E-85 tune for gas engine?

[PhqChevys]

I talked with Ford while I was there yesterday. The service manager and the guy at the parts counter told me that the parts used between the FFV and Gas versions of the truck are the same. They said that Ford uses the same parts during assemble to simplify the assembly process, there was only 2 exceptions, the in tank fuel pump and the computer calibration. Besides that, the injectors, fuel rail, fuel lines, ect. are all the same. Now, like I said, this is just what they TOLD me, no other verification than that, I may be wrong, may be right...just passing on information...

[Jackpine]

Sounds like it COULD be true, and if so, it supports those who say E85 can be run in any truck. Wonder what the fuel pump difference is though?

- Jack

[PhqChevys]

Probably the seals in the pump. That's the only thing I could think of...maybe the impeller...who knows. I bet that once they deplete the inventory, every part will be FFV except the tune. But, like I said...that's just what they told me...

[chester8420]

I have run E-85 in my non FFV 1997 F150 for several years. About 150,000 miles or so... It still runs good at over 300,000 miles, and I was on my stock fuel pump until about 1,000 miles ago. After 9 yrs of farm use it was about time for a fuel pump anyway, so I don't really attribute its failure to E-85.

There are a few issues with running E-85 in a non-ffv truck.

The truck doesn't crank as easily on a very cold day.

You have to gradually convert from gasoline to E-85. You can't just run the gas tank dry and switch to E-85... The non ffv computer program does not allow the trim tables to be adjusted aggressively enough to make the instantaneous jump from 14.7:1 to 9:1 all at once. Also, depending on your vehicle's "adaptability", you may lean out above 4,000 rpm. This will produce a noticable "flat spot" in your hp curve.

You will most likely get a CEL. The codes you get will tell you if the conversion was successful.... If you get 2 lean codes only, then it was successful... If you get "O2 sensor lack of switching" errors, and circuit malfunctions, then it was not successful. It will still run, but it will be running very lean, and have no power.

It would take a long time for me to explain all the issues that arise with running E-85 in a non ffv. Some vehicles (like my dad's 2000 V10) convert over with no problems. Some have more difficulty. But it is possible, and by my experience, it doesn't hurt it.

If you want to try a bit, just mix a 50/50 e-85/gasoline mixture. Most newer vehicles will run on that with no problems and no CEL.

[Jackpine]

Good information chester! Thanks for posting it.

- Jack

[muns53]

I'm glad to hear you're able to do ethanol tuning!! From everything I've read, it's not a matter of components at all; all modern cars can run on ethanol. Just like diesels were originally intended to run on farm-based oil crop fuels, the gas motor was designed to run on farm-based alcohols. For example, the first Fords (Model A's, etc.) had adjustment knobs and levers in the cab that the driver could fool with to optimize the carberator based on the fuel he had access to. In the city, he was buying petroleum-based gas; in the country, he was buying alcohol/ethanol.

Ethanol is 106+ octane (depends on what blend), though and burns cleaner and cooler and more completely than gas, so it's actually a much better fuel. Engines running ethanol have almost no carbon build-up and last longer because of the lower temps. Most of the problems with fuel mileage dropping are a result of trying to use it in an engine optimized for a dirty, hot-burning, low-octane fuel (gasoline); but an ethanol-optimized engine actually produces better fuel mileage than the same engine optimized for gas; primarily because it burns more completely.

In the colder climates, a "cold-start" device helps get the motor running. There's a variety of ways to do it - propane/ether injectors; a small gasoline tank to start the motor on; or a glow plug device (like a diesel) to warm up the combustion chamber.

I'm in the process of building a micro-scale refinery (same basic process as moonshine; larger scale) to make ethanol and will convert my gas engines over to run on it after some experimentation. (Maybe I need to get another Ford vehicle so Bill can write the tune for it!)

If anyone learns further about component differences b/t flex-fuel and straight gas Fords, I hope you'll post more info in this thread.

[chester8420]

Good to hear somebody that supports ethanol. I know it isn't the best solution to our energy usage, but it is domestic, clean, renewable, non toxic(you can drink it!!!), almost carbon neurtral, and doesn't support Iraquis, helps the economy, it will work with a large portion of our vehicle fleet, and it is available now in large supply.

Our local ethanol plant sells the midds to cattle farmers after the ethanol is distilled, so it produces a feed supplement; and that helps make up some of the costs. The plant is a good thing in our area. We exceeded our Tyson contract by ~15,000 bushels this spring, and I'm glad the ethanol plant was buying corn. It's the first time we sold any to them, and they were paying $.40 above the market! They had a shortage because the train they were expecting was snowed in.

One rumor that is floating around is that it takes more fuel to make it, than you get out of it. Well, logic will tell you that it is a false statement. That would equate to around 400-500 gallons of fuel per acre @2 gallons/bushel. On our farm that would equate to 455,000 gallons of fuel for the 910 acres of corn crop alone. We don't use 50,000 gallons of fuel/year for all of our 4,000+ acres of crops, irrigations, personal vehicles, home heating, etc etc.