Edge/Gryphon Footprint

[JWBFX4]

Originally Posted by JackandJanet

Bill has talked about this in the far distant past. There is a counter?, version data value? something, left behind in the PCM each time it is flashed. As far as I know, this bit of information is not specific to the Edge/Gryphon/XCal/whatever, but can indicate that the PCM has been flashed more than the "authorized" Ford number of times.

Bill said the likelyhood of a dealer even having the equipment to check this is remote, as I recall. And the chances of Ford doing it are equally unlikely.

I've never heard anyone complain that Ford denied a claim because the PCM had been programmed, have you?

I suppose the nature of a failure might cause Ford to investigate further. If, for instance, you developed a window in your engine block from a piston rod being ejected, they might wonder how this destructive activity came about. But, for the ordinary stuff that seems to plague all Fords, it doesn't seem to be a factor.
- Jack (I finally got there)!

Well I would say that I hadn't heard it, untill this http://www.f150online.com/forums/200...g-ideas-3.html Post #43 is where he starts talking about the edge. Later goes on to say that he set it back to stock but left a footprint, therefore they would not warranty the bad injectors that they put in there in the first place. I know his truck is heavily modified(but I am sure the suspension caused them to go bad)but Ford did not want to put a recall out about it when discovered and now he has to pay for it. I dont want to get on a rant on what ford has screwed the consumer with , But I do love my truck

[88Racing]

Originally Posted by JWBFX4

Well I would say that I hadn't heard it, untill this http://www.f150online.com/forums/200...g-ideas-3.html Post #43 is where he starts talking about the edge. Later goes on to say that he set it back to stock but left a footprint, therefore they would not warranty the bad injectors that they put in there in the first place. I know his truck is heavily modified(but I am sure the suspension caused them to go bad)but Ford did not want to put a recall out about it when discovered and now he has to pay for it. I dont want to get on a rant on what ford has screwed the consumer with , But I do love my truck

I don't want to rant and rave like a webrat or a lemming here, but what bad deal for fx4life!

All because his PCM said he had a tuner and the injectors weren't covered.

What's next? They aren't going to cover anything because you have a tuner?

I hope someone can get a recall going on those darn plugs but wait you still have to pay for them because you have a tuner!

The ? That wasn't really answered is what if the used truck had a tuner on it and you the new owner didn't know about it?

The other thing are we going to have to disclose if the truck had a tuner on it when we sell it? So that liable will be brought back to the previous owner if warranty is null and void?

Lars

[JWBFX4]

Originally Posted by 88Racing

I don't want to rant and rave like a webrat or a lemming here, but what bad deal for fx4life!

All because his PCM said he had a tuner and the injectors weren't covered.

What's next? They aren't going to cover anything because you have a tuner?

I hope someone can get a recall going on those darn plugs but wait you still have to pay for them because you have a tuner!

The ? That wasn't really answered is what if the used truck had a tuner on it and you the new owner didn't know about it?

Lars

Yea I was wondering about the used thing also, but I assume it would only work if it was a "Certified Used Vehicle" by that dealer. I honestly don't think we will ever see a recall about the plugs, atleast I will not hold my breath.

I think it has a lot to do with how good your dealer is, they can overlook stuff like that when, they know there is no way a tuner broke your door handle . To tell you a little about my stealership...I needed to replace a brand new air filter that was just replaced one week before the oil change there

[Jackpine]

Well, that thread was a bit of an eye-opener, especially since I have an 05 too (with the injector letter). This thread was is in a forum that I don't frequent, so I did not see it. Also, quite recent - I wonder if it's the first that's come down this way?

I think, Lars, there might be a counter in the PCM. This would record the number of reflashes and if that number were greater than the factory authorized number of reflashes....

Then too, people have complained that their trucks failed emissions after returning the tune to stock (because the truck had not completed the needed number of drive cycles to clear codes that result in the emissions devices). Possibly they checked for those codes?

I wonder if you could be better off leaving the truck at the "tuned" level if you have to take it in for what seems a catastrophic failure? I think Bill would be our best source of information here. So, I've put the "dreaded" Help! to Bill title on this.

Things may have changed a bit due to the downturn in the economy.

- Jack

[JWBFX4]

Jack,

I am sure the downturn has probably had them cracking down on things and going by the book. And I understand that it could void you warranty if certain problems arise in the engine or tranny. But I really think Ford should have stepped up to the plate on this one, being that it is a known defect, but I guess I am not surprised because of the spark plug issue.

And also, since you have a 2005, did you receive the letter about the bad injectors? I know I have seen some people say they never got one, which makes me think it might just be trucks from certain plants, or it just got lost in the mail.

[88Racing]

What happened to the recall on the injectors? Whoop te do it was ford's fault to begin with!
Where did the Magnesson-Moss act come into play here? Unathorized access to ford's messed up pcm.

I thought I bought the truck and everything with it and also paid for a warranty! Yes warranties are in the price they just make it so you can't see it, and they roll the dice.
Lars

[SinCityFX4]

I only flash to stock when I go in for service as I got he ESP plan tossed in when I bought so they do all the service.

As for the guys that screwed on the injectors...ack They would have had to rmoved from the service dept with some crap like that.

Maybe Bill can pop in here and give a definate answer. This very question in my head is why I have never used teh canned tunes on any of the tuners....


Guess I am just paranoid..

[Power Hungry]

This is a repeat of the post I made on F150Online:



First, most of the performance gains derived from tuning come from modified timing tables. There's a little fuel tuning, but in most cases it's actually leaner than stock which means LESS fuel injected, NOT more. Also, when dealing with fuel tuning, we are talking about fractions of AFR (Air-Fuel Ratio)... Usually on the order of .2:1 of .3:1 change in AFR. This is not enough to cause any sort of damage to engines, injectors, or anything else for that matter.

By the same token, we've tuned low boost, forced induction applications using completely stock injectors with either raised fuel pressure, extended pulsewidth, or both. In these situation there has been no significant increase in injector failure (read that as none), provided injection pulsewidth stayed less than 85% to prevent the injectors coils from overheating.

The fact that dealers will often sell (and warranty) a vehicle with the very same types of modifications (lifts, gears, brush guards, pulleys, superchargers, and yes... even programmers) only goes to prove that it's not the modification they have an issue with, it's the fact that THEY didn't sell it and THEY didn't make any money on it. That's a piss-poor attitude.

For the dealer to come in and say that the programmer cause your injectors to fail is complete crap. Also, to blatantly disregard a warranty claim as well as a recall notice is grounds for legal action. Of course they know most people won't pursue it because it's often not financially feasible.

Second is in regards to programmer "footprinting". Using the exact same tools the dealerships use, there doesn't appear to be evidence of anything that specifically identifies that a "programmer" has been present on a vehicle, at least on the F150. Mode 6 Freeze Frame data does get cleared during a programming session and I am currently validating what other situations (disconnected battery, etc) will clear Mode 6 data.

It is my understanding that the dealerships do use Mode 6 data along with the ubiquitous P1000 DTC as evidence of programmer presence to be used as grounds for warranty denial. However, if there is a reasonable argument that these conditions can exist outside of the use of a programmer then the dealership cannot deny a warranty out of hand.

As I've said before, it's a shame that this is what it has come to. Prior abuses to the warranty system have now made it difficult for legitimate claims to be covered. What Ford (or any other manufacturer) needs to realize is that their vehicle sales are often driver by consumers who like to modify and customize their vehicles. If the consumer is going to face hassles on warranty claims every time they bolt on some little (or big) item, they are going to spend their money elsewhere.

I've been tuning Fords for just about as long as there has been Ford tuning and I've seen bad things happen to engines and transmission as a result of poorly tuned calibrations. The fact is that most of today's tuning simply isn't aggressive enough to cause problems that wouldn't have occurred on their own without tuning. But as it was said, warranty doesn't pay as well as cash repairs so what do they have to lose by denying a warranty? In the short term it costs them nothing, but ultimately they will lose customer loyalty and future sales.

Take care.

[SinCityFX4]

THANX Bill!!

[88Racing]

Thank you Bill!

Your the man!

Lars