bellowed uppipes.

Pyrometer and boost gauges.

Brand new water pump, radiator, and hoses

EDIT: photos not scaling.

Once I return from work later this year I'm hoping to go over the valve train, new single shot injectors, glow plugs, and finishing the regulated return.

Here is a short video sent to me of the truck with the 275hp tune. I had my brother back it down to the 250hp tune due to both the miles on the motor and wanting to limit the boost to below 30psi. During the end of which you can hear my father's laugher of joy as well. I can't promise any other videos for awhile as well. So for that I'm sorry as well.

https://youtu.be/nxAC9b3agoU

[Power Hungry]

Chris,

Thanks for posting up the video. That was awesome. I was enjoying just watching the truck scooting through the gears, but when the camera switched to the mirrors I got a huge smile. I was thinking, "I know where this is going." Of course, I was not disappointed. I was chuckling about the same time as your dad was.

In any event, that's a really nice build. I see a lot of work going into the truck and it's paying off. Heck, you've got a small fortune just in Klimat, but I bet it really helps quiet things down. Can't wait to see it all finished up.

Again, thanks for sharing and look forward to future updates.

Take care and God bless.

[Absolution]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

Chris,

Thanks for posting up the video. That was awesome. I was enjoying just watching the truck scooting through the gears, but when the camera switched to the mirrors I got a huge smile. I was thinking, "I know where this is going." Of course, I was not disappointed. I was chuckling about the same time as your dad was.

In any event, that's a really nice build. I see a lot of work going into the truck and it's paying off. Heck, you've got a small fortune just in Klimat, but I bet it really helps quiet things down. Can't wait to see it all finished up.

Again, thanks for sharing and look forward to future updates.

Take care and God bless.

Yes, the killmat absolutely helped remove a lot of the highway drone. I've also got some firewall noise blocker I need to finish installing when I get back. what's left I just turn up the sound system.....

This morning I've ordered a

4" powerstroke downpipe to cut and fab up for the international.

A wastegated housing and actuator

Comp Cams valve springs

I'm looking at a stage 1 rebuild kit for the bottom end that I can keep on shelf until I need it.

I'm also going to hold off on ordering new injectors until I get home so I'm not sitting on a core charge for months.

I personally don't like the smoke, (Even though my other truck on my page does), and all I'm looking for in this truck is a reliable and cool 300-350 hp in the end.

That's why I was so excited about the reflash tool. It's opened so many options for me. As before I was looking a DT446 NGD swap but I didn't want to move the transmission back and lose my center console.

[Power Hungry]

It's funny, because I'm not big on smoke either. We have worked very hard over the years to make files that run clean and strong. At one point in time, we did make files like Smoke Show and Lope Idle, but we've long since done away with those. In fact, we've taken heat from customers that wanted us to build those types of tunes and we've refused.

In your situation, we can certainly tone down the low boost fueling to eliminate that puff of smoke when laying into the throttle, but the downside would be a bit of turbo lag. It really comes down to the idea that those trucks need all the help they can get to start moving, so the compromise was to add a little more fuel in the low boost area to help get moving and get the turbo spooling. Of course, that was on the big file, so dropping down to level 4 or 5 would also help clean the exhaust up.

I'm certainly interested in hearing your thoughts on the drivability vs. smoke. Whenever you have some time, feel free to give us a shout and we can discuss it. Or, if it's easier, we can just plod on through here. At least then, other folks could benefit from the conversation.

Keep me posted.

[Absolution]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

It's funny, because I'm not big on smoke either. We have worked very hard over the years to make files that run clean and strong. At one point in time, we did make files like Smoke Show and Lope Idle, but we've long since done away with those. In fact, we've taken heat from customers that wanted us to build those types of tunes and we've refused.

In your situation, we can certainly tone down the low boost fueling to eliminate that puff of smoke when laying into the throttle, but the downside would be a bit of turbo lag. It really comes down to the idea that those trucks need all the help they can get to start moving, so the compromise was to add a little more fuel in the low boost area to help get moving and get the turbo spooling. Of course, that was on the big file, so dropping down to level 4 or 5 would also help clean the exhaust up.

I'm certainly interested in hearing your thoughts on the drivability vs. smoke. Whenever you have some time, feel free to give us a shout and we can discuss it. Or, if it's easier, we can just plod on through here. At least then, other folks could benefit from the conversation.

Keep me posted.

Well, that little bit doesn't bother me and I completely understand the prefueling. I probably should have just said smoke and not "the smoke", that amount to me was completely acceptable.

That being said if I get the 160 single shots and one of your hotter tunes 275-300. Do you think it would do decent in the mountains with the trailer or would I be looking at a different turbo, If that's the case what would you recommend? Since I've already installed new uppipes I don't really want to go to a T flange.

Also Would you recommend keeping with the stock size nozzles on the stage 1 injectors?

My other truck was running 5x.016s (now 5x.012 using it on property) and a k31 single with a ported head and some other odds and ends.. I built it when I was enlisted and I didn't have to tow anything. It just made a single hot pass then cooled down lol. I also daily drove it like this and would travel 1000 miles trips one or twice a year. But yeah, it doesn't pull any kind of trailer on the road.

[Power Hungry]

Honestly, the stock turbos seem to perform pretty well, especially when swapping to a 1.0 housing. Improves low RPM spool and still open enough to keep EGTs in check. My only recommendation would be to call DieselSite and order a Wicked Wheel for that turbo. Makes a noticeable improvement in airflow, particularly when pulling.

One advantage you have is that you are running a manual. EGTs are almost always caused by lugging the engine in too high of a gear. With the ability to just knock it down a gear or two and get the RPMs up, you can increase airflow through the engine which keeps the EGTs in a reasonable range. You could concieveably run a 38R turbo with a 1.0 or 1.15 housing if EGTs start getting unmanageable, but you're going to lose some bottom end as these turbos are slower to spool than the standard GTP38. I guess it all depends on the type of driving you anticipate normally operating the vehicle in.

On the Stage 1's, yes... I'm personally a big fan of keeping the nozzles stock. Unless you're spending a lot of time over 3000 RPM, stock nozzles don't have any problem discharging 160cc of fuel. On the Power Stroke counterparts, we regularly see 350-375 HP while still running the stock turbo. With appropriate exhaust (which you've already addressed), EGTs should be very manageable even as power output crests 300 HP.

The only real concern we really have on the Navistars is the rather anemic cooling system thermal dissipation. Most of these trucks run the split radiator/intercooler, and this can cause elevated operating temps at higher power outputs with heavy loads. You, however, are ahead of the game as you already addressed many of these issues with replacing the radiator (they get pretty cruddy inside) and the water pump. If your timing cover is the setup that has the coolant filter included, just make sure to change that regularly.

I hope this is helpful.

[KAMcustomsllc]

I have the same old truck but a little heavier. Full of tools, welder, crane. 4 door with 5 speed and 2 speed rear. Old railroad truck. I replaced the transmission last year because it was jumping out of forth. Wanted a 10 speed but didn’t want to buy a different pto for my crane and compressor so put the same style back in. Adrenaline HPOP and AD injectors. OEM had AB’s in it and was rated at 190 hp. Tried playing with the icp mods and map sensor but eventually bought the Orion. Stage 4 is plenty for 25k lbs on a 260k mile truck. It sits and idles at least 5 hours a day while I’m working off of it.

[Absolution]

Originally Posted by KAMcustomsllc

I have the same old truck but a little heavier. Full of tools, welder, crane. 4 door with 5 speed and 2 speed rear. Old railroad truck. I replaced the transmission last year because it was jumping out of forth. Wanted a 10 speed but didn’t want to buy a different pto for my crane and compressor so put the same style back in. Adrenaline HPOP and AD injectors. OEM had AB’s in it and was rated at 190 hp. Tried playing with the icp mods and map sensor but eventually bought the Orion. Stage 4 is plenty for 25k lbs on a 260k mile truck. It sits and idles at least 5 hours a day while I’m working off of it.

Same exactly even down to the mileage (It was a crane truck) , Mine is an old CSX out of JACK Florida. Today I did play around with the 300hp setting since I have the new turbo hooked up. I touched 1,300 once lugging it in 5th high. If I go back on the turnpike I'm going to drop it back down to 250hp. But after all my fun today I do plan on purchasing a water methanol system.

[Power Hungry]

Originally Posted by Absolution

Today I did play around with the 300hp setting since I have the new turbo hooked up. I touched 1,300 once lugging it in 5th high. If I go back on the turnpike I'm going to drop it back down to 250hp. But after all my fun today I do plan on purchasing a water methanol system.

1300 on Level 7 while lugging isn't too bad at all. That actually might be a tad better than I would have expected. What RPM were you lugging at? These engines like airflow and, as you well know, the only way to achieve that is with some RPM. Keeping it above 2400 under heavy load will certainly help the EGT issues.

Water/Meth is a good solution for high EGT under heavy load. Use the smallest nozzles possible to keep EGTs in check. I've always liked the setup Snow Performance offered. It is programmable based on boost and/or EGT, and can control two stages. This is the kit I normally install...

Snow Performance Water/Meth Stage 3 Kit

Keep your methanol percentage low... <10% and you'll be fine. It'll give you just enough hit to offset any loss in power from the water, and still drop EGTs pretty well.

Overall, it's looking like you're making headway. Keep us posted as things progress. Always like a good build.

[Absolution]

It was in 5th high she started off at 2000 rpm and the foot in the floor the egts were a slow climb so the new turbo is keeping up. She seems like the 300hp would be drivable in the flat. Today I'm thinking of hooking up one of the trailers and putting it under a real load which will give us a better idea.