A Political Statement

[Jackpine]

This is a reply to Lynn in the New Member Forum -

Lynn, I too am passionate about politics, probably more so than ever due to the last eight years. Please understand, I am a 20-year, Vietnam Era, Air Force combat pilot veteran, so I have some inkling of your feelings and sense of Duty, Honor and Country. My Father was a career Army officer, who fought in WWII, Korea and the early days of Vietnam. I am all too aware of the fact that we in the military are used when the political process breaks down, usually through inept or overly ambitious government.

I don't really agree that Bush was pro-military at all. Look at the way the Administration treated the returning wounded veterans. Look at the way they sent troops into harm's way with substandard equipment. Notice how they subverted the role of the military (who are trained to "break things") into a nation-building role more suited to a police force and NGOs. Look at how they overtly approved "extraordinary measures" and then hung the poor grunts who implemented those measures out to dry for using "excessive force" while completely ignoring worse behavior by civilian contractors and intelligence agencies. Look at how personnel are on third and fourth deployments, and how those deployments have been extended. Remember how the Administration effectively cut off support to the effort in Afghanistan so that it could pursue a more "profitable" adventure in Iraq. I could go on and on, but, hopefully, I've conveyed the idea. And please, I'm not some "bleeding heart" Democrat. I have much the same angst against President Johnson for the inept way he first got us into, and then tried to micro-manage the Vietnam War effort. Johnson "invented" a reason to escalate activities in Southeast Asia, it was an event in the Gulf of Tonken that didn't even happen. He allowed his Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, to ignore virtually every request made by his military commanders. He forced the Air Force to conduct bombing raids on low-value targets at predictable times of the day using routes that were well known to the enemy. And finally, look at how his Administration failed to support returning veterans.

I don't mean to say that these two Presidents were all bad. President Bush made huge, successful efforts toward combating disease in Africa. President Johnson created the "Great Society" that probably resulted in the election of President Obama.

But, in my opinion, Bush was not a leader. In my opinion, Johnson was not a leader. We desperately need a LEADER, and that leader WILL have to make very tough decisions. That leader must be willing to acknowledge mistakes, because he will make them. That leader must recognize that he doesn't have all the answers so he must listen to his advisers and understand the full consequences of his decisions. He must keep to the moral high ground and not let the ends justify the means. That leader must govern from the center of the Country, not from the center of his political party. That leader must work with the other countries in the world and not try to dominate them.

I am optimistic about President Obama. I think President Obama would have listened to Colin Powell. I think he would not have allowed a Donald Rumsfeld to ignore the advice of General Tommy Franks. I don't think he would have abandoned the effort in Afghanistan for something more (politically) lucrative.

And, I think he WILL support the military.

- Jack

[88Racing]

Great job Jack.

Lars

[ChuckD]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Look at the way the Administration treated the returning wounded veterans.

Well said Jack.

I am proof. Look how they offer the RIRP while overseas but when you hurt and sent back to the states, you are no longer eligable for it.

[lynn2437]

Jack

I think that while intentionally trying to be unbiased in my reply, I have unintentionally shown my true feelings towards the two party system that is ruining this country. I have no doubts that Bush was inept in many things regarding this war. I also have no doubt that for all his faults he also did great things that he will never be recognized for. The media in this country has created a stigma around the Bush admin. and has made him a scapegoat for many things. At the same time, as gun shy as I am on the Obama admin, like you, I only wish him wisdom and grace to do well by his supporters and this country. I can only hope for his unwaivering support in the military.

Don't get me wrong Jack, I know you feel the same about this country and I appreciate your service. I will always have the upmost respect for our retirees and vets. I too have had many family members in active duty service. Look, everybody supports their party for issues that affect them and I support mine because of the way they affect my life and my family. I was raised very conservative and that mindset has brought me values that I could never live without.

The corruption in our political system has this country at a breaking point, something must give. This country will either fail or succeed together. Everbody is on the same team. I support all levels of the party that I honestly believe can bring this country back to greatness and I don't think it will be Obama.

[Jackpine]

The enduring great thing in this Country, Lynn, is that we are free to voice our thoughts. I respect your opinion and am willing to accept that there are no pat answers. You and I and your Wife and countless others have sworn to protect and defend this freedom. It is NOT "unpatriotic" to disagree, in fact, I would argue that it is unpatriotic to blindly agree.

I am a registered Republican, who, in 2000, would have happily voted for John McCain. But, I was not given that choice, so I voted for Al Gore. In 2004, I voted for John Kerry, and, last year I voted for President Obama.

I also voted for Ronald Reagan, who used to be a Democrat, but stated that his Party had deserted him. I feel much the same about the GOP.

Yes, we are on the same team, and, we can disagree.

The next four years will be interesting, to say the least, and I look forward to seeing what happens. I remain hopeful.

Peace, Brother!

- Jack

[lynn2437]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

The enduring great thing in this Country, Lynn, is that we are free to voice our thoughts. I respect your opinion and am willing to accept that there are no pat answers. You and I and your Wife and countless others have sworn to protect and defend this freedom. It is NOT "unpatriotic" to disagree, in fact, I would argue that it is unpatriotic to blindly agree.

I am a registered Republican, who, in 2000, would have happily voted for John McCain. But, I was not given that choice, so I voted for Al Gore. In 2004, I voted for John Kerry, and, last year I voted for President Obama.

I also voted for Ronald Reagan, who used to be a Democrat, but stated that his Party had deserted him. I feel much the same about the GOP.

Yes, we are on the same team, and, we can disagree.

The next four years will be interesting, to say the least, and I look forward to seeing what happens. I remain hopeful.

Peace, Brother!

- Jack

I agree about the feeling of desertion and I remain stubbornly optimistic about the resurgence of the conservative voice. My stubborness probably comes from youthful exuberence, but with age comes wisdom and I could change my mind on a large amount of things.

I also want to say thanks for a well mannered discussion on our disagreement. That is one reason that I like this forum. Just because we don't see eye to eye on certain things doesn't mean we can't get along and learn from each other passions. To many people are too quick to fly in to a rage over other people's opinions.

Take care
-Lynn

[ChuckD]

I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but for the life of me I dont understand how the American people think that just 1 person can change it all. I also feel that there should be term limits in Congress, that way new fresh different voices will be in. They could be better or worse than the previous but new nonetheless and with limits in place then someone else can take a turn.

[secondarychaos]

I must say this is the calmest, most rational political discussion (note that I didn't say arguement) I've ever read on a forum.
I must say, Bravo for the levelheadedness.

[Jackpine]

Chuck, I think you're pretty bright. I doubt one person CAN change anything. If, however that one person can work with others (the real art of politics, and diplomacy) then change can occur.

The whole issue of term limits is a very mixed bag, isn't it? On one hand, by not limiting them, we risk reelecting some very corrupt, but "clever" politicians over and over again, because, to be honest, many people don't really do much research before voting. On the other hand though, if you get someone GOOD in office, you don't really want that person kicked out just when he/she has finally learned the ropes and is able to contribute. And, with seniority comes power and influence - and from a good representative, that's a good thing.

Secondarychaos, thanks for your observation. Part of our levelheadedness is due to the collegial atmosphere that Corey and Bill promote. We seem to be attracting people who are willing to share, rather than those who get off on "put-downs".

- Jack

[ccoll5]

I know, it is very calm, composed, insightful, and tasteful. I would hate to see this discussion on f150online haha.